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Recomended Projector to light up 140inch AT screen

post #1 of 31
3/13/12 at 5:04pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Forum,
I need Projector recommendation(under $10,000) to light up a 140inch Acoustically transparent 2:35:1 screen after it is calibrated with if possible 15-16Fl. I have not yet purchased a screen. I don't mind purchasing a more expensive model used or demo projector if i can get it for the above price.
Thank you.
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post #2 of 31
3/13/12 at 5:05pm
Thread Starter 
Just a follow up..i mostly watch 2D and occasionally 3D maybe every 2-3 months once.
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post #3 of 31
3/13/12 at 6:39pm
Pretty easy, if talking about a microperf screen with gain. If talking about an AT woven screen, then it is tougher. I don't think there is any good HT projectors under 10k that light up that size woven AT screen for 2D and 3D. The Epson gets close for 3D, but not bright enough in 2D. The Benq gets close in 2D, but not bright enough in 3D. The new Panny AR100U can do it for 2D, but does not do 3D.
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post #4 of 31
3/14/12 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Pretty easy, if talking about a microperf screen with gain. If talking about an AT woven screen, then it is tougher. I don't think there is any good HT projectors under 10k that light up that size woven AT screen for 2D and 3D. The Epson gets close for 3D, but not bright enough in 2D. The Benq gets close in 2D, but not bright enough in 3D. The new Panny AR100U can do it for 2D, but does not do 3D.

What would do a microperf screen (any example of screen helpful). What would it take to do it on an AT screen like the XD even if over 10000? I'm in same boat and have throw of around 15.5'
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post #5 of 31
3/14/12 at 2:34pm
My JVC HD 250 lights up a 2.40:1 140" wide Seymour AT screen on low setting with no problem. I have about 850 hours on the lamp. YMMV

Stace
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post #6 of 31
3/14/12 at 3:40pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Mike.I will call or email you this week to discuss my purchase options.
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post #7 of 31
3/14/12 at 3:45pm
Thread Starter 
Stace thanks for the reply. could you please describe your screen model is it centerstage xd or something else and what material is it microperf or woven and what gain is it. Did you measure the FL after the screen was lit up.
Thanks much.
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post #8 of 31
3/14/12 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by laptopdoc View Post

Stace thanks for the reply. could you please describe your screen model is it centerstage xd or something else and what material is it microperf or woven and what gain is it. Did you measure the FL after the screen was lit up.
Thanks much.

Nothing against Stace's setup but as he said YMMV. I too have a centerstage XD screen that is 144" wide (165" diag 16x9) and there is no way that a JVC HD250 in low with 850 hours would be acceptable brightness for me. That projector is likely putting out 350 lumens in low at 850 hours. I run a pretty bright Infocus SP8602 and at close to 800 hours I was down to 525 lumens and had to buy a new bulb as it was simply too dim.

I will make some recommendations based on my experiences with front projection and big screens. I started with a 120" diag 16x9 screen and I can tell you that I would never go back (and that includes giving up 3D).

1. I would argue that your room will be very important to your ability to light up your screen to an acceptable level. Therefore your room must have full light control with dark walls, ceiling, and carpet. I went all black with no windows and it was the best thing I did for the perceived brightness on my screen. If you do this you will only need 10-12 fl max when bulb is new and your projector choices just went up dramatically.

2. If you take care of the room as described above and are most concerned about 2D then most of today's brighter 3D projectors should be fine and this includes any of the JVCs (you will likely be on high lamp mode after about 300 hours though due to lamp aging) and I would highly recommend the Sony 30 or 95ES as they have proven to not loose near as much brightness as the bulb ages and the bulbs are very cheap to replace if you need to replace often. Also consider the BenQ W7000 and the Panasonic 100U (if willing to give up 3D)

3. 3D is not very realistic on bigger screens with no gain so as long as you focus on 2D you will be ok, and you can play with 3D when the projectors bulb is new and bright. I personally don't think 3D is worth much so not having it doesn't bother me and I know even if I did have it, I wouldn't use it very often anyway. But it all depends on your priorities.

4. Be prepared to change the bulb at least annually or every 600-800 hours to maintain acceptable brightness levels depending on your taste. If you can stand a dimmer image as Stace has grown accustomed to then all the better and you can save the money for lamp replacements.
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post #9 of 31
3/14/12 at 9:03pm
Thread Starter 
dangc thanks for all the tips and especially about light control in the room.
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post #10 of 31
3/14/12 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post


Nothing against Stace's setup but as he said YMMV. I too have a centerstage XD screen that is 144" wide (165" diag 16x9) and there is no way that a JVC HD250 in low with 850 hours would be acceptable brightness for me. That projector is likely putting out 350 lumens in low at 850 hours. I run a pretty bright Infocus SP8602 and at close to 800 hours I was down to 525 lumens and had to buy a new bulb as it was simply too dim.

I will make some recommendations based on my experiences with front projection and big screens. I started with a 120" diag 16x9 screen and I can tell you that I would never go back (and that includes giving up 3D).

1. I would argue that your room will be very important to your ability to light up your screen to an acceptable level. Therefore your room must have full light control with dark walls, ceiling, and carpet. I went all black with no windows and it was the best thing I did for the perceived brightness on my screen. If you do this you will only need 10-12 fl max when bulb is new and your projector choices just went up dramatically.

2. If you take care of the room as described above and are most concerned about 2D then most of today's brighter 3D projectors should be fine and this includes any of the JVCs (you will likely be on high lamp mode after about 300 hours though due to lamp aging) and I would highly recommend the Sony 30 or 95ES as they have proven to not loose near as much brightness as the bulb ages and the bulbs are very cheap to replace if you need to replace often. Also consider the BenQ W7000 and the Panasonic 100U (if willing to give up 3D)

3. 3D is not very realistic on bigger screens with no gain so as long as you focus on 2D you will be ok, and you can play with 3D when the projectors bulb is new and bright. I personally don't think 3D is worth much so not having it doesn't bother me and I know even if I did have it, I wouldn't use it very often anyway. But it all depends on your priorities.

4. Be prepared to change the bulb at least annually or every 600-800 hours to maintain acceptable brightness levels depending on your taste. If you can stand a dimmer image as Stace has grown accustomed to then all the better and you can save the money for lamp replacements.

Great advice!

How dark of walls do you think the OP would need to achieve this?

Dark Blue, Dark Brown, Charcoal fabric walls be candidates? Or would the walls have to be black? I plan on going with a large 12-14' screen also. So I would love your opinion.

Also to the OP have you thought about going with DLP?
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post #11 of 31
3/15/12 at 12:22am
The ar100u is plenty bright for sure, but you sacrifice quite a few attributes in the image compared to a higher-end projector. The ar100u gives a bit of an edgy and digital image as well as with so-so blacks. It depends how picky you are, but given a budget all the way up to $10,000, I think the best option is a 2 projector setup if he can rig it and given his super large screen.

If his main concern is just 2D performance for movies and his budget is nearly $10,000, then I would probably buy the JVC RS-45 or Sony hw30 for movies, and just budget extra money for lamps every 500-1000 hours if going with the JVC. He can keep the lamp budget in reasonable limits by buying a second projector. So to keep the lamp usage down, buy a cheaper secondary projector for TV and mediocre sources that do not have a lot of dark scenes (netflix, etc...), or for gaming or whatever. Even consider a JVC RS-55 + a second projector, but the RS-45 is slightly brighter. Forget the Sony vw95es, it isn't bright enough regardless of what you do, but the hw30 is a little better in that regard.

For the secondary unit, look at all the options, the Panny ar100u, or a Benq w6000 for that isn't as bright as the ar100u but has a better image, also the Optoma hd33/330 (if you want 3d), or even a really cheap Benq w1200 (no good for gaming) or Viewsonic Pro8200 (great for gaming and very bright).

A two projector setup is the only option to maximize PQ in all circumstances and to keep lamp replacements at bay.
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post #12 of 31
3/15/12 at 5:55am
Thread Starter 
Yeah i did think of dlp but just getting everyone's opinions before i decide on something.
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post #13 of 31
3/15/12 at 5:58am
laptopdoc,

My screen is the Center Stage XD, woven, about 1.2 gain. My room is a dedicated space with complete light control. Black ceiling, dark fabric panel non reflective walls. For the record, I realize at some point I may have to switch the lamp to high but it is still very bright on low power. I don't believe I have "grown accustomed" to a dim image at all. It actually vibrant, colorful, and has excellent contrast. In a light controlled environment you don't need 1000 lumens to light up a good screen. But, as I said before,
YMMV.


Good Luck.

Stace
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post #14 of 31
3/15/12 at 5:58am
Thread Starter 
Changing lamp every year is not a issue for me..i can do that..also i would be changing the PJ every couple of years but still..the whole two PJ idea is a good one thanks!
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post #15 of 31
3/15/12 at 6:33am
How far back do you intend to sit? This will impact image size -- particularly with an AT screen -- at least if you want to avoid seeing the weave or the perforations.
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post #16 of 31
3/15/12 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisx510 View Post

Great advice!

How dark of walls do you think the OP would need to achieve this?

Dark Blue, Dark Brown, Charcoal fabric walls be candidates? Or would the walls have to be black? I plan on going with a large 12-14' screen also. So I would love your opinion.

Also to the OP have you thought about going with DLP?

I don't think you need to go black, although I honestly love it and most people really like how the room turned out....I do think Dark Blues or a Navy Blue would be good as well as Dark Browns, Burgundy, Dark Greys, or even mix and match a bit to create a nice look. The ceiling and carpet are critical so don't dismiss either of those elements. Any highly reflective surface will reflect a lot of light which you don't want especially with a big screen.

Remember that big screen will reflect back a lot of light so with light walls, floors, ceiling, etc. you will light up the whole room. I also did my room in steps, so I know what each piece did. First was the ceiling, great improvement but not enough, next was the carpet.....getting better, then I did just the walls in the front. At that point everything around the screen and 3 feet back was black...and it did make a big difference. But still the room behind me was still lit up....so I finished the job and it really was the biggest improvement I could have ever made to the impact of my my image. Bottom line with front projection is that any other light is the enemy.

Some have argued that sitting in a dark room like that can get depressing....I have had my room blacked out for for about 18 months and I still love it. I watch everything in my room as well, sports, TV, as well as Movies. What I did do to help with the black room, was to install two banks of lighting with dimmers. I have four recessed lights over my two rows of seating and then one set just in front of the screen for looks if you will. This allows me to add some light to the back of the room so I am not sitting in the dark for watching sports and doesn't hurt the picture quality too much.

Dan
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post #17 of 31
3/15/12 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlehman View Post

laptopdoc,

My screen is the Center Stage XD, woven, about 1.2 gain. My room is a dedicated space with complete light control. Black ceiling, dark fabric panel non reflective walls. For the record, I realize at some point I may have to switch the lamp to high but it is still very bright on low power. I don't believe I have "grown accustomed" to a dim image at all. It actually vibrant, colorful, and has excellent contrast. In a light controlled environment you don't need 1000 lumens to light up a good screen. But, as I said before,
YMMV.


Good Luck.

Stace

I know you are likely responding to my feedback. I want to re-iterate that I am only expressing my opinion and experience as well...I am not in anyway arguing against what you see. Sounds like you have a great setup.

Are you using an anamorphic lens? Or are you using the zoom method for your scope screen?

And you are absolutely right, you don't need a 1000 lumens but my min for my screen is about 550 as I have found out.
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post #18 of 31
3/15/12 at 3:59pm
I'm using an RS-20, zoom method, onto a 136" wide screen - also at around 800 hours, and on low power - I have not measured the output, but still pretty happy with the results. I've tried out high bulb setting a couple times just to see if I was missing out on something, but didn't seem necessary for me yet.

I knew going in that I was stretching the limits of the projector's output capability, but after living with it on a temporary muslin screen for a couple weeks, decided to go big on the screen, and haven't regretted it.

Of course, if I could have found a projector that met my other decision criteria, and had more lumens, I would have considered it.

Edit: oh, I'm 2D only since using RS-20, and the room is basically a bat cave - no windows, black screen wall, very dark brown elsewhere.
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post #19 of 31
3/15/12 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post

I don't think you need to go black, although I honestly love it and most people really like how the room turned out....I do think Dark Blues or a Navy Blue would be good as well as Dark Browns, Burgundy, Dark Greys, or even mix and match a bit to create a nice look. The ceiling and carpet are critical so don't dismiss either of those elements. Any highly reflective surface will reflect a lot of light which you don't want especially with a big screen.

Remember that big screen will reflect back a lot of light so with light walls, floors, ceiling, etc. you will light up the whole room. I also did my room in steps, so I know what each piece did. First was the ceiling, great improvement but not enough, next was the carpet.....getting better, then I did just the walls in the front. At that point everything around the screen and 3 feet back was black...and it did make a big difference. But still the room behind me was still lit up....so I finished the job and it really was the biggest improvement I could have ever made to the impact of my my image. Bottom line with front projection is that any other light is the enemy.

Some have argued that sitting in a dark room like that can get depressing....I have had my room blacked out for for about 18 months and I still love it. I watch everything in my room as well, sports, TV, as well as Movies. What I did do to help with the black room, was to install two banks of lighting with dimmers. I have four recessed lights over my two rows of seating and then one set just in front of the screen for looks if you will. This allows me to add some light to the back of the room so I am not sitting in the dark for watching sports and doesn't hurt the picture quality too much.

Dan

Lots of really good ideas here for colours, carpet etc. I used very dark to mid colours with no reflective surfaces. Midnight blue/black ceiling, Burgundy walls, dark brown carpet and Burgundy seats, all this helps. See my home cinema build in signature.
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post #20 of 31
3/15/12 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Lots of really good ideas here for colours, carpet etc. I used very dark to mid colours with no reflective surfaces. Midnight blue/black ceiling, Burgundy walls, dark brown carpet and Burgundy seats, all this helps. See my home cinema build in signature.

Wow, I am very envious...what I wouldn't give to do a ground up build.....great job!
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post #21 of 31
3/15/12 at 6:01pm
Thread Starter 
pete my first row of seats will be at 16feet from the screen.
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post #22 of 31
3/15/12 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
I love sitting in darkness too dan..i will may be going with a combination of blacks and greys. thanks.
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post #23 of 31
3/15/12 at 6:09pm
Thread Starter 
thank you stace..getting a lot of confidence from everyone so far!
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post #24 of 31
3/15/12 at 6:22pm
Thread Starter 
Murray i saw your theater yesterday while browsing the forums and it made me so happy it looks so good!. Can you give me the exact measurements of your raiser how long how wide and how high is it and how much space between to walk between first and second row and second and third row. Also what is the total width of the tire of four seats you have. I would love to put 12 seats in my theater. My finished room depth from screen to back wall would be 7meters. Thanks.
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post #25 of 31
3/15/12 at 7:11pm
I'm using a JVC RS45 with a 130" wide 2.05:1 Seymour CenterStageXD screen. So far, it's more than bright enough in 2D at both 2.35:1 and 16:9. The 3D we've watched has been okay. The room is light controlled and has black walls around the screen and a black ceiling.

Tim
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post #26 of 31
3/15/12 at 7:45pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Tim.
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post #27 of 31
3/17/12 at 12:20am
So hoe hard would it be for a two projector setup? Like use two JVC rs 45s. What all would one need and how far apart would the pjs need to be mounted from one another? I am using a ceiling mount at a 15' throw. 10' ceiling. Would I have to mount the second one a lot farther down? How does this affect 3D when using 2 pjs? Any info would be great as two of the JVCs would be in way under budget.

I have thought about using two diff pjs or adding a second drop down screen for 3D and use phantom for sound. If could have a dual pj setup that would allow huge screen for both 2 and 3D viewing that would solve all problems unless its way to tech for me to accomplish.
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post #28 of 31
3/17/12 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangc View Post

I know you are likely responding to my feedback. I want to re-iterate that I am only expressing my opinion and experience as well...I am not in anyway arguing against what you see. Sounds like you have a great setup.

Are you using an anamorphic lens? Or are you using the zoom method for your scope screen?

And you are absolutely right, you don't need a 1000 lumens but my min for my screen is about 550 as I have found out.

I'm using zoom with my pj mounted at about 16' 6" which is minimum distance for the size screen I am using. I am still amazed at how bright the image is at the 850 hour mark.

Stace
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post #29 of 31
3/19/12 at 11:02am
I have a similar issue choosing a PJ for a 120" 2:40 AT screen. The 4k AT screens I have looked at have a negative gain (.8ish).

Has anybody looked at the Sim2 crystal 35 or 45?
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post #30 of 31
3/19/12 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

What would do a microperf screen (any example of screen helpful). What would it take to do it on an AT screen like the XD even if over 10000? I'm in same boat and have throw of around 15.5'

The Sony VW1000 can light up a large screen.
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