Biggest myths in audio that tick you off/General things in audio that tick you off. - Page 32

How do you like your statements? I have been considering building a 5.0 set of statements but have never heard them. If possible could you also post a picture of them? Thanks

I hope he was just kidding because that just seems cruel especially to someone who can't afford something much better than a $60 HTiB. I'm the first one to say that a cheap system sucks and HTiB is junk but compared to a tv speakers it is a step in a right direction. I have only had tv speakers for the last 6 weeks and tonight I was watching my buddies HTiB system and I actually thought it sounded quite good compared to what I have been using lately. It's all a matter of perspective and something is always better than nothing.

a 5.1 for that price is not a step in the right direction. The right direction is a decent T-Amp or used stereo receiver, plus a pair of half-decent speakers (like the recent cheapo Pioneer bookshelves) in 2.0

By any chance, is this growth called "whiskers"? It's from pure Tin solder and described in the following

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_(metallurgy)

Here you go...



It's a pic after getting them in room and connected. Much tidier now.

Sounds like it. I saw a documentary on electronics long ago and learned about it then. I have no true educational background on any of this so all I know is what I've read and seen on TV documentaries.

Thanks for looking that up for us.

Sweet set up Jinjuku!

EDIT: Dang dude, I looked at your flickr pics. I didn't know you had it in you! I'm impressed.

Ya. It turns out I know a thing or two about audio (and cabinetry/carpentry)

WoodCraft was a particular high lite. The owner was putting that bookshelf up on the display cabinet and wasn't expecting how solid it was. Things sound terrific. The tweeter on them is stellar.

You should hear the subs (even with the pro-audio 'junk' driving them). Did the entire build (dual Kappa 120.9w) Crown XLS 602D, Behringer 1124P and materials for $361.

I always recommend people start with a HTIB surround system if that is all they can afford. Once they taste surround sound, they are hooked. This starts them on the road to wanting bigger and better.

Wow... That is something. Do you just work local in KY?


An audiophile likes to talk about how much "more" they spent and how good it sounds, marginally.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how much "more" they saved with just a marginal dip in Sound.

+1
Considering that virtually all A/V fanatics started with something basic it'd be nice if someone set up an Audiogon-type thing for entry level stuff like HTIBs and low-end AVRs.

Logical Myth: All audio amplifiers sound the same

Practically what this means is that the variation of different components used in all those receivers tested amount to no change in sound quality. Which also means we have made no progress in the land of audio amplification since the last 50 years or so.

Hard to believe. Yet time and again, somebody does a DBT and proves it correct.

My recommendation is to start with an HTIB, then visit a friend who has a decent home theater and get shocked and rush to buy a better system

All amplifiers do NOT sound the same. Anyone that believes that has never heard a DarTZeel next to Parasound Halo JC-1's. The JC-1's are phenomenal amps... But they are no DarTZeel.

This little gem is what I started with

The front stage and sub 20Hz content was exemplary.

Nobody says this, though. What they say is modern transistor amps run in normal range, not clipping, sound the same. Not to a computer, but to a human.

Why is that so hard to believe? Ordoes human ego get in the way?

This is what I started with:



The lovely Sony SA-VAD900...the DVD player was part of the speaker and the sub was built into the other front speaker. No, the DVD player could not play burned DVDs...

^^^^
Pfffft, mine was "1000" watts!! all being fed to the speakers with 98 gauge, 125' wires and I bought it in a hardware store with my new hammer.

I think they all sound the same, excluding the defective and under-power and noisy amps (hums, fan noise, etc.).

I've listened to Krell, Parasound, Mark Levinson, ATI, Acurus, Emotiva, HK AVR, Denon AVR, and they all sound the same to me.

So let's just agree to disagree on this topic since no one will win the debate.
It's okay.

As far as the "all amps working within spec sound the same", unfortunately that's not true.

I'd heard minor differences before between pro sound reinforcement Class-D amps vs. 'audiophile' Class A or Class A/B amps, but I heard a major difference between a good solid state and tube amp on a particular setup. The difference was so significant, I had a hard time understanding it (the tube amp sounded so much better it was as if it was a completely different sound system) until I read an article about it that the system owner referred me to.

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeaker...ing-Factor.pdf

As it turns out, there were (and still are some) speakers made to work optimally with certain types of amplifier architecture/characteristics and they don't necessarily 'play well with others'. I found it quite interesting to read about the differences in amp architecture and how solid state not only opened up a new direction in speaker design, but potentially altered/influenced the music of the time.

Many (most) of us these days have 'modern design' speakers. The kind (as described in that article) with big drivers needing adequate power and complex crossovers. Most amps made to drive these speakers will likely sound very, very similar indeed, but it appears that the wrong type of speaker paired with the wrong type of amp CAN indeed produce sub-par sound that doesn't have much to do with 'tube amps rolling off the highs to produce a warmer sound'.


Max

The sentiment is only for SS amps. Not tubed amps.

And you're 100% sure that tube amp was "working within spec"; spec being basic fundamentals of amplifier performance like low output impedance, flat frequency response +/- 0.5db, and not clipping, among other things? "Sounding subjectively better" does not mean it was performing objectively well.

What was the tube amp?

Wasnt there a famous audio brand in the 1970s or 80s where the designed got annoyed with all the tube fans, and so he added a "tube" setting on the amp, which boosted....distortion...to achieve the sound that the tube fans craved? :-)

Is this what you're talking about?:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

That is an interesting article and story. I always liked my Sunfire amps and had heard stories about Carvers eccentricity and bravado being a turnoff for the high end audio crowd. Now, I know why.

I don't know. There were no measurements of the system, but seeing as I have a preference for a smooth frequency response and have noted frequency response anomalies in systems that were later verified by measuring, I don't think it was 'favorable distortion' making it sound better.

Simply put, as that article I linked to described, the sound system (all that was done was to switch the speaker wires from one amp to the other and level match it with an SPL meter) sounded... lifeless, especially the bass. It almost sounded like what I heard when listening in an anechoic chamber,... except that I could still hear the normal everyday sounds normally (like the owner speaking to me), but the sound from the speakers was oddly flat.

It was vastly different to hearing tube amps vs solid state amps paired with 'modern design' speakers. In those cases, I heard the 'analog warmth of tubes' claims as high frequency rolloff. I can see how some folks might prefer it, but as yet, it hasn't been my cup of tea. ***P.S. edited to add: Don't ask me what the tube amps were either because I didn't bother asking the owners when I was told the amps were 5 figures.

I don't really know. I've never been too interested in tube amps (and I still haven't been bitten by THAT particular bug) so I didn't bother asking, especially when I was told that the amp would likely sound terrible with the speakers I had at the time (that was what led to the conversation about differing speaker designs and how well they meshed with different amplifier architectures).


Max

BTW:

Just for the record in that other thread you started (that is now closed).

1. I never said that pro-audio amps are better than higher end 'audiophilia' amps. I definitely don't think they are any worse. My Pass designed Adcom and Curl designed Parasound aren't any better than my XLS 402D. Actually the only amp that doesn't display some audible hiss through my Statements is the 402D. I was happy and shocked all at the same time.

2. I definitely never proposed using CAT5 cabling. I don't know where people come up with that one

I don't think it was 'bravado' that turned people off. I think it was Bob being correct and coming up with a really ingenious way of proving it.

Didn't know then man but spoke with someone who did. Comments were basically that he was arrogant. Seems that maybe he walked the talk. As I said, I thought his Sunfire Sig amps were great.