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Official Samsung PNXXE7000 - PNXXE8000 owners thread - Page 59

post #1741 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

I have a PN60E8000 and i have a PN50C7000 ok so watching them in the day the e8000 is better then the c7000. Viewing at night they are amazing.during the afternoon that is one time of day just before sun set when the sun will shine into the room right on the set. My c7000 use to be in this spot where my new e8000 sits now. The sun shineing in on the c7000 was horrible but the e8000 is much better. but again the best viewing time is at night in my opinion. SO I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO WORRY. this tv is amazing. mine has no buzz or humm i love it

Thanks bargervais, its nice to have the reassurance of an actuall owner.
Edited by dmercer3 - 6/9/12 at 7:44pm
post #1742 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

i have a pn60e8000 the blacks are great my black bars are black matter a fact i love watching those black bars so much that i forget about the movie just kidding LOL
BUT MY BLACKS ARE BLACK are yours a grayish black???? please explain
Yes they are a grayish black. They are better than my 58C550 but don't appear to be anywhere close to the GT50 I had for a few days. I have played around with the settings. What is odd is the blacks seem better in the light than in the dark. I will be returning it.
post #1743 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesz_28 View Post

Yes they are a grayish black. They are better than my 58C550 but don't appear to be anywhere close to the GT50 I had for a few days. I have played around with the settings. What is odd is the blacks seem better in the light than in the dark. I will be returning it.

wow that's a first returning you tv because the black in letterbox bars are not black enough are you kidding
post #1744 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

wow that's a first returning you tv because the black in letterbox bars are not black enough are you kidding
Well since most of the movies I watch are not 1:85 and have bars it is an issue for me. It is very distracting. It wouldn't be if the tv wasn't so expensive and I had never seen the blacks on the GT50.
post #1745 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesz_28 View Post

Well since most of the movies I watch are not 1:85 and have bars it is an issue for me. It is very distracting. It wouldn't be if the tv wasn't so expensive and I had never seen the blacks on the GT50.

i thought you just returned a GT50 because you didn't like it's PQ
these tv's are not expensive you get alot for the money these cost alot less then tv's just ten years ago
Edited by bargervais - 6/9/12 at 8:40pm
post #1746 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

i thought you just returned a GT50 because you didn't like it's PQ
Yeah I did. I didn't say I wanted another GT50. I am saying I have now had both and they didn't past the test. I will have to pass on a new set this year.
post #1747 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesz_28 View Post

Yeah I did. I didn't say I wanted another GT50. I am saying I have now had both and they didn't past the test. I will have to pass on a new set this year.

so you bought these just to test drive them with no real intention in buying them because maybe you think they are too expensive????
post #1748 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesz_28 View Post

Yeah I did. I didn't say I wanted another GT50. I am saying I have now had both and they didn't past the test. I will have to pass on a new set this year.

I have to give you some credit here, if we all had your patience these manufacturers would be held to much higher standards and we would all have Kuro's quality or even surpassed by now.
post #1749 of 4281
I went through the basic settings of the AVS disc tonight in 2D mode using my blu-ray player. The settings I had in already are exactly what the AVS disc indicates:

For pattern 1 (black level/brightness) a setting of 47 is ideal with just bars 17-25 flashing and bar 16 is not. 48 works equally well with the same results but it says to use the lowest setting where 17-25 flash so that would be 47.

For pattern 2 (black level (brightness) 47-48 can work while keeping 19-28 flashing, with 17 just visible. 50 can work for this test too with 17 a bit more visible, but then going back to pattern 1, bar 16 (reference black) flashes so it seems the right thing is to keep it on 48 since that works for both patterns.

For patterns 2 and 3 (white level/contrast) 95 and even 100 work as it says use highest setting before 244 or lower disappears. I'd rather not have it on full 100 and CNET recommends 95 which seems to fit fine into this test.

For chapter 4, color and tint both look very good through a blue plastic lens from a pair of anaglyph 3D glasses.

For chapter 5, sharpness is best left on 0.

So there's my settings, which are exactly what I already had in there. I could bump my brightness up to 50 and I guess no harm would come? But that does make reference black bar 16 flash on pattern 1. Cell light is on 20 as CNET suggests, and I like that because at 20 the ABL is at its least aggressive.

So with my brightness at 48, most of the time the screen doesn't turn off during black scenes. CNET recommended 46 and for me it looks like it should be 47-48 ideally using the AVS disc. Again, anything under 48 and I have the problem with the screen turning off. It's been recommended in here if I keep it at 50 then that should never be a problem. As I said earlier I did observe it once or twice even at 50+ but that was only on 1 title; so far 48 seems to keep it under control. I might try 50 but again 50 seems a bit high for my set according to pattern 1.

According to some in here I have no idea how to adjust my settings and I have no interest in picture quality.
Edited by eagle_2 - 6/9/12 at 8:59pm
post #1750 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmercer3 View Post

I have to give you some credit here, if we all had your patience these manufacturers would be held to much higher standards and we would all have Kuro's quality or even surpassed by now.
Or, like Pioneer, both Panasonic, LG, Sharp and Samsung would be out of the TV business. eek.gif
post #1751 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

so you bought these just to test drive them with no real intention in buying them because maybe you think they are too expensive????
Yes I would keep them if they truly outperformed my 2 year old $1000 cheaper set. I guess I didn't mean expensive as much as I meant getting top quality for my hard earned money.
post #1752 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmercer3 View Post

I have to give you some credit here, if we all had your patience these manufacturers would be held to much higher standards and we would all have Kuro's quality or even surpassed by now.

he thinks these set are expensive you are buying a honda here and expecting it to be like maybe a Mercedes.
post #1753 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

he thinks these set are expensive you are buying a honda here and expect it to be like maybe a Mercedes.
I would return something expensive if it did not meet my expectations. I expect good quality and value for my money no matter how little or how much money I have.
post #1754 of 4281
I love how people in this forum think $2k-$3k is inexpensive for a tv. What type of jobs do you people have? $2k-$3k is a lot of money for a single piece of electronics that isn't a car. Just because there are $40,000 tvs doesn't mean these are inexpensive.
post #1755 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I love how people in this forum think $2k-$3k is inexpensive for a tv. What type of jobs do you people have? $2k-$3k is a lot of money for a single piece of electronics that isn't a car. Just because there are $40,000 tvs doesn't mean these are inexpensive.

Not to sure how anyone can consider a 2-3k tv inexpensive either. As someone said above, buying a 2k samsung plasma is like buying a honda as opposed to mercedes? Then my question is wtf is the mercedes of TV's? Is there some $20,000.00 plasma 60" tv that there is a realistic market for and I am just to lazy and poor to make enough money to afford?
post #1756 of 4281
I know it, huh? If my girlfriend told her co-workers at the office that we spent this much for the E8000 their jaws would drop. I think for 95% of the population these are considered quite expensive televisions and as such are expected to perform very well. My girlfriend's folks spent $550 for their 37" a year-and-a-half ago and I was actually surprised they spent that much because they tend not to be into technology very much. We haven't even told them how much we spent on this set because honestly money is tight for us and her folks would want to slap us both knowing we spent so much. I think some people don't understand the value of money and how hard it is for so many people to get it.
post #1757 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesz_28 View Post

What is odd is the blacks seem better in the light than in the dark. I will be returning it.

If I'm reading it correctly, then this isn't odd at all, and it's exactly how perceived black level/contrast works. It also depends on the content on screen, so the black bars could look really black if the rest of the image is very bright, but can also look grey again if it's a dark scene (it works the other way too, whites can appear blindingly white on a black background, but could look grey if there's

This illusion, for me, best demonstrates just how important perceived black level and contrast is - note that the squares marked A and B are both the same shade of grey!

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/lum_adelsonCheckShadow/index.html

This is Adelson's checker-shadow illusion, and I thought this part of his explanation on why this is the case was kind of appropriate given the discussions here:
Quote:
The visual system is not very good at being a physical light meter, but that is not its purpose. The important task is to break the image information down into meaningful components, and thereby perceive the nature of the objects in view.

Even without having better blacks (and they do), the Pannys will have better perceived blacks because their whites are brighter. A side by side comparison, or a completely black image with the lights turned off may be the only way the human visual system can accurately compare the black level differences between two TVs. For my viewing environment (moderately lit), the black bars actually seem blacker than the bezel of the E8000 (this becomes the opposite with the lights off though).
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

So with my brightness at 48, most of the time the screen doesn't turn off during black scenes. CNET recommended 46 and for me it looks like it should be 47-48 ideally using the AVS disc. Again, anything under 48 and I have the problem with the screen turning off.

I suspected the AVS patterns might suggest a slightly higher brightness setting for your set than the Cnet or other's posted settings, since I get 45 for the first test, and I'm guessing if Cnet had ran the same test on their calibrated set, it would have been 45 too. Going one above this setting seems to do the trick, and it shouldn't affect black level performance in any perceivable way.
post #1758 of 4281
Am I still getting 24p output without CinemaSmooth enabled? I know CinemaSmooth is just 24p to 96p with evenly duplicated frames rather than interpolation, but I still can't get used to how it looks. But if it's the only way to get proper 24p output then I'll just get over it for the sake of proper display...

I have 24p enabled on my PS3 and it reports 24p when I press info.
post #1759 of 4281
I'm curious about the MPEG noise filter and the digital noise filter. I have my FIOS box going into HDMI 1 and my receiver with all my other devices going into HDMI 2. I would never use the filters for HDMI 2 (media player/blu-ray/DVD), but for my FIOS channels, which can certainly show digital compression, sometimes pretty heavy, does it make sense to leave either of those effects enabled for HDMI 1 to clean up the FIOS channels a bit? I also keep the cropping for HDMI 1 set to 16:9 so I can use the pixel orbiter since FIOS viewing isn't critically important for me, so I thought maybe the filters would actually benefit me when viewing cable channels. Does anybody use those filters for cable viewing and does it help?
post #1760 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Or, like Pioneer, both Panasonic, LG, Sharp and Samsung would be out of the TV business. eek.gif

buy a Pioneer PDP-6020FD 60-Inch Class KURO Plasma HDTV Price: $5,999.99 samsung at 2k to 3k are not expensive you get a lot of bang for your buck. these e8000's are feature rich.
thats all i was trying to say 2k to3k is still alot of money for a tv but relative to a kuro the e8000's are a great deal.

it just burns me up these people that return set after set and just because they don't like the black bars on a letterbox movie are not black enough.

i like what LastMinuteGoal said

I'm reading it correctly, then this isn't odd at all, and it's exactly how perceived black level/contrast works. It also depends on the content on screen, so the black bars could look really black if the rest of the image is very bright, but can also look grey again if it's a dark scene (it works the other way too, whites can appear blindingly white on a black background, but could look grey if there's

This illusion, for me, best demonstrates just how important perceived black level and contrast is - note that the squares marked A and B are both the same shade of grey!

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/lum_adelsonCheckShadow/index.html

This is Adelson's checker-shadow illusion, and I thought this part of his explanation on why this is the case was kind of appropriate given the discussions here:

Quote:
The visual system is not very good at being a physical light meter, but that is not its purpose. The important task is to break the image information down into meaningful components, and thereby perceive the nature of the objects in view.

Even without having better blacks (and they do), the Pannys will have better perceived blacks because their whites are brighter. A side by side comparison, or a completely black image with the lights turned off may be the only way the human visual system can accurately compare the black level differences between two TVs. For my viewing environment (moderately lit), the black bars actually seem blacker than the bezel of the E8000 (this becomes the opposite with the lights off though).
Edited by bargervais - 6/10/12 at 6:41am
post #1761 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

buy a Pioneer PDP-6020FD 60-Inch Class KURO Plasma HDTV Price: $5,999.99 samsung at 2k to 3k are not expensive you get a lot of bang for your buck. these e8000's are feature rich.
thats all i was trying to say 2k to3k is still alot of money for a tv but relative to a kuro the e8000's are a great deal.
it just burns me up these people that return set after set and just because they don't like the black bars on a letterbox movie are not black enough.
i like what LastMinuteGoal said
I'm reading it correctly, then this isn't odd at all, and it's exactly how perceived black level/contrast works. It also depends on the content on screen, so the black bars could look really black if the rest of the image is very bright, but can also look grey again if it's a dark scene (it works the other way too, whites can appear blindingly white on a black background, but could look grey if there's
This illusion, for me, best demonstrates just how important perceived black level and contrast is - note that the squares marked A and B are both the same shade of grey!
http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/lum_adelsonCheckShadow/index.html
This is Adelson's checker-shadow illusion, and I thought this part of his explanation on why this is the case was kind of appropriate given the discussions here:
Quote:
The visual system is not very good at being a physical light meter, but that is not its purpose. The important task is to break the image information down into meaningful components, and thereby perceive the nature of the objects in view.
Even without having better blacks (and they do), the Pannys will have better perceived blacks because their whites are brighter. A side by side comparison, or a completely black image with the lights turned off may be the only way the human visual system can accurately compare the black level differences between two TVs. For my viewing environment (moderately lit), the black bars actually seem blacker than the bezel of the E8000 (this becomes the opposite with the lights off though).

I agree with you whole heartily about the perceived black levels. Probably isnt the best idea to spend the 2-3k on a tv BEFORE you know if it meets your expectations.

Do note however KURO's are not 6k... I assume you found that on Amazon, I just hope you are aware they are not made anymore and the inflated price is for that reason alone. The only people paying that are extreme enthusiasts..
post #1762 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmercer3 View Post

I agree with you whole heartily about the perceived black levels. Probably isnt the best idea to spend the 2-3k on a tv BEFORE you know if it meets your expectations.
Do note however KURO's are not 6k... I assume you found that on Amazon, I just hope you are aware they are not made anymore and the inflated price is for that reason alone. The only people paying that are extreme enthusiasts..

i stand corrected about the Pioneer but i still think that when you buy a sammy or panny they are still a good deal at 2k to 3k ....
i could buy a cheap tv but i would hate it i have had tv's under a thousand dollars and that's why i think these tv's are a good deal
thats just my opinion
Edited by bargervais - 6/10/12 at 8:08am
post #1763 of 4281
Throw some backlights on the back of the TV and you won't notice the letterbox bars, gives it a nice effect to like at the movies. The PQ on this TV is really good, day or night, I am impressed and happy. i've watched The Help, Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol, Hugo in 3D, plus various Directv content. By the way, whatever TV you have watch "How it's Made" on the Science channel (284 on Diirectv), it has excellent PQ content.

Eagle2, regarding contrast level. Do any of you calibration disks have a Clipping test. Spears & Munsil has a clipping test pattern that shows a screen with a white, red, green and blue box. The contrast setting that passes the test is around 74-83 where the concentric squares appear in the blue and red boxes. At 85 or above the blue and red squares are solid.
Edited by ruiz00tx - 6/10/12 at 10:43am
post #1764 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruiz00tx View Post

Throw some backlights on the back of the TV and you won't notice the letterbox bars. The PQ on this TV is really good, day or night.
Eagle2, regarding contrast level. Do any of you calibration disks have a Clipping test. Spears & Munsil has a clipping test pattern that shows a screen with a white, red, green and blue box. The contrast setting that passes the test is around 74-83.

thats a great tip throwing a back lite behind the tv
i use the DVE HD BASICS BLU-RAY disk
Edited by bargervais - 6/10/12 at 11:05am
post #1765 of 4281
Here are my day settings, just regular menu tweaks I don't know enough to mess with gamma settings so all the really advanced stuff are on default settings.

Picture mode Standard
Cell light 20
Contrast 90
Brightness 50
Sharpness 35
Color 51
Tint 50/50
Picture size Screen fit
Color tone Standard


I think all the advanced settings are default but here they are:
Dynamic contrast Off
Black tone Off
Flesh tone 0
RGB only mode Off
Color space Auto
Gamma 0

Edited these today, the higher contrast gives more pop and a wow factor during the day.
Motion lighting Off
Edited by ruiz00tx - 6/11/12 at 3:45pm
post #1766 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I know it, huh? If my girlfriend told her co-workers at the office that we spent this much for the E8000 their jaws would drop. I think for 95% of the population these are considered quite expensive televisions and as such are expected to perform very well. My girlfriend's folks spent $550 for their 37" a year-and-a-half ago and I was actually surprised they spent that much because they tend not to be into technology very much. We haven't even told them how much we spent on this set because honestly money is tight for us and her folks would want to slap us both knowing we spent so much. I think some people don't understand the value of money and how hard it is for so many people to get it.

those people are not considering how much the prices have fallen ( and quality gone up) in the past 5 years

ask someone who spent 5K on a 63" samsung Plasma 5 years ago that can now but a TV that is better ..in every way...for 40% less

Another thought

I bought a Sony 32" in 1995 for $800...and that was a very good price
That $800 will buy you a 46" LED today...and thats even adjusted for inflation

These things have gotten like computers...
the price drops every year
3-4 year old units are pretty dated

Warren
post #1767 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

those people are not considering how much the prices have fallen ( and quality gone up) in the past 5 years
ask someone who spent 5K on a 63" samsung Plasma 5 years ago that can now but a TV that is better ..in every way...for 40% less
Another thought
I bought a Sony 32" in 1995 for $800...and that was a very good price
That $800 will buy you a 46" LED today...and thats even adjusted for inflation
These things have gotten like computers...
the price drops every year
3-4 year old units are pretty dated
Warren

as technology advances you get more for your money 7 years ago i bought a 50inch diamond series rear projection hd tv for$3,500 because i couldn't afford a flat panel back then
post #1768 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruiz00tx View Post

Throw some backlights on the back of the TV and you won't notice the letterbox bars, gives it a nice effect to like at the movies. The PQ on this TV is really good, day or night, I am impressed and happy. i've watched The Help, Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol, Hugo in 3D, plus various Directv content. By the way, whatever TV you have watch "How it's Made" on the Science channel (284 on Diirectv), it has excellent PQ content.
Eagle2, regarding contrast level. Do any of you calibration disks have a Clipping test. Spears & Munsil has a clipping test pattern that shows a screen with a white, red, green and blue box. The contrast setting that passes the test is around 74-83 where the concentric squares appear in the blue and red boxes. At 85 or above the blue and red squares are solid.

The AVS disc does have clipping patterns - I'll throw that in later this evening and see what I get.

I agree with the perceived contrast people are talking about - I like the idea of a backlight. I think it looks really classy and helps with the perceived contrast as well. Actually I think it would be awesome if these sets came with built-in backlighting that could be turned on or off with the remote. I guess we can't have everything in these sets, although I'd trade in the goofy hand gestures and voice recognition for built-in backlighting.

Would backlighting be effective for those who have the tv on a stand as opposed to the wall? I see pictures of backlit tvs on walls but I'm curious if anybody does that with their tvs on a stand? I would think it would still help some maybe?
post #1769 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

The AVS disc does have clipping patterns - I'll throw that in later this evening and see what I get.
I agree with the perceived contrast people are talking about - I like the idea of a backlight. I think it looks really classy and helps with the perceived contrast as well. Actually I think it would be awesome if these sets came with built-in backlighting that could be turned on or off with the remote. I guess we can't have everything in these sets, although I'd trade in the goofy hand gestures and voice recognition for built-in backlighting.
Would backlighting be effective for those who have the tv on a stand as opposed to the wall? I see pictures of backlit tvs on walls but I'm curious if anybody does that with their tvs on a stand? I would think it would still help some maybe?

I like your idea about built in backlighting, but it's fairly easy to put your own in and I don't think the tv companies are going to do that for ya. Completely dark room isn't nearly as good as one that's got proper lighting (I like to say darkened).. Have you so far been in a completely dark room when viewing?
post #1770 of 4281
The black level on these models should still be better than pretty much anything aside from the latest Panasonics and the Elites though right? .0045fl should be darker than last year's VT30 which I thought was pretty good. I certainly wouldn't have described it as dark grey. I'm thinking of going from a 50" ST50 to a 60" E8000 and was hoping that the blacks would be fairly close but some people's comments here have me second guessing the reviews I've read.
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