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Official Samsung PNXXE7000 - PNXXE8000 owners thread - Page 104

post #3091 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps58 View Post

I was going through same thoughts as you for over two months finally pulled the trigger on the 51e7000 for $800 all the worries I had ( IR PQ BUZZING...) not one problem everything is great this coming from a person that really wanted a panny not saying panny is bad just saying love this tv feel foolish for two months of worrying.

Good to know. I'll be ordering that model soon and have had those same concerns. If you don't mind my asking (or if it's not against the rules) where did you get it for $800?
post #3092 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

Can you explain what aspect is incorrectly done? In 60hz mode it does the first frame 2 times, the second one 3 times, the third 2 times, the fourth 3 times... (3,2,3,2,3,2,3,2 AKA 3:2 pulldown). Each frame is not shown for an equal amount of time, and thus 60hz is incorrectly done.
Cine Smooth just repeats each frame 4 times. 4:4 pulldown; which equals 96hz (24fps x 4 = 96hz). Each frame is shown for an equal amount of time and thus CS is done correctly.

I wish I could but Jeff didn't have a specific explanation - he just watched it (Casino Royale scenes) with CS engaged and said that it was doing something akin to interpolation and was not film-like in appearance, definitely inferior to the appearance of the same scenes with 3:2 pulldown. He was not surprised by this failing because the Pannys are worse. He said that only the Pio Kuros (displaying at 24hz with no multiplying) of the non-front projectors get it right.
post #3093 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerchiarax View Post

The majority say only difference is the added camera and voice feature. But others say the picture is better on the E8000. Another thing to think about is the 51 inch of both tvs supposedly are more subjectable to IR then 60 inch. And some say blacks are also better on 60 inch.

Well, when you pay more, you want it to look better. wink.gif
post #3094 of 4281
Although the 7000 & 8000 are extremely close in picture quality the clear image panel which is on the 8000 only does make a difference. Its hard to describe but you notice it if watching a program with a logo at the bottom of the screen. It almost seems like the logo is floating in the air in front of the picture as opposed to being on the panel. I have the 64e8000 & I also happen to own the 55 inch vt50 & I feel the 8000 has a slightly better picture, Clearer & sharper. As far as the blacks they basically blend in with the bezel on the 8000, the 7000, and the vt50 so if you need a meter to tell you which has the deepest black whats the difference at that point.
post #3095 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerreed View Post

Good to know. I'll be ordering that model soon and have had those same concerns. If you don't mind my asking (or if it's not against the rules) where did you get it for $800?
At best buy they had it for $999 and they are giving a $200 bb gift card with it.
post #3096 of 4281
What i like most about the e7000 ,is u get the best of both worlds, the rich deep colors of a plasma and the clarity and sharpness of an led
post #3097 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

I wish I could but Jeff didn't have a specific explanation - he just watched it (Casino Royale scenes) with CS engaged and said that it was doing something akin to interpolation and was not film-like in appearance, definitely inferior to the appearance of the same scenes with 3:2 pulldown. He was not surprised by this failing because the Pannys are worse. He said that only the Pio Kuros (displaying at 24hz with no multiplying) of the non-front projectors get it right.
The bottom line is that Jeff has no explanation. He cannot make this judgement based on his eyes. There is no interpolation on these sets, period. Panny's do interpolate, but that can be turned off for 48hz mode, which introduces flickering. There is no flickering due to 96hz on a plasma. CS is used to achieve proper film cadence. Perhaps your TV has such better motion handling than Jeff's TV that he is assuming yours interpolates. Jeff is all alone on this as I have never heard anything to support his claim in over a year of researching the D and E series plasmas. As a matter of fact, everything contradicts Jeff in every way. Trust me, leave CS on as it is a big selling point of these TVs to repeat each frame 4 times on 24p content, just as a movie projector repeats frames 4 times. CS is the only way to handle film correctly, 60hz is not.

Straight from CNET reviews of the D and E series:

D: "While the PND7000 can handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" we give it below), we didn't take advantage of that feature. That's because engaging CinemaSmooth caused black levels to worsen as noted above."

E: "As I noted above, the biggest improvement from last year is the fact that engaging CinemaSmooth, which worked well to impart correct film cadence with 1080p/24 sources in our tests, didn't cause any appreciable loss in black-level performance."

There are many more sources praising CS for its proper handling of film. If you do not believe me, tell Jeff to prove me wrong!
post #3098 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

ISF by UMR (Jeff Meier) last night of my 64PN7000.
Thank for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post #2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Did UMR work on your audio?
post #3099 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

The bottom line is that Jeff has no explanation. He cannot make this judgement based on his eyes. There is no interpolation on these sets, period. Panny's do interpolate, but that can be turned off for 48hz mode, which introduces flickering. There is no flickering due to 96hz on a plasma. CS is used to achieve proper film cadence. Perhaps your TV has such better motion handling than Jeff's TV that he is assuming yours interpolates. Jeff is all alone on this as I have never heard anything to support his claim in over a year of researching the D and E series plasmas. As a matter of fact, everything contradicts Jeff in every way. Trust me, leave CS on as it is a big selling point of these TVs to repeat each frame 4 times on 24p content, just as a movie projector repeats frames 4 times. CS is the only way to handle film correctly, 60hz is not.
Straight from CNET reviews of the D and E series:
D: "While the PND7000 can handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" we give it below), we didn't take advantage of that feature. That's because engaging CinemaSmooth caused black levels to worsen as noted above."
E: "As I noted above, the biggest improvement from last year is the fact that engaging CinemaSmooth, which worked well to impart correct film cadence with 1080p/24 sources in our tests, didn't cause any appreciable loss in black-level performance."
There are many more sources praising CS for its proper handling of film. If you do not believe me, tell Jeff to prove me wrong!
[quote

The black level issue is a distinct one. That was not the problem. As for the rest, you are obviously quite happy with CS. Super. As I am not judder sensitive, 60hz works fine for me. This is not my primary 2D set - the Kuro is - so I have no subjective desire for the CS to work perfectly or not. Perhaps it does work on other Sammys and mine is screwy. Or maybe the Panny BDP-500 is flawed. I don't know. If an ISF/THX certified engineer tells me it isn't worth activating, I believe him. His experience and instruments tell him that sets that display 24 fps in multipliers typically do it incorrectly. He believed the set was flawed, not the Panny BDP. You want the CS at 96 to be perfect - I understand. You are pretty new to the forum and aren't familiar with UMR. Relax a bit and you'll fine the AVS experience more enjoyable.
Edited by Trackman - 12/15/12 at 6:07pm
post #3100 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Thank for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post #2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
Did UMR work on your audio?

Yes, he did. NHT 3.1 system (Infinity sub) and Pio VSX-01 AVR. The mains are Absolute Towers - he really liked them! There aren't many choices for a slender true 3 way sealed tower. smile.gif
post #3101 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

I wish I could but Jeff didn't have a specific explanation - he just watched it (Casino Royale scenes) with CS engaged and said that it was doing something akin to interpolation and was not film-like in appearance, definitely inferior to the appearance of the same scenes with 3:2 pulldown. He was not surprised by this failing because the Pannys are worse. He said that only the Pio Kuros (displaying at 24hz with no multiplying) of the non-front projectors get it right.
The bottom line is that Jeff has no explanation. He cannot make this judgement based on his eyes. There is no interpolation on these sets, period. Panny's do interpolate, but that can be turned off for 48hz mode, which introduces flickering. There is no flickering due to 96hz on a plasma. CS is used to achieve proper film cadence. Perhaps your TV has such better motion handling than Jeff's TV that he is assuming yours interpolates. Jeff is all alone on this as I have never heard anything to support his claim in over a year of researching the D and E series plasmas. As a matter of fact, everything contradicts Jeff in every way. Trust me, leave CS on as it is a big selling point of these TVs to repeat each frame 4 times on 24p content, just as a movie projector repeats frames 4 times. CS is the only way to handle film correctly, 60hz is not.

Straight from CNET reviews of the D and E series:

D: "While the PND7000 can handle 1080p/24 sources with proper cadence thanks to its CinemaSmooth mode (hence the "Pass" we give it below), we didn't take advantage of that feature. That's because engaging CinemaSmooth caused black levels to worsen as noted above."

E: "As I noted above, the biggest improvement from last year is the fact that engaging CinemaSmooth, which worked well to impart correct film cadence with 1080p/24 sources in our tests, didn't cause any appreciable loss in black-level performance."

There are many more sources praising CS for its proper handling of film. If you do not believe me, tell Jeff to prove me wrong!
You seem to be new here so I don't know you. I do know something about CNET and Jeff (UMR). I'll go with Jeff's judgment where display functions are concerned. Don't expect anyone to prove anything. smile.gif
post #3102 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Thank for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post #2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
Did UMR work on your audio?

Yes, he did. NHT 3.1 system (Infinity sub) and Pio VSX-01 AVR. The mains are Absolute Towers - he really liked them! There aren't many choices for a slender true 3 way sealed tower. smile.gif
Thanks. It will help other owners if you added something about the audio results to your original post. Enjoy. smile.gif
post #3103 of 4281
I have been trying my 64e8000 for a bit here and it does have a bad buzz but it is really directional as already stated. If I point the tv down really at all I hear the buzz. I have moved it up around 6 inches as well to make it more quiet. Also seems like a slightly greenish strip on a grey slide which seems to be maybe 8 inches wide or so. Anyone have this before and if do did it lessen with more hours? Otherwise this tv looks pretty good. It looks nice compared to Panasonic. I don't see that the blacks are any less either really.
post #3104 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by gramps58 View Post

At best buy they had it for $999 and they are giving a $200 bb gift card with it.

Thanks. . .
post #3105 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

You seem to be new here so I don't know you. I do know something about CNET and Jeff (UMR). I'll go with Jeff's judgment where display functions are concerned. Don't expect anyone to prove anything. smile.gif
Sorry, but it sounds like Jeff has no explanation other than watching a few scenes from Casino Royale. I am sure Jeff is a great calibrator, but spoke too soon. I have never heard a single complaint about CS until now. I know CNET can be hit or miss, but I will go with them since they test for cadence using patterns; against Jeff's naked eye, and the fact that all these sets do is repeat frames. CS does not remove judder that is present in the source. It is just 4:4 pulldown. How can you go with 3:2 pulldown vs 4:4? I really want an explanation so I can better understand how my TV functions.

Furthermore, I live in Hayward... care to come calibrate my set, lol? I only did a basic WOW calibration.

Also, the rising black issue is an issue only on the 2011 D series, not the E series. That is not why I posted it, as it was coincidental that the issue was mentioned where CNET gave it a pass on motion handling. I am awaiting Jeff's explanation as I am very interested on what his perception is based off of. I am totally fine with being wrong, as long as he can explain it to me.
Edited by Icon13 - 12/15/12 at 11:54pm
post #3106 of 4281
When do the new Samsung models usually go on sale in the US? They reveal them in January at the CES show, correct? Are they usually available soon after that, or do they wait a few months? I ask because I may just return this e8000 and wait for the f(?)7000/8000 in January/February.
post #3107 of 4281
PLEASE HELP:

3D Crosstalk:

It good then starts, its in some movies not others! Can someone give a 3D newbie some settings/advice for how to improve this please>>

I do know not all source material is good so what I am looking for is settings, or maybe a process like when to sync the glasses...what happens if you pause the movie!
Plus playing Black Ops in 3d..Crosstalk was so horrible I got killed a lot eek.gif
post #3108 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

Sorry, but it sounds like Jeff has no explanation other than watching a few scenes from Casino Royale. I am sure Jeff is a great calibrator, but spoke too soon. I have never heard a single complaint about CS until now. I know CNET can be hit or miss, but I will go with them since they test for cadence using patterns; against Jeff's naked eye, and the fact that all these sets do is repeat frames. CS does not remove judder that is present in the source. It is just 4:4 pulldown. How can you go with 3:2 pulldown vs 4:4? I really want an explanation so I can better understand how my TV functions.
Furthermore, I live in Hayward... care to come calibrate my set, lol? I only did a basic WOW calibration.
Also, the rising black issue is an issue only on the 2011 D series, not the E series. That is not why I posted it, as it was coincidental that the issue was mentioned where CNET gave it a pass on motion handling. I am awaiting Jeff's explanation as I am very interested on what his perception is based off of. I am totally fine with being wrong, as long as he can explain it to me.

He did measure and explain. I am simply incapable of repeating it correctly. Present your question to Jeff at his website - maybe he will answer. Homecinemaguru.com
post #3109 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Thanks. It will help other owners if you added something about the audio results to your original post. Enjoy. smile.gif

I would love to, only the mains were just a month old and the center only 10 days, so I have no subjective basis for comparison. And, unlike past calibrations, Jeff did not print out sound graphs (it was late when we finished). I will say that I listened to/watched Prometheus last night and it was fantastic in the audio department.
post #3110 of 4281
I've had a 64e7000 for almost a month now. Picture is great but, the buzzing is killing me. Had same problem with D series from last year before buying VT30. Decided to give Samsung another shot because of Panny IR problems. This would be the fourth time I've returned a Samsung plasma(third for excessive buzzing) .Any owners have a 64e7000 with no excessive buzzing? This is gonna be mostly gaming tv and I've had problems with VT30 IR/ burn in so, that's why I keep looking at Samsungs. Both TVs have their pros and cons but, the IR and loud buzzing is making me think LED for gaming but there isn't much quality available for less than $5000. Do I dare try to buy a LED es8000 ? (lots of issues with those as well).
post #3111 of 4281
Smart TVs can spy on their owners

Viewers, beware: while you’re watching TV, your TV might be watching you back. A security firm discovered that Samsung’s Smart TV can give hackers access to the device’s built-in camera and microphones, allowing them to watch everything you do.

The Malta-based firm ReVuln posted a video showing its team of researchers hacking into one of the Samsung TVs and accessing its settings, channel lists, widgets, USB drives, and remote control configurations. The security flaw allows hackers to access any and all personal data stored on the TV.

“We can install malicious software to gain complete root access to the TV,” the video writes.

With this access, hackers can use the Smart TVs built-in camera and microphones to see and hear everything in front of it. Instead of just watching TV, viewers could themselves be watched without knowing it.

But this flaw isn’t present in just one specific model. The vulnerability affects all 11 Samsung televisions of the latest generation. The Smart TVs have many of the same features as a computer, but lack the same kind of protection. The devices do not have security features such as firewalls and antivirus software.

Fortunately for concerned viewers, the problem has a silver lining: hackers must first breach the network that the television is connected to, as well as know the IP address of the device. As a result, security breaches would likely only occur as a targeted attack against an individual, rather than randomly. Unlike an Internet virus, a hacker would have to exploit the network manually.

More

http://rt.com/usa/news/smart-tv-security-access-092/
post #3112 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by supernsa View Post

I've had a 64e7000 for almost a month now. Picture is great but, the buzzing is killing me. Had same problem with D series from last year before buying VT30. Decided to give Samsung another shot because of Panny IR problems. This would be the fourth time I've returned a Samsung plasma(third for excessive buzzing) .Any owners have a 64e7000 with no excessive buzzing? This is gonna be mostly gaming tv and I've had problems with VT30 IR/ burn in so, that's why I keep looking at Samsungs. Both TVs have their pros and cons but, the IR and loud buzzing is making me think LED for gaming but there isn't much quality available for less than $5000. Do I dare try to buy a LED es8000 ? (lots of issues with those as well).

If it means anything, I used to think the buzzing was simply a HF noise that only some could hear (like myself) and others couldn't. I have a 59D7000, and I have loud buzzing. Then I visited my sister and her husband after they got their 64D7000, and they have no buzzing. So I guess it does exist.

Too bad I'm sticking with my set, for better or worse. It pisses me the **** off, but there's nothing I can really do. If I replace the panel, I'll feel like all of my breaking in efforts and calibrating will have gone to waste after 15 months of ownership.
post #3113 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

He did measure and explain. I am simply incapable of repeating it correctly. Present your question to Jeff at his website - maybe he will answer. Homecinemaguru.com
I did and his only explanation is that it looks too smooth. That is not based on any measurements, but a hunch. I think it is unfair to misinform prospective buyers on this forum that these sets interpolate frames without any solid evidence of it. Perhaps the 96hz 4:4 pull down is done so well that it looks very smooth. However, not once has anything that I viewed on my plasma had the smooth "soap opera" effect of 120hz/240hz LCDs.
Edited by Icon13 - 12/16/12 at 7:24pm
post #3114 of 4281
I have a friend that has an 60es8000. I went over a few months ago with my PC to test the input lag. I tested Marvel vs Capcom 3 (PS3), Starcraft 2, and BF 3 (PC). Picture is amazing for games, however if you are an ultra competitive gamer I would suggest trying to find a Sammy Plasma that works for you. I can definitely feel the lag. However, it is better than last years models.

I'm about to go for the 51pne7000 and I honestly don't care how many times it takes for me to return. I cannot game on LED/LCD with their current input lag.
post #3115 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

I really want an explanation so I can better understand how my TV functions.

Furthermore, I live in Hayward... care to come calibrate my set, lol? I only did a basic WOW calibration.
You just missed a great opportunity to get your questions answered and have Jeff (UMR) calibrate your display. He is just finishing his December tour in California.

You don't want me calibrating your display. I have no better skill or knowledge of calibration than 99% of owners. wink.gif
post #3116 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Thanks. It will help other owners if you added something about the audio results to your original post. Enjoy. smile.gif

I would love to, only the mains were just a month old and the center only 10 days, so I have no subjective basis for comparison. And, unlike past calibrations, Jeff did not print out sound graphs (it was late when we finished). I will say that I listened to/watched Prometheus last night and it was fantastic in the audio department.
You could use the "edit" command and put that into your original post. Very few calibrators also do audio calibration so it helps those that go to the owner reports thread to know something about those who do.
post #3117 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

You could use the "edit" command and put that into your original post. Very few calibrators also do audio calibration so it helps those that go to the owner reports thread to know something about those who do.

Will do.
post #3118 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

I did and his only explanation is that it looks too smooth. That is not based on any measurements, but a hunch. I think it is unfair to misinform prospective buyers on this forum that these sets interpolate frames without any solid evidence of it. Perhaps the 96hz 4:4 pull down is done so well that it looks very smooth. However, not once has anything that I viewed on my plasma had the smooth "soap opera" effect of 120hz/240hz LCDs.

How it looks is all that matters. Visual observation by a certified, experienced calibrator is the most solid evidence. It didn't look right to him so he chose 60 hz instead Makes sense to me. The Kuro does a true 24 fps which I do have engaged per Jeff's calibration. He saw a difference between the two sets in that regard.
post #3119 of 4281
Sorry, who's Jeff? The CNET guy?

Is he still in California?
post #3120 of 4281
The Samsung does true 24p as well with no pulldown.
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