Bose 901 VI, havent found the right amp - Page 4

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

I am. If you can't provide proof of your claims you're in the wrong forum. The 'S' in AVS does stand for Science.
As for the Bose 901 driver, this is the equivalent to the driver that they use:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-922

Bose gets theirs for $5 each. There are nine in the 901. That's $45. The entire cost of building a 901 is less than $150. And now you know why Amar Bose is a Billionaire.
In all fairness, there's nothing wrong with 'paper', which is correctly referred to as pulp. It's used in over 75% of drivers.

Originally Posted by MrEastSide 

Are you saying that the entire drivers of these 75% are made from paper/pulp or they're partially made from it?

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

Entirely. Pulp is actually one of the best materials available for cones. In some higher power applications, like subs, it may be reinforced, but the vast majority of cone drivers don't need any more stiffness or strength than that of pure pulp.

Originally Posted by MrEastSide 

That would seem like a cheap design as well. Why wouldn't every speaker manufacturer simply use this then? Why do they even use all the other weird materials they do?

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

As for the Bose 901 driver, this is the equivalent to the driver that they use:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-922

Originally Posted by r3zon8 

I picked up a set of used Bose 901's series 6 with EQ recently, the seller threw in an American Audio amp(info below). The setup sounded great, i was very very impressed and it fit my taste.


The bad...this amp is rack mountable and has 2 80mm fans that run on full blast as soon as you power it on. When the music is blasting you dont notice it, but in movies, its just too loud. So i started searching for a new amp.


I was recommended a Crown amp and I picked up an xls 'drive core' 1500.


The sound from these amps(i tried both 1500 and 3500 models) are nowhere near the sound i was getting from the AmericanAudio unit.


im really at a loss as to what amp to pair up with these speakers. or better yet, what specs should i be looking for when it comes to choosing the right amp for a set of Bose 901's.


Thanks!


American Audio VLP-600
http://www.adjaudio.com/ProductDetai...&Category=Amps



Crown XLS 2500
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xls_drivecore.htm

Originally Posted by Espo77 

I can't see any reason why you would need anything more than the 180 per channel NAD amps I mentioned above due to the high efficiency of the 901's.

Originally Posted by DonH50 

It was an ugly-sounding amp...

The EQ curve looks like a big smile, or at least it used to... .

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

That depends on the room and listening volume, as the 901 has very low sensitivity. It doesn't show up on their specs, such as they are, but once you apply the mandatory signal processing the actual effective sensitivity of the 901 is less than 80dB.
It was more obvious with the original passive network, which sucked up power like mad. One selling point of the original pro-sound 801 was that they were rated for 'unlimited' power'. That's because at the time even 200 watt amps were rare, and the passive network sucked up about 9dB of the amp output, so even 500w couldn't get them to high output levels. Eventually Bose came out with their own 1800w amp to power 801s, an eighty pound four space monster, which when coupled with 801s through the passive network gave the same dB output of standard PA speakers driven with 200w or less.

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

In cases where pulp that's not reinforced works perfectly well the only thing you accomplish with reinforcing it is to increase the cost. This would be a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. More expensive materials can have some advantages over pulp, and if you're willing to pay the price, go for it. But to say that pulp is 'cheap' is like saying everyone should drive a $50k plus car, because anything less than $50k is 'cheap'.

Originally Posted by MrEastSide 

I didn't mean cheap as in, they sucked. I just meant cheap as in, cost-effective.

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

I am. If you can't provide proof of your claims you're in the wrong forum. The 'S' in AVS does stand for Science.
As for the Bose 901 driver, this is the equivalent to the driver that they use:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-922

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

Bose gets theirs for $5 each. There are nine in the 901. That's $45. The entire cost of building a 901 is less than $150. And now you know why Amar Bose is a Billionaire.
In all fairness, there's nothing wrong with 'paper', which is correctly referred to as pulp. It's used in over 75% of drivers.

Originally Posted by dadox 

That driver is a fake! Avoid them!

Originally Posted by dadox 

That driver is a fake! Avoid them!

There is a also a reason why we don't see published measurements of their speakers.. Because Bose would sue whomever published them, and we all know Bose does everything they can to avoid publishing measurements.

Originally Posted by dat56 

...I listen to live music as an audiophile and I use the experience in judging the quality of reproduced sound. Live is the only valid "measurement tool" as far as I'm concerned...

Originally Posted by dat56 

Now why should that be? Am I inexperienced with audio, after owning Advents, ESS amt-1b's, Klipsch Cornwalls, Amrita Reference Standards, K-horns, and then the long procession of speakers already mentioned? The facts would tend to say that I'm not .

Originally Posted by dat56 

Thanks for posting the link to the article from the European hi-fi magazine, Dadox. Very interesting. I always enjoy finding historical writings on my favorite classic audio designs, especially the Bose 901 and the Klipsch Heritage line.

In fact, trawling the internet for Bose-related stuff is how I originally got sucked into the life-draining experience of defending my Bose 901's to the Bose-haters who inhabit this forum. It was a thread much like this one started out being. Some poor unsuspecting soul landed on this forum thinking he's going to get some help with a question regarding his Bose speakers and BAM...he gets informed by the audio cognescenti here that all things Bose are horrible and that they, the OP's, are either poor ignorant lost lambs or total idiots for having any of their products....or words to that effect. So, being the internet-traveling Prince Galahad I am, I naturally plunge into battle for the sacred honor of my beloved 901's.

Did someone just say "beloved 901's"? Why yes, I believe they did! And it seems to have been little old me. Why would I say that about something that is the object of so much derision and ridicule by the all-knowing, all-seeing "experts" who troll these parts? Well, I'll tell ya.

The Bose 901 gave me my man-cave back. Everything I had tried in it previously sounded unsatisfactory at best. After finally attaining what was supposed to be my life-long speakers (klipschorns) and a dedicated room for them I was distressed to discover they just didn't sound very good in my purpose-built music room. Major downer, indeed. So I tried B&W 703's...and subs. Better but no go. Still lifeless sound and lumpy, weak bass.

I finally gave up on the room and moved the 703's to the family room, where they sounded very good. But the family room was...the familys' room, so I longed for my comfy old music room / man cave. after a few years of trying to find happiness with a long succession of different speakers in the family room (the B&W's, Mo-Fi's, Energys, Polks, klipsch la scala II's and RBH's, I decided to try my old friends, the 901's in the music room. Voila! Bingo!! Golly Gee!!! They sounded wonderful in that troublesome acoustic. That was four years ago. I've been off the loudspeaker merry-go-round ever since.

Now why should that be? Am I inexperienced with audio, after owning Advents, ESS amt-1b's, Klipsch Cornwalls, Amrita Reference Standards, K-horns, and then the long procession of speakers already mentioned? The facts would tend to say that I'm not .

Do I not know what live music sounds like? Well, I don't go to a lot of concerts anymore, but I've been to a number over my lifetime. Ronstadt, The Eagles, The Beach Boys, Macca, The Doobies, The Daredevils, Elton John, The Dirt Band, Billy Joel, Elvis Costello, etc. (Yes, I'm a relic from the 70's.) And I continue to hear good live music occasionally, and when I do I always think about what I'm hearing. I really do. I listen to live music as an audiophile and I use the experience in judging the quality of reproduced sound. Live is the only valid "measurement tool" as far as I'm concerned. Measurements may be have their place in designing speakers and concert halls, but how something sounds to my ears, in my room, with my music is all that matters to me when it comes time to buy speakers and or set them up. I measure too, but it's just a tool. The ears are the final judge.

I know I'm rehashing some ground here, but sometimes you have to keep working the ground over and over in different directions to get the seedbed just right so the seed can sprout and grow. So that's what I'm doing. Maybe some will grow in the barren ground of the AVS forums.

To the heart of the matter... Believe it or not, some people, even experienced audiophiles / music lovers really do love Bose 901's! Even though we know it's not the audiophile-approved thing to do...or at least to admit to doing. We love them because of the way they sound and the way that sound makes us feel. Cheap parts? I don't care. If Amar Bose can get this kind of performance with cheap parts, then bless his heart for doing so. It only makes the performance all the more amazing, and an amazing testament to his engineering brilliance. If you don't like the sound, who cares? There's lots of other speakers out there for you to pick from. Just don't knock mine. Is that too much to ask?

Originally Posted by crussader 

However, you have convinced me that Bose has it place.

Originally Posted by flyng_fool 

The OP was looking for an amp that would make his 901's sound good and I was a horrible person for suggesting it was his speakers that were the problem. Sorry DAT, but regardless of what you believe, I actually was trying to help him. Now if he's dead set on his 901's and he thinks a different amp is going to make them sound different then I'm sorry because it went from being able to help, to being a lost cause. And the commencement of beating a very dead horse.

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

It does, in a landfill.

Originally Posted by cel4145 

You are a speaker designer, Bill. Do you think this mod would make Bose 901s sound better?

Originally Posted by cel4145 

You are a speaker designer, Bill. Do you think this mod would make Bose 901s sound better?



Am imagining buying a broken pair of 901s, making this mod, and claiming emphatically it makes the 901s sound better than any speaker out there. Who could argue? Claims about Bose SQ are not backed by science