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Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD! - Page 4

post #91 of 400
Also, F-you Bioware for mailing it in on Tali's face too. All those artists and the best you could do was a stock image? Spend a game and a half to see that? Really? Now the ending makes more sense.

Dammit...just saw this:

http://www.gamesradar.com/amazing-fa...mass-effect-2/

THAT would have been awesome!
post #92 of 400
Yeah...all the shortcuts they took kinda reinforce the belief that they didn't give a ****. Even if it's not true. Perception is reality.

Supposedly they went back and forth for a long time about whether or not to show her face. Probably because only a small percentage of people would see it, they didn't want to dedicate an artist to model her face. Or even draw it. I'm sure they didn't pick a random photo out of a bag, that they specifically chose that photo...but still.
post #93 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinoza_43221 View Post

Some might say that a brilliant but inconclusive ending actually makes it a great ending. Ala Inception....or how about that little quarter smile the mona lisa has, why is she smiling like that.

That would be fine if the whole game was inception or if this was an art museum where you went to contemplate. But this isn't inception or fine art it was a game made for the masses. Some people say the game was even "dumbed down" for the masses with more shooting and less RPG. 99% of the story is written in a way that the vast majority of the audience can easily follow. Then at the end they take a left turn and try throwing in the inception\\fine art stuff. Thats like throwing a high level Cisco document into a service desk repository it does no good as few of the agents are going to understand it or even care about it since it doesn't apply to the work they are doing. As a writer you have to know your audience, I think the guy in charge of the end of the game failed in this. It didn't have to be a happy ending, it didn't have to answer every question, but it should have had some clarity and not leave it up to peoples imagination to what even actually happened.

Everyone dead?
Shepard indoctrinated?
No ending present?
Everything happened just like shown, with the galaxy saved in all endings (plot holes and all)?
Just a story told by an old man?
Plot by Bioware to get free press and sell more games and DLC?
And many more.
post #94 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepaul View Post

Didn't anybody ever watch Star Trek: The Next Generation? Isn't a Q-like entity establishing holodeck-like realities an acceptable alternative to Reaper mind games?

This is where I'd like a few Bioware interviews to come out, but they're probably pissed. Besides, they say Melville thought it was just a whale story...

lol. I always loved Q. Some would say that he was malevolent, always mind-fu@#ing Picard like that, but it was always my assertion that he both adored and was fascinated by Picard and saw him as the living, breathing embodiment of humanity. Thusly, our ST hero mirrors Shepard. All a dream? A simulation? Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, I see both instances as a fully intrinsic study of the very best of our kind; one who is willing to sacrifice everything for their belief systems and, to further the Star Trek theme, "the good of the many over the needs of the one...or the few." In that, I find peace, knowing that this entire series wasn't about saving the galaxy from the Reapers at all, but a journey into the depths of the character herself, to be savored, not reflected upon with disdain or regret by one final moment of uncertainty. The choices we've made in all 3 games show us who we are, how we feel, what we would do, if it were us in the same situation. Do those choices matter? Do we matter?

As for Melville, he was one sly devil. I still have my copy of Moby Dick from 30 years ago, each and every page broken down to it most base parts, reconstructed, and analyzed; filled with a novel of its own in the edges of the pages from my thoughts and notes. When I re-read my thoughts from 30 years ago, it's eye-opening to see my past-self, even at the young age of just 13. "Just a whale story," indeed!
post #95 of 400
Best line I've seen so far regarding the ending:

"I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite color..."
post #96 of 400
embedding the earlier video to get around youtube's stupid "safe mode". will remove later.



Edit - replaced with new video
post #97 of 400
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI

Here are a couple videos explaining the "indoctrination theory".

Basically, everything after when Shepard is hit by harbinger's laser is in shepard's head and is a battle for indoctrination. I don't think I agree with everything here, but it's a valid theory I think. And it makes sense of some of things that don't in the ending.

Again, not saying I completely buy all of this but it's interesting.
post #98 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHDTVDiet View Post

...As a writer you have to know your audience, I think the guy in charge of the end of the game failed in this. It didn't have to be a happy ending, it didn't have to answer every question, but it should have had some clarity and not leave it up to peoples imagination to what even actually happened.

Everyone dead?
Shepard indoctrinated?
No ending present?
Everything happened just like shown, with the galaxy saved in all endings (plot holes and all)?
Just a story told by an old man?
Plot by Bioware to get free press and sell more games and DLC?
And many more.

From what I read, when Casey and the writers went through the final game ending drafts, Casey wanted a high level ending that doesn't go deep into what Shepard has done. I don't know if they ended with "3 color explosion" choices ending because that looks very high level ending choices to me.

Something I haven't read here being discussed. We know Bioware said ME3 is fully playable by first time players. If you are a first time player on Mass Effects 3 and don't know anything about events and characters from ME1/2, first you have no attachment to the characters nor deep understand on what has been going on in ME universe. I have read and saw many of the reasons why ME3 ending sucks reasoning. I have to say if I'm a new ME3 player, none of the reasoning points matter to me. By the time I got to the ME3 ending, I probably don't want any complicated choices to make because I don't know the specifics in the story. Having "3 colors explosions" choices are good enough. As I said, Bioware seemed to focus the ME3 endings for the new ME3 players. Keep the ending simple, stupid. And forgot about the rest of the large ME trilogy fans.
post #99 of 400
They clearly ended with the different colored explosions because it saved dev time, plain and simple. I suppose they thought it'd be fine because if you didn't know they were all essentially the same, each one would seem proper in and of itself. Its the kind of thing that doesn't really matter (like the whereabouts of the normandy) if the rest of the ending feels right to you....but thats obviously not the case for so many people.
post #100 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

They clearly ended with the different colored explosions because it saved dev time, plain and simple. I suppose they thought it'd be fine because if you didn't know they were all essentially the same, each one would seem proper in and of itself. Its the kind of thing that doesn't really matter (like the whereabouts of the normandy) if the rest of the ending feels right to you....but thats obviously not the case for so many people.

IF that's the case then the developers needed to pay more attention to their own code because the game's last autosave is right after you teleport up to the Citadel, allowing you to basically re-load and play thru all three endings in about a half-hour.
post #101 of 400
^That's what I did. Seems like they wanted you to see each ending.
post #102 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by tfoltz View Post

^That's what I did. Seems like they wanted you to see each ending.

Same here. I thought that part was kinda lame as well, but it didn't really change my feelings about the ending. I like what they were generally trying to do, and Im not really bothered by the little inconsistencies everyone is raging about...but the execution just wasn't there. Everything I liked about the ending was merely guided by what they presented. The ending in my head is way better.
post #103 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

IF that's the case then the developers needed to pay more attention to their own code because the game's last autosave is right after you teleport up to the Citadel, allowing you to basically re-load and play thru all three endings in about a half-hour.

If your EMS has improved because of playing MP, you need to load the game save before landing on Earth. Restarting the final Citadel auto save doesn't refresh to the latest EMS.
post #104 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

They clearly ended with the different colored explosions because it saved dev time, plain and simple.

ME3 was originally scheduled and budget to be released at the later 2011. It was delayed by several months to add multiplayer co-op. Here's a question that hasn't been answered by Bioware. Where's the extra budget came from to develop the multiplayer? Single player campaign didn't go Gold until later in January. If ME3 development (even different team that developed the MP, the money still has to come from somewhere.) The ending just felt like there should be more to it. So, did Bioware used part of the ending game budget to develop the multiplayer?

Second, assuming From Ash DLC was post main game development as insisted by Bioware. I read Casey was so proud that From Ash team completed the development before the main game came out. Again, why didn't Bioware ensure the main game ending was properly done first? What I'm getting at is Bioware development used the extra time (and possibility budget) to develop MP and DLC than ensuring the main game ending can be as good as it can for all the fans.

Maybe Casey is like many game directors, if only last 5 minutes is risky being bad (there's almost no gameplay anyway), who cares. Spend the extra time and budget to make other parts of the game, ie. MP and DLC that can bring in more money.
post #105 of 400
The only thing that is absolutely clear is that most of the perceived faults with the ending are by design. It's not like they develop the game from first level to last and then just run out of time/money when it comes to the ending. The ending is a serious consideration from the very beginning. The only thing you can really point to as clearly being influenced by time/budget is the reusing of the the colored lasers. They had lengthier dialog for Anderson and the child, and had the voice recorded and everything. They cut it. I know it's hard to believe...but this is exactly how they wanted it to end.

If you want to point to anything suffering from lack of time/money or focus on coop, its the scarcity of side missions.
post #106 of 400
Lord Zath post defending Co-Op in 3...2...1...
post #107 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The only thing that is absolutely clear is that most of the perceived faults with the ending are by design. It's not like they develop the game from first level to last and then just run out of time/money when it comes to the ending. The ending is a serious consideration from the very beginning. The only thing you can really point to as clearly being influenced by time/budget is the reusing of the the colored lasers. They had lengthier dialog for Anderson and the child, and had the voice recorded and everything. They cut it. I know it's hard to believe...but this is exactly how they wanted it to end.

If you want to point to anything suffering from lack of time/money or focus on coop, its the scarcity of side missions.

Well, that still one of my earlier point, the team or director wanted high level ending mostly for any new player to follow. From I learned from watching marketing, when a product is very popular with loyal fans, one of the big goal is ensure there will be new "customers" for the sequel. It will be a mistake to tailor the sequel just for the fans because the product doesn't gain new customers. With ME3 being the last in the trilogy, it's more important to take the risk to gain as many new gamers as possible. Loyal fans will be day 1 buy and they don't know how the ending will be like. Bioware can estimate the guaranteed fans sales number. If Bioware is able to bring in a large percent of new gamers to buy ME3 with bigger hypes, then it's considered a huge success even the endings angered many loyal fans. It's all about maximize the total profit can be made in the end.
post #108 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Lord Zath post defending Co-Op in 3...2...1...

Don't see a need to. bd wasn't trashing it
post #109 of 400
I have 2 ME3 playthroughs. A question on how to get both qurions and geths to co-exist at the end of the battle if letting the geth to upload the updates to the rest of the geth.

I don't know what specific I need to do to make that happen because in my 1st playthrough, after I let Legion to upload the updates to the rest of the free geth, Shepard and Tali were able to stop the Qurions feet to stop attacking the geth fleet. But on my 2nd playthrough, I chose a few Renegades responses on the generic geth replacement since I gave Legion to Cerberus on this one and there isn't a way for Shepard to stop the Qurions to stop attacking the geth. If Shepard lets the upload to complete, the geth will destroy the qurions and the admiral (Tali's already dead in this one) kills herself.

Is keeping Tali alive the key or some other variables?
post #110 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

ME3 was originally scheduled and budget to be released at the later 2011. It was delayed by several months to add multiplayer co-op. Here's a question that hasn't been answered by Bioware. Where's the extra budget came from to develop the multiplayer?

Things didn't necessarily have to be sacrificed to develop the multiplayer mode. They may of finished underbudget and ahead of schedule and decided to take advantage of that to expand their project beyond their initial plans.

Or a decision might've been made to expand the budget of the game to develop a multiplayer mode (Perhaps believing the expanded sales of the game as a result and additonal opportunities for microtransactions in the future justified the increased expenditure).

A new feature doesn't mean they cut corners somewhere else. I really doubt online multiplayer has anything to do with any percieved deficiencies with the ending.
post #111 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post


Well, that still one of my earlier point, the team or director wanted high level ending mostly for any new player to follow. From I learned from watching marketing, when a product is very popular with loyal fans, one of the big goal is ensure there will be new "customers" for the sequel. It will be a mistake to tailor the sequel just for the fans because the product doesn't gain new customers. With ME3 being the last in the trilogy, it's more important to take the risk to gain as many new gamers as possible. Loyal fans will be day 1 buy and they don't know how the ending will be like. Bioware can estimate the guaranteed fans sales number. If Bioware is able to bring in a large percent of new gamers to buy ME3 with bigger hypes, then it's considered a huge success even the endings angered many loyal fans. It's all about maximize the total profit can be made in the end.

EA clearly wanted to bring new people in, but I don't see how a baffling ending helps in that regard. If anything, a great ending would get new people to go back and play the other ones.

Ultimately, I think we just need to accept this is the ending they wanted. They weren't forced into it, there's no conspiracy or outside factors that pushed them to cut it or change it. This is their ending.
post #112 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

I have 2 ME3 playthroughs. A question on how to get both qurions and geths to co-exist at the end of the battle if letting the geth to upload the updates to the rest of the geth.

I don't know what specific I need to do to make that happen because in my 1st playthrough, after I let Legion to upload the updates to the rest of the free geth, Shepard and Tali were able to stop the Qurions feet to stop attacking the geth fleet. But on my 2nd playthrough, I chose a few Renegades responses on the generic geth replacement since I gave Legion to Cerberus on this one and there isn't a way for Shepard to stop the Qurions to stop attacking the geth. If Shepard lets the upload to complete, the geth will destroy the qurions and the admiral (Tali's already dead in this one) kills herself.

Is keeping Tali alive the key or some other variables?

I let the geth upload in my "pure renegade" Shepard, and they are all buddy buddy. I thought that whole Tali killing herself thing was a joke!
post #113 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post


Things didn't necessarily have to be sacrificed to develop the multiplayer mode. They may of finished underbudget and ahead of schedule and decided to take advantage of that to expand their project beyond their initial plans.

Or a decision might've been made to expand the budget of the game to develop a multiplayer mode (Perhaps believing the expanded sales of the game as a result and additonal opportunities for microtransactions in the future justified the increased expenditure).

A new feature doesn't mean they cut corners somewhere else. I really doubt online multiplayer has anything to do with any percieved deficiencies with the ending.

The MP stemmed from what was originally going to be a standalone, battlefield-esque like FPS (Zath would have died and gone to heaven ). It looked pretty cool, very unreal tournament 2004ish. Apparently that team was doing a lot of work improving the combat, and instead of having two separate products, they folded them together.

They certainly didn't finish under budget, and they had to delay it moths because they didn't finish it on time....but I don't think MP is to blame. The ending is the way it is due to creative decisions.
post #114 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

I have 2 ME3 playthroughs. A question on how to get both qurions and geths to co-exist at the end of the battle if letting the geth to upload the updates to the rest of the geth.

I don't know what specific I need to do to make that happen because in my 1st playthrough, after I let Legion to upload the updates to the rest of the free geth, Shepard and Tali were able to stop the Qurions feet to stop attacking the geth fleet. But on my 2nd playthrough, I chose a few Renegades responses on the generic geth replacement since I gave Legion to Cerberus on this one and there isn't a way for Shepard to stop the Qurions to stop attacking the geth. If Shepard lets the upload to complete, the geth will destroy the qurions and the admiral (Tali's already dead in this one) kills herself.

Is keeping Tali alive the key or some other variables?

I think both Tali and Legion have to be alive and have to be Loyal in order for there to be peace between the Geth and the Quarians.

I believe you had to resolve the argument between Tali and Legion in ME2. If you gave Legion to cerberus you would not have done this. I also heard not resolving the argument but getting their loyalty in a later conversation will not allow for a peaceful ending in ME3. Obviously either or both being dead or not present does not allow for either to be loyal.

Thats what I got from reading some threads on the subject, I do not have the guide nor did I research this.
post #115 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

They certainly didn't finish under budget, and they had to delay it moths because they didn't finish it on time....but I don't think MP is to blame. The ending is the way it is due to creative decisions.

I really don't think any of us knows if it finished under budget, on target, or went above the original budget. And I still think it may have been delayed a few months since they finished the original single player campaign on target and decided to tackle integrating a online mode into the game and it ended up causing their schedule to slip into early 2012 to get things right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

They delayed it because the game wasn't coming together fast enough overall. They said that much plain as day in the "final hours app".

And I believe they never went into any more depth into the reason for the delay than that.

They very well finished ahead of schedule, decided to take advantage of that by incorporating multiplayer, and then encountered some struggles with that new mode leading to a delay.
post #116 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_Ames View Post


I really don't think any of us knows if it finished under budget, on target, or went above the original budget. And I still think it may have been delayed a few months since they finished the original single player campaign on target and decided to tackle integrating a online mode into the game and it ended up causing their schedule to slip into early 2012 to get things right.

They delayed it because the game wasn't coming together fast enough overall. They said that much plain as day in the "final hours app".
post #117 of 400
At Citadel bar, when Shepard got drunk and went to talk to Joker before Joker goes to dance, Shepard (as FemShep) will try to make a move with Joker. Shepard asked Joker that he has followed her to hell but why not her quarter.

In my other playthroughs, if Shepard never got drunk, she wouldn't ask Joker such question.
post #118 of 400
awesome.

Had some of my best games ever last night with a bunch of AVS guys. Played as Vanguard and just combo'd the crap out of everyone on silver geth. Back to back matches of over 100k points. I just kept thinking

post #119 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zath View Post

awesome.

Had some of my best games ever last night with a bunch of AVS guys. Played as Vanguard and just combo'd the crap out of everyone on silver geth. Back to back matches of over 100k points. I just kept thinking


Ah, so you're all hopped up on drugs. That explains it.
post #120 of 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

At Citadel bar, when Shepard got drunk and went to talk to Joker before Joker goes to dance, Shepard (as FemShep) will try to make a move with Joker. Shepard asked Joker that he has followed her to hell but why not her quarter.

In my other playthroughs, if Shepard never got drunk, she wouldn't ask Joker such question.

I got the feeling that she was just teasing him.
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