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Bose 901 VI, havent found the right amp - Page 3

post #61 of 201
1/31/13 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

Wow! You know why all speaker manufacturers have not tried to copy the Bose 901! Although that's not quite true, I don't know of any lately. What an amazing gift of divination you are blessed with! Do you do birthday parties? And to think, I always figured it might have something to do with patent infringement and lacking the engineering and/or manufacturing resources to pull it off. Silly me.

Your last statement (I bolded it) is one of the first things you've said that I agree with. (lol)

As for the rest, US patent term on the original Bose 901 design would have expired by now. Been over 40 years since they were released. Nothing preventing anyone from copying the design.

Anyway, a logical person is just impressed by the design and SQ of the Bose speakers, nor all of your arguments. Spock is not impressed:

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post #62 of 201
1/31/13 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The fact that this forum is devoted to audio science, not audio hype, leaves both 'good' cables and Bose objects of derision, along with those who promote them.

Have you ever thought about making a 901 knockoff, Bill? Put slightly better drivers in it that don't need the fancy EQ. Manufacturer it in China very cheaply, and then sell it at half the price biggrin.gif
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post #63 of 201
1/31/13 at 10:29am
Okay, when someone shows me professional measurements that show Bose playing low (and high for that matter)...then I will believe it. The measurement posted on line (I know, may not be accurate) suggest otherwise!
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post #64 of 201
1/31/13 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

Really? I guess it depends on how you would define "taking issue":

Bill Fitzmaurice said "The 901 will be in production as long as there are fools willing to buy them."
Flying_Fool said "The biggest problem is that you're thinking the 901's are going to sound good. The simple fact is that they are pretty lousy speakers. Sorry."

IMO, the latter statement is taking issue with "liking Bose" and doing it in quite a rude manner. The first statement is obviously just downright insulting.

As for " Making unsupportable claims about the performance of Bose speakers", Who did that? Dadox and myself have simply related our experience with and opinions about their performance. Is it numbers and graphs you need to feel good about your loudspeakers? Personally, I am much more concerned with how a speaker sounds to my ears than with how it measures.


That explains a lot. I suspect that if you listened to better speakers in your room or saw the measurements of the Bose, it would be an eye opener. Since our ears are subject to all kinds of bias, you really can't tell how your speakers perform without the measurements. Estimates of bass output based only on personal experience are notoriously unreliable.

Measurements are also highly beneficial to set up speakers properly. Without them, you're feeling around in the dark.
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post #65 of 201
1/31/13 at 11:17am
Someone here sleepin' with an oscilloscope under his pillow, perhaps?
Hey guys, don't be silly, I've lots of loudspeakers in my life, but the Bose 901 remain a must for me.
Like them, dislike them, everyone has different taste about listening music.
But (regarding me) I'll never go bashin' into a Jbl's thread, a Vandersteen's thread or whatever. It's right to write here "901, is not for me", wrong to write here "Bose 901 are s**t, they sounds no good!"
Of course, you don't mention the word s**t, of course...but, is this not what you really intendin' for sure?
rolleyes.gif
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post #66 of 201
1/31/13 at 11:37am
We generally don't like Bose because they put $3 drivers in their cubes, have a "bass module" that doesn't go very low, nor does it go high enough to cross over with their cubes, and then they have the audacity to call it audiophile quality and charge a fortune for it. When a manufacturer puts out garbage and purposely rips off the consumer, that is when I start having a problem with them. Monster and Bose are two of the worst offenders in this regard.

If Bose only charged a couple of hundred bucks for their stuff I would be fine with that because that is more in line with what they are worth.
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post #67 of 201
1/31/13 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Have you ever thought about making a 901 knockoff, Bill? Put slightly better drivers in it that don't need the fancy EQ. Manufacturer it in China very cheaply, and then sell it at half the price biggrin.gif
Such a design without a low-level EQ would be extremely inefficient. Speakers of that size will have significant disparity in efficiency between the preferred range and the lows to which they are being pushed. To get a reasonably flat frequency response; a passive crossover would need to bleed off *lots* of heat (or perhaps offer some extremely complex resistance load?). Far better to adjust back at low-level.

OTOH: Why not do the entire crossover active? Maybe they do. I'm not sure.

You still have the opposite problems. Drivers that size will have problems with very high frequencies as well.
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post #68 of 201
1/31/13 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

Such a design without a low-level EQ would be extremely inefficient. Speakers of that size will have significant disparity in efficiency between the preferred range and the lows to which they are being pushed. To get a reasonably flat frequency response; a passive crossover would need to bleed off *lots* of heat (or perhaps offer some extremely complex resistance load?). Far better to adjust back at low-level.

OTOH: Why not do the entire crossover active? Maybe they do. I'm not sure.

You still have the opposite problems. Drivers that size will have problems with very high frequencies as well.

Why not make it roughly the same shape, make it an array in the same way, but put tweeters across the top and then 5" drivers across the bottom? Make it slightly bigger, and call it "Titan 901." LOL

Caveat: I know nothing about speaker design smile.gif
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post #69 of 201
1/31/13 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

We generally don't like Bose because they put $3 drivers in their cubes, have a "bass module" that doesn't go very low, nor does it go high enough to cross over with their cubes, and then they have the audacity to call it audiophile quality and charge a fortune for it. When a manufacturer puts out garbage and purposely rips off the consumer, that is when I start having a problem with them. Monster and Bose are two of the worst offenders in this regard.

If Bose only charged a couple of hundred bucks for their stuff I would be fine with that because that is more in line with what they are worth.
Who really cares what you think! Why don't you share your knowledge with the guy and answer the question. And when you say "We" who are you referring to? I don't care for Bose, but the guy asked for advise and you avoided the question and purely just trolled the thread. Sometimes you have to work with what you got. I am so tired of people around here going out and buying equipment and now they think they are audiophiles. Get a grip.
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post #70 of 201
1/31/13 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadox View Post

I've lots of loudspeakers in my life, but the Bose 901 remain a must for me.
Like them, dislike them, everyone has different taste about listening music.

There's nothing wrong with that.

I like scifi B movies and scifi/fantasy pulp fiction and really enjoy it. But I would not expect a majority of people to enjoy it the way that I do. That's because I have sense enough to realize it's not equivalent in quality to academy award winning films or literary fiction, or even much regular mainstream stuff. Sometimes one has to recognize that in something they like, they just don't have good taste. wink.gif
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post #71 of 201
1/31/13 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Who really cares what you think! Why don't you share your knowledge with the guy and answer the question. And when you say "We" who are you referring to? I don't care for Bose, but the guy asked for advise and you avoided the question and purely just trolled the thread. Sometimes you have to work with what you got. I am so tired of people around here going out and buying equipment and now they think they are audiophiles. Get a grip.
i was just trying to tell him why we don't like Bose and how they differ from other mainstream manufacturers such as Vandersteen, Deftech and the others. They put out decent to high quality products where people can argue the merits of their strong and weak points. Bose puts out crap and convinces people through marketing that they are good. Big difference.

Also, I didn't avoid his question. He said which amp will make his 901's sound good and I gave him my honest opinion that the amp wasn't what was making his 901's sound bad.
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post #72 of 201
2/1/13 at 2:45am
A simple pdf...Here.
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post #73 of 201
2/1/13 at 3:42am
fwiw, back in the later '80's a neighbor a few doors down was throwning away a pair of 401's. so for shits and giggles i asked why hewas throwing them away and he replied that the sound was very distorted and probably the drivers were going and that he had them for about ten years and thought that they have reached their lifes end and went out and bought new speakers. so i always was curious about the bose line of speakers and took them in back to my garage and pro ceded to take off the grills which are not removeable and i know why now. bose didnt want you to see the crap drivers you get for(back then)$600. first the paper woofers and their looked like a 2 oz magnet ,where totally shot. the foam all away around was discentergrated. and the tweeter if you want to call it that looked like something a toy manufactuer made . i just sat back and laughed and proceeded to put them back to the curb. that cured my curiosity very quick and thats why i laugh when people buy this crap or try to defend it.just my 2 cents
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post #74 of 201
2/1/13 at 4:23am
Very annoying contributes to this thread. Off topic indeed!
Seems that this thread as been derailed from his tracks.
Is this an argument speaking of good electronics to pair with 901s or what?
Please guys, return to Station for a good restart. wink.gif
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post #75 of 201
2/1/13 at 5:00am
I had a pair of 901 speakers, the series five I think. They were okay but not audiophile quality. I used a Yamaha MX1 amp with 200 watts. I was fooled buy their marketing hype back then, their marketing BS was so good some inexperienced people thought Bose 901's were the best available!

As soon as I replaced them with a pair of NHT 2.9 's I was enlightened! Luckely it wasn't hard to find another sucker to take em off my hands, sold em for $450.00.
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post #76 of 201
2/1/13 at 5:28am
I think, it's not important if you had a pair of 901, a pair of Nht or whatever...But the placement! It's a critical point to respect what the user manual reports!
901s don't accept approximate positions, very precise installation (from side and back walls) are required to obtain best results (no obstacles near them also).
And (some idiots, I know, have done it!) the V shaped MUST be pointed to the rear wall! These are not the 802s! And active equalizer must be put into the right circuit!
Then any good amplifier can bring to us through a 901 well placed his best quality-sound.
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post #77 of 201
2/1/13 at 5:34am
this thread was started in march, 2012....so the OP got his answer months ago and this thread should have died, months ago.
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post #78 of 201
2/1/13 at 6:07am
But it's still an open thread or not! Is this an excuse to go vs. Bose? Explain this to me! Many people here contribute to make it to die. frown.gif I'm here to made my (positive) contribute, give an advice, based on my personal experiences, so many members here can destroy literally every enthusiasms. And this is no good...
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post #79 of 201
2/1/13 at 6:22am
Well, you were the one who revived it, and it wasn't long before you turned it into the lame "Bose is great" song and "why do people have to pick on Bose" dance. Either you are incredibly naive, or you knew that was going to happen. This is not the right community for that.

And now this griping about the AVS community comes across as extremely exaggerated and disingenuous. There are thousands of other things to talk about on AVS. Literally, thousands of active threads. If you were indeed that naive and don't like the reaction you got here, go find a different , non-Bose conversation to join in on. But don't be the skunk who smells up the party and then complains that nobody else likes the smell rolleyes.gif
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post #80 of 201
2/1/13 at 9:27am
No thanks, I prefer to stay here. tongue.gif
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post #81 of 201
2/1/13 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Well, you were the one who revived it, and it wasn't long before you turned it into the lame "Bose is great" song and "why do people have to pick on Bose" dance. Either you are incredibly naive, or you knew that was going to happen. This is not the right community for that.

And now this griping about the AVS community comes across as extremely exaggerated and disingenuous. There are thousands of other things to talk about on AVS. Literally, thousands of active threads. If you were indeed that naive and don't like the reaction you got here, go find a different , non-Bose conversation to join in on. But don't be the skunk who smells up the party and then complains that nobody else likes the smell rolleyes.gif

Awesome - I might steal that for my sig!
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post #82 of 201
2/1/13 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Awesome - I might steal that for my sig!

Go right ahead smile.gif

How do you add a signature line? For some reason, I haven't been able to figure out how to do it with the new version of AVS. I'm sure it'll be a doah! moment when I do (lol)
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post #83 of 201
2/1/13 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Go right ahead smile.gif

How do you add a signature line? For some reason, I haven't been able to figure out how to do it with the new version of AVS. I'm sure it'll be a doah! moment when I do (lol)

Go to "My Profile" near the top of the page
Scroll Down.
Click "Edit Signature"

Doh! tongue.gif
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post #84 of 201
2/1/13 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Go to "My Profile" near the top of the page
Scroll Down.
Click "Edit Signature"

Doh! tongue.gif

Never looked down that far. LMAO
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post #85 of 201
2/1/13 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadox View Post

I think, it's not important if you had a pair of 901, a pair of Nht or whatever...But the placement! It's a critical point to respect what the user manual reports!
901s don't accept approximate positions, very precise installation (from side and back walls) are required to obtain best results (no obstacles near them also).
And (some idiots, I know, have done it!) the V shaped MUST be pointed to the rear wall! These are not the 802s! And active equalizer must be put into the right circuit!
Then any good amplifier can bring to us through a 901 well placed his best quality-sound.

I had them set up right, no obstacles. I tried tweaking the positions till I was half nuts, and gave up. I just accepted the performance for a while and then moved on. If you can get the 901 to sound great and satisfy you than that's the main thing. Enjoy them!
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post #86 of 201
2/1/13 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

fwiw, back in the later '80's a neighbor a few doors down was throwning away a pair of 401's. so for shits and giggles i asked why hewas throwing them away and he replied that the sound was very distorted and probably the drivers were going and that he had them for about ten years and thought that they have reached their lifes end and went out and bought new speakers. so i always was curious about the bose line of speakers and took them in back to my garage and pro ceded to take off the grills which are not removeable and i know why now. bose didnt want you to see the crap drivers you get for(back then)$600. first the paper woofers and their looked like a 2 oz magnet ,where totally shot. the foam all away around was discentergrated. and the tweeter if you want to call it that looked like something a toy manufactuer made . i just sat back and laughed and proceeded to put them back to the curb. that cured my curiosity very quick and thats why i laugh when people buy this crap or try to defend it.just my 2 cents
I am not a Bose fan, but the drivers having paper cones is not an indication of their quality. There are many very fine and expensive loudspeakers that use paper cones. It is a great material for speaker cones, stiff, light, and when properly doped, moisture resistant.
And the foam surrounds on virtually every brand of speaker from that era rotted, once again not just an issue of Bose quality.
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post #87 of 201
2/2/13 at 1:13am
Well, I'm not here to make discussions about technology, measures and whatever. But, about paper cones. I say, cellulose.
Cellulose is more natural and musical that other futuristic solutions. Kevlar, titanium, etc.
I see many manufacturers returning to old solutions from the past. And of course in the '70s all speakers were create using natural fiber (as many musical instruments). About the foam's problem, last 901 Series VI MkII has a new improved driver, no foam, and a new type of cone.



This image. taken personally from 901VI mkII by a friend of mine.

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post #88 of 201
2/2/13 at 1:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post

I am not a Bose fan, but the drivers having paper cones is not an indication of their quality. There are many very fine and expensive loudspeakers that use paper cones. It is a great material for speaker cones, stiff, light, and when properly doped, moisture resistant.
And the foam surrounds on virtually every brand of speaker from that era rotted, once again not just an issue of Bose quality.

Yet, most manufacturers of high end speakers choose other materials than what Bose uses. If paper is so great, I'm surprised we don't see it on every speaker. The fact remains, Bose charges thousands of dollars for their speakers and more than a few people have disected dozens of Bose models and found the cheapest components and build quality known to man.
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post #89 of 201
2/2/13 at 6:06am
Yeah, I used to sell Bose speakers, and I'll tell you, they make their speakers as cheaply as possible. I still have a pair of 301s in my garage. In my opinion, the 301 was probably the best speaker Bose ever made. They sound fine for what they are, but I would never claim they are high end of audiophile quality.

I used to have a pair of 201s that I used as rears in my surround sound setup, after a couple years, the cheap paper faux-wood "veneer" (basically a sticker) on the back started to peel off from them. Also, Bose is one of the few manufacturers to still use spring clip terminals on the back of their speakers, as far as I know. Not exactly high end technology.
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post #90 of 201
2/2/13 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadox View Post

Well, I'm not here to make discussions about technology, measures and whatever.
I am. If you can't provide proof of your claims you're in the wrong forum. The 'S' in AVS does stand for Science.
As for the Bose 901 driver, this is the equivalent to the driver that they use:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-922

Bose gets theirs for $5 each. There are nine in the 901. That's $45. The entire cost of building a 901 is less than $150. And now you know why Amar Bose is a Billionaire.
Quote:
If paper is so great, I'm surprised we don't see it on every speaker.
In all fairness, there's nothing wrong with 'paper', which is correctly referred to as pulp. It's used in over 75% of drivers.
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