Captivator S2 vs Orbit Shifter - Page 3

Originally Posted by mojomike 

What sort of output do you need and how big is your room? For me, one ported passive Captivator + a PB13 (both tuned to 15hz) easily exceeds my needs. I sometimes listen at reference levels and my room is over 6000 cu. ft. and is wide open to the whole house. The subs are set a few db hot. If I had them 10db hot, I'd probably need more subs. As it is, I've got more headroom than I know what to do with.


If you figure out that the S2 will give you enough output, then it should be the better choice with a flatter bottom end.

Originally Posted by digital911 

I also have a 6000CF room (non sealed) and am trying to decide between one OS ULF or one CapS2
I love to listen to music with good quality bass and same for movies. So I need 1 sub to perform both duties at a very high level.
I had a PC13U for a short period of time but returned it because it wasn't nearly strong enough for my room, for my taste, especially in the mid and upper bass department.

With that said, can y'all recommend where I should go? Its worth noting I will not be able to truly corner load either of these subs.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by lukeamdman

RMK was gracious enough to give a demo of his system tonight. I was in the Sacramento area for work and sent him a PM.
There were two things I wanted to hear, and both happen to be JTR products… The Triple12, and the OS. It just so happens, he recently sold the T12s and has bran new Neosis for LCR. Even better!
First off, his theater room is awesome. Aesthetically pleasing, spacious, great acoustics after what he’s done to it, and the AT screen is just beautiful. My theater room, called “the dungeon”, or “the scary room” by my wife, looks even worse now, and that shouldn’t be possible. Thanks a lot, Rob…
Anyway, on to my impressions, and I think Jeff did a fantastic job with the Neosis. I’ve been dabbling in the DIY world, most recently working on building crossovers, and for the 12s in the Neosis to blend in as well and they do with the CD, Jeff is really doing a quality job with that crossover. Just amazing. I don’t want to guess as to how many hours he put into R&D for the crossover for this speaker! Highs were crisp and clean, not harsh, and the mids blended seamlessly and were very detailed. At several points in the demo Rob exceeded +5db in the main volume, and Neosis didn’t even blink. Never sounded strained or distorted ever.
As for the bass, I feel I’ve heard the best of what’s out there, and I wasn’t expecting to being impressed by two 18s, regardless of their configuration. I was definitely wrong! For starters, the obit shifters are HUGE. Pictures don’t paint the whole picture here. Second, having never heard a horn loaded sub before, they do have a “unique” sound to them, and I’m saying that in a completely positive way. Great punch, great detail, and great sub 20hz response and tactile feel. I know for a fact that at certain points in the demo the orbit shifters exceeded 125db, and they did so effortlessly. Considering I have quad LMS 5400s and 16kw worth of power feeding them, I didn’t expect two 18s and half the power to accomplish what they did. I may have to build four “gjallarhorn” enclosures for my 5400s now
Thanks for the demo, Rob!

Originally Posted by MKtheater 

WE need to keep things in perspective, when demoing dual OS's it is like having an 8x18 system from 20hz and up and will always trump a 4x 18 sealed system as spl and punch is concerned.

Originally Posted by MKtheater 

Don't get me wrong, I love horns and was using them before many(crappy pro audio) but they did get me 110 dBs with the famous pulse scene. The trade off is money for the low end. A horn gains ou about 10-12 dBs within it's path so it is like having four drivers and the cap driver being 30mm of x-max is only down 3-4 dBs from the LMS driver at 38mm(10hz). At 20hz and above the Cap driver could very well be very close to the LMS driver. The 34mm UXL-18 has more output above 20hz than the LMS 5400.

Originally Posted by RMK! 

Thanks for the perspective and that is consistent with what Luke said. In an attempt to "keep things in perspective" he (Luke) is using a very expensive and powerful sub drivers (LMS 5400's) in his sealed subs and is powering them with one of the LG clones (a working one ). That is going to yield different performance characteristics than an array of inexpensive 18" drivers.

In the end it is all about what you hear and feel and what you are willing to do and spend to get there.

Originally Posted by edoggrc51 

I'd love to hear your system too bud!

I think one thing to also consider is what type of foundation your theater is built on. IIRC, Luke's on a slab of concrete and felt that there was very little tactile feel in the ULF range. In his case it would make total and complete sense to try out a couple of LMS horns and maximize their potential in the frequency range that benefits HIS setup/room the most. I have pretty much the same sub system he has, and in MY room (wooden structure) the ULF's definitely have a tactile presence you can feel.

Originally Posted by RMK! 

I agree, my HT is on a second story suspended floor and even though it is reinforced (extra joists and bracing) it still moves a lot. BTW, you are welcome to visit any time ...

Originally Posted by lukeamdman 

If I had to pick between the S2 and OS, I'd choose the OS.

One of my sealed dual 5400 towers would best an S2 (it should because of better drivers and twice the amp power), but quad sealed 5400's just couldn't compete with dual OS above 25hz. Honestly, it wasn't even close.

Originally Posted by MKtheater 

I already stated why.

Originally Posted by MKtheater 

See the bold in your statement, this means you need the OS for sure! I will put this in easy to see terms for you. Per Jeff, the S2 has 6 dBs more output than the OS below 20hz and the OS has 6 dBs more above 20hz. What this means is the OS is like having 4 sealed 18's(cap1 sealed) above 20hz and 1 sealed 18 under 18. The S2 is two sealed 18's throughout the band. RMK!'s system is like having a 8x18 system above 20hz and why we know what he feels up there with DIY but that leaves him with only two sealed 18's below 20 hz and we still have 8x18. The difference of course is more cost for that extra low end which has always been the case. The OS is an easy way to get 4x18 over 20hz in one tidy() package. Seriously though, 4 18's would take up about the same plave but now you have to pay for the 3 extra drivers anyways. The advantage is the low end and if you want the low end in your size room you need to spend(or DIY)

Originally Posted by lukeamdman 

If I had to pick between the S2 and OS, I'd choose the OS.

Originally Posted by digital911 

Would 1 OS outperform the the PC13U in ULF? under 16hz

Same for the CAP2, will it outperform the PC13U in ULF? Yes

I was somewhat satisfied with ULF on the PC13U, so if either the Cap2 or OS will do just as good, or better, that's acceptable. I know for sure the mid and upper bass will blow away a PC13U from either the Cap2 or even more OS. Correct

Then the next question becomes preference with sound quality. I have no idea what a horn sounds like. I know I like sealed subs over ported though... So the extra output of the OS is good, but will I like the way it sounds, I have no idea. Any input?

Originally Posted by MKtheater 



You probably will like them better, just a hunch

Originally Posted by Frohlich 

I have an honest question for you guys about subwoofers since you understand the science of it much better then I do. All this capability the OS has above 20HZ...isn't it just headroom. In other words, if you are playing reference level for example and the scene has bass which requires 75db at 30hz and all three subwoofers (SVS 13, S2, OS) can play that loud, then the fact the the OS COULD play it much louder does you no good since the scene doesn't call for it? Is it just theoritical headroom that never gets tapped into unless you really crank the volume knob?

Originally Posted by MKtheater 

Yes, this is true but the THD is much lower on the speakers an or subs that don't have to work hard. This is why I test my THD in my room for all speakers and I bet some people would be surprised how much THD they actually have and say they love their loud and clean system. Some Distortion can actually sound good and create a fullness to the sound where others just makes things sound awful. The OS from 22hz and up is like having 4 sealed cap drivers so the THD is low. I would not use it for high level 10hz stuff but then again I would never just use a single sealed driver for anything. See, the OS is a sealed chamber horn so it acts like a sealed 18 under the corner of the horn, I really like these designs. The cinema F-20 was designed like this as well but the Cap driver is much better for sealed purposes.

Originally Posted by Frohlich 

I have an honest question for you guys about subwoofers since you understand the science of it much better then I do. All this capability the OS has above 20HZ...isn't it just headroom. In other words, if you are playing reference level for example and the scene has bass which requires 75db at 30hz and all three subwoofers (SVS 13, S2, OS) can play that loud, then the fact the the OS COULD play it much louder does you no good since the scene doesn't call for it? Is it just theoritical headroom that never gets tapped into unless you really crank the volume knob?

Originally Posted by RMK! 

Well since we are being honest and with a solid understanding that the question wasn't meant for me, think of it this way. A Yaris will go 90mph (down hill). Would you rather be in a Yaris going 90mph or an M5?

Simply adding Yaris's will not help ---

J/K