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Intel HD3000 59p or 59i

post #1 of 29
3/18/12 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
With the latest Intel HD3000 driver update from Microsoft, I've notice that I have more frequency options than before. Specifically, 59i and 60i. I've switched over to 1080/59i and reran the TV setup in WMC to see if there are any advantages to this mode.

I assume that my TV is now doing the deinterlaceing instead of the HTPC for 1080i content.

Any one else try these new options?
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post #2 of 29
3/18/12 at 1:57pm
Interesting.

May have to check this out.
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post #3 of 29
3/18/12 at 5:02pm
Did this fix the 29/59 frame rate issue?
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post #4 of 29
3/18/12 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortcut3d View Post

Did this fix the 29/59 frame rate issue?

Not for me.
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post #5 of 29
3/19/12 at 10:16am
May fix the combing issue though. HD3000 seems to struggle with 480i, the TV will most likely do a better job on interlaced material.
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post #6 of 29
3/19/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

I assume that my TV is now doing the deinterlaceing instead of the HTPC for 1080i content.

It's most likely happening in both places actually. AFAIK there's no way to actually disable deinterlacing, the framebuffer is alwasy a progressive surface that the video is rendered to.
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post #7 of 29
3/19/12 at 11:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

It's most likely happening in both places actually. AFAIK there's no way to actually disable deinterlacing, the framebuffer is alwasy a progressive surface that the video is rendered to.

Yeah..I was thinking that may be the case but I don't know for sure.
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post #8 of 29
3/20/12 at 2:37pm
caeguy, where did you find the options for interlaced output. I just updated the driver and dont see the option in the Intel setup.
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post #9 of 29
3/20/12 at 4:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTheater View Post

caeguy, where did you find the options for interlaced output. I just updated the driver and dont see the option in the Intel setup.

Here...

LL
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post #10 of 29
3/20/12 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
^ As you can see, I switched back to 60P. I was seeing significant combing on fast transition scenes. I also turned off film detection so I'm not sure if the frequency or the film detection helped the combing issue. More testing to follow.
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post #11 of 29
3/20/12 at 8:11pm
So
Old New  
29 Hz/30 Hz 59i Hz/60i Hz outputting interlaced video
- 29p Hz/30p Hz outputting progressive video, new addition (not every display supports it)
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post #12 of 29
3/20/12 at 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

^ As you can see, I switched back to 60P. I was seeing significant combing on fast transition scenes. I also turned off film detection so I'm not sure if the frequency or the film detection helped the combing issue. More testing to follow.

Very interesting, those options are not available to me. Did you update through windows or download from Intel? (nevermind, just seen you said microsoft)

BTW, thanks for the screen shot

edit: I got the update from Intel's site but there is no " i or p " suffex on the refresh rate options. Also noticed windows still wants to update this driver. Is your driver 8.15.10.2622?
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post #13 of 29
3/20/12 at 11:51pm
Using interlaced output from a HTPC is generally not recommended.
You'll most likely deinterlace twice, once in the HTPC, then the HTPC will interlace it again, and the TV will then deinterlace again. This whole process does not ensure that the original interlacing pattern will be reproduced on the TVs end.

Those interlaced modes are really only useful if your TV does not accept progressive for some reason.

Anyway, they are only renamed options. 29i/30i were present before, which are the same options just with another notation.
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post #14 of 29
3/21/12 at 12:23am
As I mentioned on the 24p thread, back in the day (1997-2004 or so), HTPC was all about dealing with interlaced broadcast material (4:3 and 16:9), as well as coping with DVDs at 480p or 576p.

Most people still had CRT televisions, and most of these couldn't accept progressive signals. The big thing in HTPC was to try to get high-quality interlaced signals into these TVs. In Europe, we had SCART inputs (still do), and you could persuade certain Matrox and ATI video cards to output interlaced video over a VGA to RGB-SCART cable. You had to be careful not to fry your TV when messing with custom resolutions in Linux (or Powerstrip under Windows). See, e.g. this related How-to on the DirectFB project .

Fun times. So you really had a lot of interlaced source material, and TVs that were well-adapted to displaying interlaced material. I still have a machine with a Matrox G400, but it seems to have died - I think it is the curse of the dodgy capacitors on my Abit NF7-S Rev2.
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post #15 of 29
3/21/12 at 3:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTheater View Post

Is your driver 8.15.10.2622?

8.15.10.2622 is older. It's 8.15.10.2653. Download (the same as Windows update).
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post #16 of 29
3/21/12 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiorapatea View Post

As I mentioned on the 24p thread, back in the day (1997-2004 or so), HTPC was all about dealing with interlaced broadcast material (4:3 and 16:9), as well as coping with DVDs at 480p or 576p.

Most people still had CRT televisions, and most of these couldn't accept progressive signals. The big thing in HTPC was to try to get high-quality interlaced signals into these TVs. In Europe, we had SCART inputs (still do), and you could persuade certain Matrox and ATI video cards to output interlaced video over a VGA to RGB-SCART cable. You had to be careful not to fry your TV when messing with custom resolutions in Linux (or Powerstrip under Windows). See, e.g. this related How-to on the DirectFB project .

Fun times. So you really had a lot of interlaced source material, and TVs that were well-adapted to displaying interlaced material. I still have a machine with a Matrox G400, but it seems to have died - I think it is the curse of the dodgy capacitors on my Abit NF7-S Rev2.

Yep - I have fond memories of my first home made HTPC with a Radeon running a VGA to SCART cable with a custom 1024x576/50i resolution in Powerstrip.

I'm pretty certain that the PC was de-interlacing and re-interlacing (and I remember having to use an XPMCE registry hack to get overscan compensation disabled)
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post #17 of 29
3/21/12 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

8.15.10.2622 is older. It's 8.15.10.2653. Download (the same as Windows update).

Thank you, odd that I don't see 2653 on Intel's site, wonder whats with that.
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post #18 of 29
3/21/12 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

Yep - I have fond memories of my first home made HTPC with a Radeon running a VGA to SCART cable with a custom 1024x576/50i resolution in Powerstrip.

I'm pretty certain that the PC was de-interlacing and re-interlacing (and I remember having to use an XPMCE registry hack to get overscan compensation disabled)

I think maybe only the Matrox cards could really do interlaced output along the whole video path. You also had to use the right software. Popular PC software such as mplayer couldn't handle interlaced video properly. See this thread, for example.
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post #19 of 29
3/23/12 at 8:45am
Ok, got 2653 loaded. My first impression without making any changes was the combing I had seen is almost completely gone, even looking for its hard to spot. Looking through the driver options, seems this driver is geared towards HTPC use. There is now an option to output YCbCr. The 3D options have been widdled down to two selections, and some of the choice descriptions have changed.
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post #20 of 29
3/23/12 at 3:12pm
Thread Starter 
Any benefits to engage YCbCr?
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post #21 of 29
3/24/12 at 4:37am
The driver supports YCbCr 4:4:4. RGB full can't stick (reset to limited at each boot).
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post #22 of 29
3/24/12 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The driver supports YCbCr 4:4:4. RGB full can't stick (reset to limited at each boot).

Don't shut down the htpc routinely. I can't remember the last time I turned mine off.

Thats one easy simple solution anyway.
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post #23 of 29
3/24/12 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Don't shut down the htpc routinely. I can't remember the last time I turned mine off.

Thats one easy simple solution anyway.

Unfortunately it reverts to "Limited" at each wake up from sleep too. (Or does this happen only in my system?)
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post #24 of 29
3/24/12 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Unfortunately it reverts to "Limited" at each wake up from sleep too. (Or does this happen only in my system?)

Mine too, I think it gets reset during the HDMI handshake. It knows its a TV and not a monitor so it wants to pass 16-235
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post #25 of 29
3/24/12 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Unfortunately it reverts to "Limited" at each wake up from sleep too. (Or does this happen only in my system?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTheater View Post

Mine too, I think it gets reset during the HDMI handshake. It knows its a TV and not a monitor so it wants to pass 16-235

Did you all change the registry files to switch it to full?
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post #26 of 29
3/24/12 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

Any benefits to engage YCbCr?

I think it depends on the source to display chain. Film and video are encoded in YCbCr and pc signals and video games are encoded as RGB. Ideally you want to convert the least amount of times possible.

Example: film=YCbCr >pc output=RGB >display input=RGB >display converts back to YCbCr.

Its hard to know what the display is actually doing though, converting back and forth can create errors in the process. I think errors will show up as banding in gradients.
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post #27 of 29
3/24/12 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Did you all change the registry files to switch it to full?

I haven't messed with that yet. You change the registy along with a custom resolution setting to get "full", is that correct?
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post #28 of 29
3/24/12 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTheater View Post

I haven't messed with that yet. You change the registy along with a custom resolution setting to get "full", is that correct?

Correct. Question is whether it applies to WMC or all of Windows.
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post #29 of 29
3/24/12 at 11:37am
I suppose you could set up two resolutions, 1080i RGB limited for WMC and 1080p RGB full for desktop and the display would auto switch. Then there would be the issue of Netflix/Hulu... I think they will run at the desktop rez. Might be a little cumbersome to calibrate.
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