Options To Get Down To 10 Hz - 15 Hz? - Page 2

Kick you in the chest is the 50-80hz range.
Make you feel like your drunk and underwater is 15-25hz.

You should have both covered with either solution.

Just watch the nulls, in a room that size you will get lots of them, and not just
left right front and back, but height nulls too. You can sometimes find spots to sit
where just moving your head an inch one way or the other will put one ear in and
out of a null. The louder the output, the more pronounced the effect.

Multiple cabs and placement are the easiest way to deal with nulls. Of course it can also
create an inconsistent listening distance setting so there are a lot of variables you
should watch out for.

Scott, what modeling s/w is that?

Looks kind of like UniBox, but AFAIK that doesn't allow plotting different drivers on the same graph.

It IS Unibox.

What I use is a tab called, 'save graph'. Not sure how familiar you are with Unibox but at the bottom of the screen there are tabs for looking at just the sealed, vented, PR, bandpass along with a compare screen which will show you all the alignments of the same driver on top and a help screen that gives you information such as the cubic feet/liters of each alignment. In the save graph screen, you can save any of six designs (any alignment and/or driver/power combo) on the same screen. I use it all the time when comparing different models.

120dB at 15-25 makes me hungry, for some odd reason

Awesome.

shakes your intestinal walls lose more than likely.

My $0.02.

I ended up taking notnyt's advice as he is giving you here...other than going single cabs instead of dual opposed....

I'm going to end up spending roughly $5k on the subs for everything.

$2120 for 4 UXL-18s SHIPPED to USA from Canada

$1600 for 2 LG 14k Clone amps SHIPPED from China to USA

$13XXish for 4 eD CNC/built cabinets (magnetic grills, 20" cubes, 1" material, double baffled, recessed, roundovers, painted, driver-ready)
--shipping add $200?--

And $120? for 4 25' HOSA Speakon cables.

Bosso says a FP10k would drive 4 of these fine. It is a 4 channel amp...probably "good enough" if you want to save $800.

But as some would tell you...headroom, headroom....


If you do consider the UXL-18 you may have to be patient...Mark ships them as he gets his parts in. I hope to have another pair to finish my project by April but you never know.

Once you see the driver though, and seeing the measurements Ricci has already pulled, they are a solidly built, sexy looking driver.

Like everyone says, there is no replacement for displacement....


Using these 18s or 8 of the 15s either way you WON'T be disappointed with appropriate EQ. These ideas are better than 99% of those out there with home theaters for sub setups for getting your reference lows..

There will be no imaging issues from multiple subs spread around the room unless you run them way to high in frequency.

Nah, that's closer to the 125dB mark.

edit: new graphs below

No disrespect but that graph is worthless really. You have modelled a 1200 watt driver with 2500 watts of input power. The qtc of that dual is 0.545 which is really low. Lets say you can build them in a smaller box to give more input power then you can do the same with the daytons. The daytons in your model come in at a 0.912 qtc which is far too high and beyond EQ in my opinion to make enough difference to the overall sound. You can EQ a sub with a Q that high all you like, it won't sound the same as a sub with a much lower Q.

I really don't know how you can compare the HF with the UXL anyway. The params are totally different. The HF's need big boxes where as the the UXL's don't. Your better off comparing the HO's to the UXL's as they model better in smaller boxes. Yes the HO's don't model as good as the UXL's based on 5000 watts input power but then why would you put 5000 watts through two drivers which are rated at 1200 watts per driver.

I just copied what I read earlier for power to daytons, I'll remodel.

The Daytons were modeled with that power to keep them from going over xmax.

Also, nothing wrong with modeling for 2500w on a driver rated for 1200 unless the only thing you're going to be doing is testing with sine waves.

New graphs
5kw to 2 UXL-18s in 6cuft .634 qtc (red).
1kw to 4 390HFs in 14cuft .815 qtc (blue).

Exursion 390HF


Excursion UXL18


SPL

Not familiar enough apparently; thanks!!

Give me a break: 0.707 to 0.912 means a peak of about 0.8dB, trivially easy to equalise out. Any room you place it in is going to have a much larger effect.

I also agree with notnyt WRT power. I ran my small mains in my PA, rated at 200W with measured peaks of 600W and they never exceeded Xmax. Because the source material wasn't compressed, the average power to them was probably more like 50W at worst, well within rating. VCs of quality drivers are not like fuses.

You know what? I was originally under the assumption that the budget here was $1,000-1,500 total but I just re-read the first few posts and saw that it was that per sub with the possibility of two listed at that price range.

Okay. Well then... that certainly changes things.

Hhhhmmmmmmmm

the graphs posted now are

5kw to 2 UXL-18s in 6cuft .634 qtc (red).
1kw to 4 390HFs in 14cuft .815 qtc (blue).

so even smaller difference.

Hence my suggestion

2 enclosures, each enclosure with 2 uxl 18s dual opposed.

Yeah. See, I was thinking $1,500 total so I was not going to suggest an ultra high power amp like these LG clones. But whew... 3 grand? One can get a whole lotta sub woofage right there.

One LG Clone 10000q and DIY boxes, $3kish.

I'd use the FP14000 over a 10000Q. I don't know why that would even be suggested for two enclosures

edit: nevermind, 10000q would do better due to resistance of UXL18

Bam!


Pfft! I do. Bridge each pair of channels for ~4kw x2 @8ohm output and then hook up each pair of UXL18's in each cab in series for an 8ohm load.

Hm, yeah each one of these drivers is close to 4 ohms, so that would make sense. Otherwise you'd have to run them at 8 ohms on the FP14000 per enclosure without bridging.. The 10000Q would come out better here.

Yeah, I should have explained just that, with the Re...but I'm assuming everyone else knows my thoughts since I spent like 10 hours trying to decide what to do for my 4 drivers...

FP9K (there is no 10k).

The difference between the 9K and 14K is around 2dB. That's IF you have proper juice to each. Depending on the EQ and back panel settings and if you have a 20A home run, the diff is negligible, if any.

Bosso

I meant the 10kq. 10000q.

Sanway 10000q

The reason I say that is because my first sealed sub had a qtc of 0.95 and my current ones have a qtc of 0.75 and the sound is different by a large margin in terms of how it sounds. Its much deeper on the lower qtc and that is with them both EQ'd.

There's no doubt that the UXLs will have more output but it depends whether the extra cost is worth it. I modelled the UXL's with 4000 watts before going over max excursion at 10hz.

Were the systems the same apart from enclosure size? Same drivers etc?
The difference between two otherwise identical systems with Qt differing by 0.2 (0.75-0.95) is not going to be audible in either FR or settling time in room unless there was some pathalogical defect in one, eg the larger box resonated.

I vote for 16 Dayton RSS390HF in 4.5-5cu ft each with two EP4000's. Total outlay for drivers and amps would be ~$3200. I'd estimate about 10-12 sheets of Arauco plywood for another $500. I'd build them as towers with 4 drivers each and place them across the front of the room with the LCRs between them. Outer dimensions would be 2'x2'x6'.

In this space, I see these advantages:

1. You could build half this to start and see if that is adequate for your needs. None of us know how much is enough and this is a modular system whereas it would be tougher to do. You could build 2 boxes with 8 drivers and one amp and it might blow you away. This would save a bunch of money. You could even do 3 of the towers on three amp channels and use the last channel for a third sub for smoothing room response.

2. Having a "wall of bass" has modal advantages and should give a smoother response. This is a big advantage IMO.

3. You don't have to buy a non-warrantied clone amp from China. I'm not making any claims that the LG clones are bad, but I'm more comfortable suggesting a pair of EP4000s which can be purchased for a total of $650 from a US retailer. They also have a longer track record.

4. They are available and the UXL is not. PE and these Dayton drivers have a much longer track record.

5. You are better off with more Sd and less xmax if you can handle the extra box space. This advantage is small given the amount of headroom you will have.

6. You are better off needing less amp power. It will tax your amps less and won't require a dedicated 20amp circuit.

7. You can run them in 4 ohm stereo which the amp will do without problem. I don't like pushing amps with a 4 ohm mono or 2 ohm stereo load which few can do without response sag down low.

8. The RS drivers are much lower inductance although that becomes less important with lots of drivers.

9. It will create a baffle wall which IMO is the best way to setup a HT. Simply fill the space between each sub tower with something like a Pi speaker, JTR T12 or one of the SEOS designs. Fill any remainder with flush mounted plywood painted black.

Disadvantage:

1. Requires bigger boxes and more wood.

This is closer to what I presently do with a combination of 8 MFW drivers and 4 2245Hs. I can assure you it is a huge amount of output and headroom.

It is really a happy medium between IB and small sealed. It is similar to what PNW does in his Octagon with fifteen 15" subwoofers.

If the OP doesn't mind the larger boxes this, IMO is the best solution.

If I had a 10 foot wide by 5 foot tall by 2 feet deep behind an AT screen...... 16 drivers? holy cow

Screw ep4000, just call up musicians friend and buy an inuke 6000 for $350

although each channel is effectively a bridged 4 ohm mono nu3000 inside.. but meh