Options To Get Down To 10 Hz - 15 Hz?

budget, space, and spl considerations required.

with $1,500 per sub, and assuming multiples, why stop at 10hz? Honestly with a budget like that you have a WHOLE lot of options, and if you are willing to give up the space that two DTS-10's would take up, that opens the door even more. So far the DTS-10's are third on my list for lower extension, my LLTs second, and my current sealed setup 1st for the fact that it handles the whole bandwidth better...

FP14000 or 2
2 enclosures
each enclosure with 2x uxl-18

Go sealed or ported if you're looking for extension below 15Hz... horns just aren't the best option there.

I wouldn't mix and match... then you have to integrate the two different types together, which can be a pain and a half.

Not's got the right idea. If I were chasing 10Hz again, I'd probably do multiple 18's in sealed boxes. Horns can be done that low, but you'll lose more space that way than sealed or ported boxes.

A good affordable version would be quad Dayton RSS380's (15" sub for ~$170 each) and a single or dual Behringer ep4000's. Build a single sealed box for each. Anything from 20-24" cube. Fits your budget and would extend down low but doesn't really peel your face off with SPL. If these were all co-located and power with at least 250w each, you'd see SPL of 120dB or greater from 30hz and up before you room contributes. Everyone has their own idea of what loud is and four of these drivers would get pretty close and would beyond ultimate for 99% of the people out there looking for a nice subwoofer system. Problem is most of us around here are crazy bass heads and want more. This would be a decent start though.

I haven't seen you comment on what you have owned or own now.

Clone. You can find my thread about that with all the info.

Me? I compromised. See signature - I have down to 15Hz at reference or better at listening position. 14Hz is apparent, but not very. That's about all I can even expect in my room - the drop ceiling tends to cause problems much below that number. DTS-10's would perform much the same as what I have now, I'm completely certain. The real challenge is in the fact that my room is open to the rest of the house... it takes some serious SPL from my horns to make me happy as a result. Back when I had only one, I had it running full out to get 118-120dB at listening position. This usually meant >126dB at one meter.

In other words, chasing 10Hz for me would be a futile effort. I'm renting, so I can't do anything about the drop ceiling, and on concrete floors so anything that low would have to push some serious SPL to even be perceived.

So, I told myself to be happy with 15Hz. And I am, at least for now.

I like this idea, and adding more would not be incredibly expensive. These drivers can also be used as woofers due to low Le in case they need to be re-purposed. I have 3 right now, slowly building my way to eight......to replace my dual THTs....which get me to 15-16Hz at 10dB below reference.

JSS

When someone tosses out the 10-15Hz number, my reflexive answer is sealed. Lots of sealed. Horns are impractical at that size, and your budget allows enough drivers to make sealed a reality so you don't need a huge ported enclosure to chase that number.

What I would suggest is huge sealed enclosures. You have a false wall planned, so plenty of room behind to build a pair of huge sealed enclosures. As box size increases for sealed, amp power requirements go down. That means lower cost for amplifiers, lower heat generated and lower power compression, and a better chance of absorbing backwave harmonics. Considering that an IB is the ideal implementation of a sealed enclosure, if you can't do that then get as close as you can with a sealed setup.

In an ideal world where a unit of everything costs the same, it would be much preferable to have twice the sub drivers and half the amplifier power. Not an ideal world though, so tools like winisd help to find the optimum ratio for your budget. Consider that if the enclosures are large enough a driver like the Fi IB3 18" may work.

Do some thinking and winisd playing. The drawback is less ability to optimally place subs for room modes. As long as the enclosures are still mobile you have room to move them along the front wall. Often one in the corner and one several feet from the other corner works well. And if the enclosures are very tall you can have a good vertical distribution as well. You could consider saving room in the budget for a single strategically placed smaller sealed sub in the room for problem solving if necessary.

First draft, I'd model two or three IB3 18's per side and see if you can spare the room for appropriately sized enclosures.

Eight Dayton HF 15's ($1360).
Four refrigerator style or dual-opposed boxes two HF 15's in each box.
Each box 10 cubic feet, wired in series to 8 ohms.
Two sets of two boxes in parallel for 4 ohms per channel on your amp.
You can go with whatever 2000-ish watts x 2 at 4 ohms amp floats your boat.
I'd go cheap and get a Behringer EPX4000 (1250 x 2 @ 4ohm). ($400)

I'd go with UXL 18s. The dayton 15's lack displacement. It would take about 4 of them to equal a single UXL 18.

sd of dayton hf 15 is 830 cm^2, 14mm xmax
sd of uxl 18 is 1176 cm^2 with 34mm xmax


Vd of dayton is 1162 cm^3
Vc of UXL-18 is 3998 cm^3


my $0.02

Sadly, no. I bet a lot of us would pay for an app that offered the functionality of the Unibox spreadsheets, but people who could actually do the code don't seem to realize that.

For now the best way to model a subwoofer cabinet on a computer is to load Parallels or VMware, set up a virtual machine with an old copy of Windows XP and a copy of MS Excel, and download Unibox.

Very true. However, displacement isn't everything in a subwoofer system. In integral part, yes but there is more. In this specific case, the Dayton's are actually available and anyone can buy one.... or many.

Six of the IB3's would dwarf the displacement of eight of those daytons for about the same price. Not sure if enough enclosure space can be allotted though, and $1400 for just drivers seems to be pushing the stated budget either way. Four IB3's would reach the stated goal at reasonable spl.

There are of course other ways of getting there but I would opt for sealed. Big sealed brings down power requirements and has other benefits. And for sealed displacement is king. Those drivers sit at the top of the displacement t per dollar chart if you can swallow the box size.

As a reality check I'd target about 4x vas per driver to make them happy. With a three foot false wall depth that gives roughly a four foot wide by eight foot tall enclosure per side to hold two drivers per side.

That's big. Big enough to build two big stinkin horns... but they still won't go as low as your goals.

I think the Daytons will win in sensitivity and the ability overcome room nulls with placement options since he would have four cabinets rather than 2. The 8 Dayton's starting efficiency would be about 96db@ 1W to the dual UXL-18's 92db and the sealed response curve is very comparable. Also 300-350W each is a safe zone for the Daytons in terms of excursion.

I cannot argue the merits of the UXL-18's quality, it looks like a nice woofer though I have never heard one in person.


I'm pretty sure UXL-18's are 89db each; HF 15's are 87db each.

You're very mistaken and reading too deep into published sensitivity specs. Sensitivity is not equal at all frequencies. The UXL's will easily win, they have almost 4x the displacement. I'd go with 4 UXL 18s here, 2 per cab.

I was looking at the dayton hf yesterday and 8 of them will easily get you 110db at 10hz. That would still be cheaper than 4 UXL's by alot. And you would need alot less power too.

It all comes down to if one would rather deal with low power, large enclosure(s) or high power, small enclosure(s). One could easily power four Dayton drivers with an affordable high power amp such as the Behringer ep4k. Going higher power than the ep4k requires a bit more funds and excluding the LG clones, such an amp might not be within budget at all.

A single UXL18 could compete with several Dayton's on paper, for sure but as I said before, they aren't even available. Good luck getting one. If you can wait, all the power to you. More options.

Pick your compromise. It's the "best part" of DIY audio.

4 FI SP4's model really well to. Put two in a 10 cu ft box and run an inuke 6000 to each dual and you would have lots of spl. At least they are available.

Here's a visual for the OP.

What you're looking at is a single UXL-18 in a 95liter cab (a pinch under 3.5cuft) power with 2,500w. This is compared to four Daytion RSS380's in the same sized cab times four powered with 250w each.



You pick small and high powered or large and low powered. The quad Dayton choice would be the overall bargain unless space is the premium.

over 120db's is going to get you there. for sure. takes a lot of work and either space (for horns), sacrificing bandwidth for more output but not as much super low end, or a whole lot of power to get BOTH with a sealed system. You have the funds to acheive either of these it seems, just look around and decide which way to want to accomplish it