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Bose 901 VI, havent found the right amp - Page 6

post #151 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They include them as a high priced option, to appeal to the same crowd that their home systems do, ie., those who have succumbed to the hype.

Hype
(def):
A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.
exactly! overpriced and cleverly marketed to the uneducated and bose brain washed idiots
Edited by smasher50 - 2/17/13 at 7:45am
post #152 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They include them as a high priced option, to appeal to the same crowd that their home systems do, ie., those who have succumbed to the hype.

Hype
(def):
A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.
To be fair my Bose system came standard on my vehicle and it's really not too bad. It's not stellar by any stretch, but its leagues above the Harmon Kardon system in my other car which sounds awful.

But it is much easier to design a system for a fixed environment. Every car that comes off the line will have the exact same passenger capsule, whereas everybody's rooms in their homes are quite different from each other.
post #153 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They include them as a high priced option, to appeal to the same crowd that their home systems do, ie., those who have succumbed to the hype.

Hype
(def):
A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.

I think Porsche owners are a little more discerning and demanding than you give them credit for.

And your quote about "hype" appears to ignore my own points and objections regarding Bose's marketing-heavy emphasis, quashing of meaningful critiques, overly high prices in general, and my unfavorable impression of their home theater system.
post #154 of 201
The Bose system I had in my '99 Infinity I30 was pretty decent. The one in my '07 M35 is not.

But the brands seem to be all over the place on their car systems. The HK system in my 330i was mediocre at best; while the B&O system in the Volvo I test drove about 8 years ago was excellent.

Even the Lexicon system in the Rolls was good, but not mind-boggling... though I didn't have a lot of time to adjust that one.
post #155 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

The Bose system I had in my '99 Infinity I30 was pretty decent. The one in my '07 M35 is not.

But the brands seem to be all over the place on their car systems. The HK system in my 330i was mediocre at best; while the B&O system in the Volvo I test drove about 8 years ago was excellent.

Even the Lexicon system in the Rolls was good, but not mind-boggling... though I didn't have a lot of time to adjust that one.

You make a good and valid point. The systems do vary even within one maker's range. My point was that buyers of Porsches and Alfas (amoong others) are pretty demanding, and unlikely to accept crummy sounding systems.

So, your chauffeur wouldn't let you spend much time adjusting the audio in the rolls? biggrin.gif
post #156 of 201
Is it just me, or there seem to be a lot of new member posting about BOSE in these speakers treads defending their beloved BOSE:rolleyes:

Ray
post #157 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Is it just me, or there seem to be a lot of new member posting about BOSE in these speakers treads defending their beloved BOSE:rolleyes:

Ray

If you're referring to me, I've been reading and posting on AVS for a long time.

And I hardly qualify as a fan, in general, of Bose.
post #158 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

So, your chauffeur wouldn't let you spend much time adjusting the audio in the rolls? biggrin.gif

He can be very grouchy. :P

It was a dealer who, despite me making it clear that we were about one zero out of my price range, was eager to drive me around.
However nice you *think* that interior is... it's nicer.
post #159 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

He can be very grouchy. :P

It was a dealer who, despite me making it clear that we were about one zero out of my price range, was eager to drive me around.
However nice you *think* that interior is... it's nicer.

I can only imagine, having never ridden in one. But the Brits really know how to make nice interiors, and the suspension on the Rolls must be amazing. What was it like to drive?
post #160 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Almost every forum discussion I've read or participated in regarding Bose always ends in a conflagration, or ­just smolders for a long time. Given this I nevertheless cautiously wanted to post an opinion.

It seems to me that the truth here is elusive, in that everybody is right in some sense. Or put differently, not every Bose product falls into one category.

I do agree with the criticism regarding pricing policy, absence of testing, and the difficulty of reviewers being able to freely investigate and critique the speakers, much of which seems to derive from Bose itself.

I was not at all impressed with the last Bose home theater system that I listened to. It was all high-frequency and appeared shrill to me, and like the one reviewer said, the system was situated in its own "island" seemingly placed away from any other potentially competing system on purpose. I also found that dialogue and placement of sounds was less than precise, probably because lower midrange was being handled by the subwoofer.

I also do not think that Bose products in general are priced at all competitively, given the performance of many of their products, and that there is a huge emphasis on marketing versus information and testing. As a result, many people buy Bose without thoroughly investigating the many, and often better alternatives. People that love music, whether audiophiles or not, are pursuing some sort of fidelity in sound reproduction, and are better served when some standards, benchmarks, or parameters are part of the consideration process. A marketing heavy approach is, in this sense, an obstacle to that knowledge.

However, the reviewer for Tone Publications makes some good points, though I'm not sure about his suggestions regarding wire gauge. This latter point doesn't constitute enough to judge him so harshly.

As he pointed out, Bose automotive systems can sound quite good, and it is improbable that higher end automobile manufacturers would include them if they were entirely without merit. I don't think that in the acoustical environment of a car a lot of the "rules" that apply to normal acoustical environments easily translate.

Then there are the 901s, which I don't feel are terrible speakers at all, but rather an interesting design with some real acoustical benefits. The Tone Publication reviewer's suggestions regarding room placement and raising them above the height of the included pedestals might indeed provide a more focused sound with more precise sound placement.

I've heard them sound very good, and the benefit in the design to me is its avoidance of crossover. Placed correctly the 901s can provide a very silky sound in the way that other crossover-less systems achieve.

Thanks for your reasoned and thoughtful post. Of course, I don't agree with you on a number of points, but I am glad you contributed to the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

fwiw,go to the tone website and look under staff for jeff dorgay the writer of the bose review. hes nothing more than a photographer who worked and got fired from some big box audio store. he sure has the credentals i'm looking for to review speakers that i want to buy.

I promise that if you look up every audio writer, print or online, you will find many whose "day job" is not in audio. I personally think he is a very good writer and that he puts out a very nice web-zine. It doesn't follow that I have to take his every opinion as gospel. I do happen to agree with the overwhelming majority of what he said about the 901's. He was much more fair in his assessment than J. Gordan Holt was in his STEREOPHILE review from the mid-seventies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They include them as a high priced option, to appeal to the same crowd that their home systems do, ie., those who have succumbed to the hype.

Hype
(def):
A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.
exactly! overpriced and cleverly marketed to the uneducated and bose brain washed idiots

Inflammatory, insulting, bigoted and myopic. There is nothing to be gained by discussing anything with people who can not be reasonable and respectful.
post #161 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

Thanks for your reasoned and thoughtful post. Of course, I don't agree with you on a number of points, but I am glad you contributed to the thread.
I promise that if you look up every audio writer, print or online, you will find many whose "day job" is not in audio. I personally think he is a very good writer and that he puts out a very nice web-zine. It doesn't follow that I have to take his every opinion as gospel. I do happen to agree with the overwhelming majority of what he said about the 901's. He was much more fair in his assessment than J. Gordan Holt was in his STEREOPHILE review from the mid-seventies.
Inflammatory, insulting, bigoted and myopic. There is nothing to be gained by discussing anything with people who can not be reasonable and respectful.

There really is no place in an intelligent discussion for ad hominem attacks. Rather, people should agree or disagree on points, for the purpose of advancing the discussion. But schoolyard brawls unfortunately happen too often on forums.

You know, it's interesting to read reviews for the 901s on Amazon. You have a variety of individuals, some without much background in audio, and others who are well seasoned. There are more good reviews than bad.

One thing to Bose's credit. I have read the experiences of a number of 901 owners who have had an unusual degree of out of warranty support. Bose has stepped up and replaced deteriorating materials on a number of their older models, and upgraded equalizers for a very modest fee. Not many companies do that.

Apropos of that, after buying a costly computer, and told that I could extend the warranty after my first extended warranty ran out, I have had the experience of how a large and well known manufacturer can cares little for real customer support, or customer loyalty.
post #162 of 201
I sold my first pair of 901's (Series IV) to a friend. Years later, when the surrounds rotted, Bose took care of it. Way past the warranty, but they did the right thing. You have to admire that.

As for sound, some people like them, some don't. That's one reason there's so many loudspeakers on the market, I guess. Something for everybody. I've had many over the years and enjoyed them all in their time and place. From little Radio Shack Minimus 77's to Klipschorns. And for the last 3+ years I've enjoyed the heck out of my second pair of 901's.
post #163 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

I sold my first pair of 901's (Series IV) to a friend. Years later, when the surrounds rotted, Bose took care of it. Way past the warranty, but they did the right thing. You have to admire that.

As for sound, some people like them, some don't. That's one reason there's so many loudspeakers on the market, I guess. Something for everybody. I've had many over the years and enjoyed them all in their time and place. From little Radio Shack Minimus 77's to Klipschorns. And for the last 3+ years I've enjoyed the heck out of my second pair of 901's.

Have you tried what the Tone reviewer suggested? (raising them, and pulling them away from the walls)
Because of the high degree of reflected sound, placement really is more critical with 901s than with most other speakers.

As for taste (and opinion), you're right. Each to their own...and tolerance.
post #164 of 201
He's right. I actually used to have 4 901's in the 90's. They have a lot of low end.

Now I hope the guy enjoys his. I do.

I'm not here to hate on Bose.
But I never liked the reflection technology or how they sounded even equalized. Speakers are designed with more than one driver for a reason. A full range driver cannot reproduce the audio spectrum efficiently.

That said. They are powerful! 9 x 3.5" = a 31.5" driver.
post #165 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post


Inflammatory, insulting, bigoted and myopic. There is nothing to be gained by discussing anything with people who can not be reasonable and respectful.
why thank you, those are some of the nicest compliments i've got in a long time.and have a nice day. see i can be reasonable and respectful
Edited by smasher50 - 2/18/13 at 3:28am
post #166 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainVideoJW View Post

He's right. I actually used to have 4 901's in the 90's. They have a lot of low end.

Now I hope the guy enjoys his. I do.

I'm not here to hate on Bose.
But I never liked the reflection technology or how they sounded even equalized. Speakers are designed with more than one driver for a reason. A full range driver cannot reproduce the audio spectrum efficiently.

That said. They are powerful! 9 x 3.5" = a 31.5" driver.

I'm not too sure that's correct. Mathematically, just going by straightforward area calculations (pi*r*r), we get the following:

Area of a 31.5" driver = 17.75 * 17.75 * pi = 779.31 square inches
Area of a 3.5" driver = 1.75 * 1.75 * pi = 86.59 square inches

Of course, if each of those 3.5" drivers had something like nine times the excursion of the 31.5" driver, then they might move the same volume of air.

Can you help me to understand the equivalence you've stated? I don't think I am grasping it very well. To my naive way of thinking, nine 3.5" cones would have just about the same area as a 10.5" cone.
post #167 of 201
So, if I understand correctly, with the Bose 901 you have to put the Drivers looking to a wall. I haven't heard it, but wound't that make them sound completely lifeless and muddy? If you want to read a book, you don't light up the wall...
post #168 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Have you tried what the Tone reviewer suggested? (raising them, and pulling them away from the walls)
Because of the high degree of reflected sound, placement really is more critical with 901s than with most other speakers.

I read you have to hang them from the ceiling to get the best out of them:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

My pair of 901's are hanging 18" from the ceiling, 17" from the front wall and 37" from the side walls.
post #169 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I read you have to hang them from the ceiling to get the best out of them:

I have heard they sound good underwater too...
post #170 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I have heard they sound good underwater too...

What I've been trying to figure out is how does one determine that their Bose 901s sound best hanging 18" from the ceiling? I can just imagine people spending $1200-$1400 for 901s, drilling holes in them for eye hook connectors, and then drilling some kind of holes in the ceiling and installing eye hooks to run chains through to lower them up and down to find that optimal height. Then, how does one easily angle them toward the listening position? And of course if that in-home demo doesn't go well for you, I supposed Bose takes them back with holes drilled in them?

Then I'm trying to imagine people convincing their wife to let them hang them in the living room. Maybe, "Hey, honey. They'll look like hanging flower baskets.We can glue plastic plants on top." Somehow, it just doesn't seem to fit with the aesthetic that Bose projects with all their marketing. LOL
post #171 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD in NJ View Post

I'm not too sure that's correct. Mathematically, just going by straightforward area calculations (pi*r*r), we get the following:

Area of a 31.5" driver = 17.75 * 17.75 * pi = 779.31 square inches
Area of a 3.5" driver = 1.75 * 1.75 * pi = 86.59 square inches
.
The actual diameter of the Bose 901 driver cone is 92mm, giving an area of 66 sq cm. Nine have an area of 594 sq cm, roughly equivalent to one twelve inch driver. As for 'They have a lot of low end.', with an Fs of 83Hz and Qts of .36, that's simply not possible. Bose may lie about what the 901 can do, but the science never lies.
post #172 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

What I've been trying to figure out is how does one determine that their Bose 901s sound best hanging 18" from the ceiling? I can just imagine people spending $1200-$1400 for 901s, drilling holes in them for eye hook connectors, and then drilling some kind of holes in the ceiling and installing eye hooks to run chains through to lower them up and down to find that optimal height. Then, how does one easily angle them toward the listening position? And of course if that in-home demo doesn't go well for you, I supposed Bose takes them back with holes drilled in them?

Then I'm trying to imagine people convincing their wife to let them hang them in the living room. Maybe, "Hey, honey. They'll look like hanging flower baskets.We can glue plastic plants on top." Somehow, it just doesn't seem to fit with the aesthetic that Bose projects with all their marketing. LOL

I would like to see the measurements of before the ceiling and after the ceiling. Unless the speaker is made to be installed in the ceiling and designed and engineered from the ground up with this purpose in mind, I cannot imagine how having something hanging above your head improves imaging. This is coming from someone who has ceiling speakers installed in my family room that are designed for in-ceiling use (angled woofer and tweeter). IMHO, they still image poor. But that is what the media room is for.

I do like the hanging plant idea... smile.gif
post #173 of 201
Edited
Edited by Badouri - 2/21/13 at 6:24pm
post #174 of 201
I had my 901's hanging from the ceiling many years ago. Got a lot of headaches. They hurt when walked into. eek.gif
post #175 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skytrooper View Post

I had my 901's hanging from the ceiling many years ago. Got a lot of headaches. They hurt when walked into. eek.gif

Well, in a good action movie, wouldn't that be more immersive?eek.gif

But more seriously, I think the idea is to put the 901s on stands higher than the pedestals, but not necessarily near the ceiling, unless you're in a club environment.
post #176 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Well, in a good action movie, wouldn't that be more immersive?eek.gif

That, and for headbanging music :groan:
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

But more seriously, I think the idea is to put the 901s on stands higher than the pedestals, but not necessarily near the ceiling, unless you're in a club environment.

There was a bar I went to quite a bit in the late 80s/early 90s that had the 901s mounted hanging from the ceiling throughout. In that situation, I think the Bose diffusive sound worked very well because it felt like the music was coming from everywhere. Almost never felt like one single speaker was directly radiating at you. However, I would not be surprised if there was a cheaper way to achieve the same effect.
post #177 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainVideoJW View Post

...Speakers are designed with more than one driver for a reason. A full range driver cannot reproduce the audio spectrum efficiently.

There are fullrange single driver solutions, with the Walsh driver being one of the most interesting. Ohm no longer makes the fullrange Walsh units, choosing instead a hybrid design...using the Walsh with conventional drivers.

But these folks have created their own versions of the original fullrange Walsh units:

http://hhr-exoticspeakers.com/HHRhome.htm

Some years ago ago I heard the Ohm A speaker (20 hz to 20 khz from a single driver). Amazing!!!

They were power hogs, but the HHR-Exotics are, apparently, much more efficient.
Edited by taichi4 - 2/18/13 at 9:51am
post #178 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

If you're referring to me, I've been reading and posting on AVS for a long time.

And I hardly qualify as a fan, in general, of Bose.

No I was not:)
Just refering to all the sub 10 or so reply:cool:

Regards


Ray
post #179 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

No I was not:)
Just refering to all the sub 10 or so reply:cool:

Regards


Ray

Understood.

Hail Alberta, Canada...and Canada in general. I've always had a good time there...as far East as Nova Scotia,
and West as Toronto (not far west). Now I live in LA, yet have never been up to Western Canada. wink.gif

How's the healtcare plan in Alberta?
post #180 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickVogeli View Post

So, if I understand correctly, with the Bose 901 you have to put the Drivers looking to a wall. I haven't heard it, but wound't that make them sound completely lifeless and muddy? If you want to read a book, you don't light up the wall...

Indirect lighting is certainly not uncommon.

And heavy use of reflected sound is something you'll find in a lot of designs (Ohm, Martin Logan, Magipan, half of everyone's surround speakers, etc). I'm not defending the 901, but the premise that reflected sound can add positively to the experience is reasonable.

And I'm not sure of how they do the crossover: but since their drivers are about big enough that a single one could do midrange; it's possible that the wall-facing drivers are mainly for LF extension.
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