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Can't DIY? Here's an option... - Page 3

post #61 of 129
5/30/12 at 6:04am
Very nice! How much are those drivers?
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post #62 of 129
5/30/12 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Very nice! How much are those drivers?

Oh boy! I'm already seeing the next chapter in your subwoofer saga unfolding.
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post #63 of 129
5/30/12 at 7:37am
Just curious
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post #64 of 129
5/30/12 at 7:53am
That's how it begins...
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post #65 of 129
5/30/12 at 8:50am
Very nice setup Dominguez1 and I might add very imposing!
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post #66 of 129
5/30/12 at 9:37am
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

That's how it begins...

I am well beyond begins!

I am still finishing my new build so have no plans of future stuff yet. Give me 6 months or so.
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post #67 of 129
5/30/12 at 11:30am
I wish I could be nearby to catch some of the crumbs that fall from your table when you guys upgrade.
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post #68 of 129
5/30/12 at 3:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Very nice! How much are those drivers?

Thanks for the compliments! These drivers are $690 shipped to US each. 21in driver w/34mm xmax. 7 cubic foot box from eD (1in thick EFS). eD did an awesome job building, assembling, and shipping it all.

The pics don't do this justice. This driver is HUGE and very deep. It reminds me of a big crater...if I had to guess, it's probably 5-6 inches deep from the center of the cone to the rubber surround. You can kind of tell how deep it is from the pic of my HT.
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post #69 of 129
5/30/12 at 4:05pm
Thread Starter 

I've run through my demo discs, and here are my impressions:

These things are MUCH tighter than my prior setup. It seems I'm getting a lot more pressurization as well as I can feel a significant difference in that 'kick to the chest' effect. The crazy thing is; at the same time everything has a lot more depth to it! Bottomless is not a sound, but that's how I would best describe it. There is a certain fullness that is present, that wasn't there before. I'm guessing its probably because I have a lot more headroom and less distortion as a result, but I've also picked up an octave that I didn't have before. See FR below:

This is my response after tweaking with the eQ.2.

FTW21 + 2 Outlaw LFM1-EXs


When you compare it to the response I had with the A7S-450s, look at how the response changes from 9hz and down.

Comparison between eD A7S-450s and FTW21s (both with Outlaw LFM1-EXs)

At 5hz, there is a 17db difference!

My setup now is most definitely the best sounding yet! Very very happy so far. Funny thing is, I've only been able to listen to it at -3db (with subs at =7db hot)...once I turned it up to zero, I tripped my breaker. I've got my entire HT running off a single 15A!!! When I bought these things, I knew I would have to get another dedicated circuit for the 2 EP4000s...so no surprise.

Can't wait to get the circuit in and crank to -0 and beyond!


Edited by dominguez1 - 6/29/12 at 8:37am
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post #70 of 129
5/30/12 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

I've run through my demo discs, and here are my impressions:

These things are MUCH tighter than my prior setup. It seems I'm getting a lot more pressurization as well as I can feel a significant difference in that 'kick to the chest' effect. The crazy thing is; at the same time everything has a lot more depth to it! Bottomless is not a sound, but that's how I would best describe it. There is a certain fullness that is present, that wasn't there before. I'm guessing its probably because I have a lot more headroom and less distortion as a result, but I've also picked up an octave that I didn't have before. See FR below:

This is my response after tweaking with the eQ.2.

When you compare it to the response I had with the A7S-450s, look at how the response changes from 9hz and down.

At 5hz, there is a 17db difference!

My setup now is most definitely the best sounding yet! Very very happy so far. Funny thing is, I've only been able to listen to it at -3db (with subs at =7db hot)...once I turned it up to zero, I tripped my breaker. I've got my entire HT running off a single 15A!!! When I bought these things, I knew I would have to get another dedicated circuit for the 2 EP4000s...so know surprise.

Can't wait to get the circuit in and crank to -0 and beyond!

You are comparing 2 a7s-450's to 2 21's? Did your eD subs have the HP filter in the 1300 amp? I know they removed it for the 650 sealed sub but I don't remember if they removed it from the 18 sealed. Anyways nice response! Now take that up until it compresses to see the limits! Be careful though.
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post #71 of 129
5/30/12 at 7:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You are comparing 2 a7s-450's to 2 21's? Did your eD subs have the HP filter in the 1300 amp? I know they removed it for the 650 sealed sub but I don't remember if they removed it from the 18 sealed. Anyways nice response! Now take that up until it compresses to see the limits! Be careful though.

Yes, but both the A7S and FTW21s systems had 2 Outlaw LFM1-EXs in each setup as well.

Correct, the A7Ss had the HPFs in the amp...

I'll probably let them break in for a while before running sine waves, but I am curious..
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post #72 of 129
5/30/12 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post


Yes, but both the A7S and FTW21s systems had 2 Outlaw LFM1-EXs in each setup as well.

Correct, the A7Ss had the HPFs in the amp...

I'll probably let them break in for a while before running sine waves, but I am curious..

I thought so. I am sure the 21's are just plain better in every aspect but I would have loved to see the subs without the HP filter. Even without it if they had the same response due to a sealed response the 21's will maintain that response at higher levels! These subs look great and if my 6 eD DIY A7S-650's with FP14k don't impress these 21's will be on the radar!
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post #73 of 129
5/31/12 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post


Yes, but both the A7S and FTW21s systems had 2 Outlaw LFM1-EXs in each setup as well.

Correct, the A7Ss had the HPFs in the amp...

I'll probably let them break in for a while before running sine waves, but I am curious..

How is running the a7 w/ the outlaws?
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post #74 of 129
5/31/12 at 9:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post


How is running the a7 w/ the outlaws?

They were awesome together! It took some tweaking with the eQ.2 to get them to play nicely, but the result was great.

I'll be selling the A7S-450s, BTW...
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post #75 of 129
5/31/12 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post


They were awesome together! It took some tweaking with the eQ.2 to get them to play nicely, but the result was great.

I'll be selling the A7S-450s, BTW...

Whaaa
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post #76 of 129
5/31/12 at 6:58pm
Thread Starter 
Hey MK, when is your build going to be done? Looking forward to your impressions...
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post #77 of 129
5/31/12 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Hey MK, when is your build going to be done? Looking forward to your impressions...

Unfortunately not until I get back from my cruise on the 10th. I have a couple finished but I want to hear the whole system for a fair comparison.
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post #78 of 129
5/31/12 at 9:42pm
Dom, are you going to sell the ED's but keep the Outlaws in? If so wouldn't it be better to keep the ED's, that way all your subs would be sealed? IDK
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post #79 of 129
6/2/12 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Dom, are you going to sell the ED's but keep the Outlaws in? If so wouldn't it be better to keep the ED's, that way all your subs would be sealed? IDK

You'd think so....

The eDs dropped like a rock in my second row....it started at 22hz and just dropped off a cliff. In the front of the room they extended to 10...

They hardly shook the couch at all as a result. Thats the main reason why I want subs back there. The outlaws on the other hand, shake them like crazy. Probably because of the ported tune to 16hz...
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post #80 of 129
6/2/12 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

You'd think so....

The eDs dropped like a rock in my second row....it started at 22hz and just dropped off a cliff. In the front of the room they extended to 10...

They hardly shook the couch at all as a result. Thats the main reason why I want subs back there. The outlaws on the other hand, shake them like crazy. Probably because of the ported tune to 16hz...

First off congrats those look stunning!

Did you take graphs with them both combined like with the outlaws? Most like there nearfield subs for the midbass such as HSU's mbm's. The eD's will have quite a bit more output over 30hz. Although now your system is limited by power to the room, and the Outlaws take less power. Poor center channel looks like a runt in your room now sitting next to those beasts.
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post #81 of 129
6/3/12 at 3:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

First off congrats those look stunning!

Did you take graphs with them both combined like with the outlaws? Most like there nearfield subs for the midbass such as HSU's mbm's. The eD's will have quite a bit more output over 30hz. Although now your system is limited by power to the room, and the Outlaws take less power. Poor center channel looks like a runt in your room now sitting next to those beasts.

I did actually. It was actually the flattest curve I've achieved, but from an impact perspective, it was non-existent compared to the ported outlaws.



The one thing about the FTWs is that they really have a noticeable difference in midbass slam compared to the eD's. I thought the eD's were awesome, but these step it up to a whole new level.

At the end of the day, my FR may be a little lumpier, but there is absolutely no way I would trade the shake I'm getting to a flatter curve.

Yeah...poor little center channel. It's 6.5in drivers do look tiny, but they do perform well. I have thought many times of upgrading it, but it's the perfect height and size...anything else and I'd have to adjust the pj screen, etc. etc.
LL
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post #82 of 129
6/3/12 at 4:02pm
Thread Starter 
So, I've finally got everything dialed in...another dedicated circuit for the 2 EP4000s, re-ran audyssey, and dialed in with the eQ.2s.

Played the Hulk at reference, and hit a very clean 122db (max)! This happened during the cop car scene.

For those skeptical about ULF content, particularly less than 15hz...check out the video below. During this Hulk scene, you'll see some crazy 15hz and below content...particularly 10hz and below! This is played with a flat curve at reference. Multiple times during the video you'll notice that 5hz is the strongest frequency!

The scale on the left: 130db is the very top of the chart, 120db is the first line from the top, 110 is the second, etc. etc. The horizontal axis goes from 5hz to 200hz.

EDIT: Fast forward to about 1:22 to see the strong 5hz content. It lasts for 20 seconds or so...



I played this same scene with my eD's and outlaws...quite a bit of difference, especially 10 and below...

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post #83 of 129
6/3/12 at 4:09pm
Wow.... I may have to consider these when I add more hardware. I currently have a single a7-450, and was going to add a second. I might just grab two of these FTW's....
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post #84 of 129
6/3/12 at 4:11pm
Dominguez, do you have the cinemas connected to the ep4000's or are they for the subs only?
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post #85 of 129
6/3/12 at 4:23pm
So it sounds like you need to update your other thread with you thoughts.

Yeah I bet your room is out if this world now. Congrats on all your hard work for it.

Yeah there is something funny about the sheer size of those subs...kind of hard to put into words. And that's just from the pics.

What kind of software are using in the videos that allows you to see the levels and everything there?
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post #86 of 129
6/3/12 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post

Dominguez, do you have the cinemas connected to the ep4000's or are they for the subs only?

I don't have cinemas, but the eps are just for the two FTW subs only.
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post #87 of 129
6/3/12 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

So it sounds like you need to update your other thread with you thoughts.

Yeah I bet your room is out if this world now. Congrats on all your hard work for it.

Yeah there is something funny about the sheer size of those subs...kind of hard to put into words. And that's just from the pics.

What kind of software are using in the videos that allows you to see the levels and everything there?

Yup, that thread update is next!

The cabinet is definitely big...but that damn 21in driver is ridiculous! Probably not a good thing (and likely because I still have the subs on furniture movers), but when I play the Black Hawk Down scene when it hits those 7hz notes, the driver excursion is insane and it actually rocks the entire 250lb cabinet! I listen to that scene at reference...and the FTW21 is hardly moving, and then all of a sudden it gets massive excursion for a few seconds, and then goes back to hardly moving. Pretty cool to see. I'll try and capture it on video...

I'm using the omnimic software in the video. Measurement gear (especially those that are as easy as the OM) is absolutely essential for the serious enthusiast!!!
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post #88 of 129
6/3/12 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Yup, that thread update is next!

The cabinet is definitely big...but that damn 21in driver is ridiculous! Probably not a good thing (and likely because I still have the subs on furniture movers), but when I play the Black Hawk Down scene when it hits those 7hz notes, the driver excursion is insane and it actually rocks the entire 250lb cabinet! I listen to that scene at reference...and the FTW21 is hardly moving, and then all of a sudden it gets massive excursion for a few seconds, and then goes back to hardly moving. Pretty cool to see. I'll try and capture it on video...

I'm using the omnimic software in the video. Measurement gear (especially those that are as easy as the OM) is absolutely essential for the serious enthusiast!!!

I know what you mean man. When I was watching my subs play the BHD scene that sudden excursion scared the hell out of me! Immediately started scrambling for the remote lol
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post #89 of 129
6/4/12 at 4:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post

Wow.... I may have to consider these when I add more hardware. I currently have a single a7-450, and was going to add a second. I might just grab two of these FTW's....

They're definitely worth a consideration! Especially if you have nice room gain...5hz with meaningful output is achievable (at least in a room like mine). These things have so much throw and cone area to get that massive displacement for ULF and infrasonics.
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post #90 of 129
6/11/12 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 
I just watched Underworld Awakenings and Ghost Protocol this past weekend...there were a number of times where I had to pause it to make sure the room and rest of the house was ok!

These FTWs are just sick. The biggest difference between this system and my eDs is the SQ! I never would have thought it would be such a difference given the flat response I had with my eD's, but these are truly much more detailed. The biggest difference is how tight these are! As I said before, the tight/slam in the chest is significantly better that my eD setup. These really sound detailed and articulate when you need them, and then can also belt out the ULF.

I was expecting higher infrasonics (which I got), but was not expecting the SQ and tactile 'midbass' difference. Very impressed. smile.gif
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