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Official Samsung PNXXE7000 - PNXXE8000 owners thread - Page 132

post #3931 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Are you posting with a smart phone? eek.gif

Working, on a phone meeting, and typing the post at the same time,.......sometmes doing more.....
tongue.gif
post #3932 of 4281
What's the general consensus comparing the new F8500 to this threads E8000? I know the F series is brighter but other than that is it all that much better or different?
post #3933 of 4281
It's quite a bit better. One of the best yet, from what I've read.

But, is it worth twice as much? There is no right or wrong answer to that question. smile.gif
post #3934 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

What's the general consensus comparing the new F8500 to this threads E8000? I know the F series is brighter but other than that is it all that much better or different?

EDIT: lets try this again...

Generally yes its a better set all around...better blacks and a set thats able to get brighter......Is the price difference worth it? only you can decide that wink.gif

Of course you could always get the E8000 and then add the Evolution kit to get the quad core prcocs and newer interface as well...choices choices......
post #3935 of 4281
Well, BB was willing to give me an E8000 at the same price but only had an open box no other store had any or the warehouse. I passed. I half joked that they could give me an F8500 for the E7000 price but they didn't go for that smile.gif Panny ST60 at a discount is coming on Sat. Need to find the official thread. Hopefully I will like it as much as my C7000.
post #3936 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkwi View Post

Well, BB was willing to give me an E8000 at the same price but only had an open box no other store had any or the warehouse. I passed. I half joked that they could give me an F8500 for the E7000 price but they didn't go for that smile.gif Panny ST60 at a discount is coming on Sat. Need to find the official thread. Hopefully I will like it as much as my C7000.

From what I have read the ST60 is a great set, so youll probably enjoy it wink.gif
post #3937 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by abalone View Post

I assume this was a reply to my post. Turns out a panel replacement includes nearly the entire TV except the frame. All the boards except one are included with the new panel. I suppose it could be something on the one board that didn't get replaced. But one key point is the pattern of blotches changed a lot from one panel to the other. So something in the parts they replaced made a big difference, but obviously didn't solve the issue. It's now difficult to see a lack of uniformity on solid white or grey slides, and I don't see it at all on grass fields (golf, baseball and soccer) like I did before. If I was a big hockey fan I'd definitely be looking for another TV. But so far hockey is the only place I've really noticed it, and I only watch that occasionally. I'd really like to know what's causing it though.

Here's another pic showing how the pink areas can nearly disappear. When watching moving video it's like the blotches bloom and fade as the camera moves but not directly related to how much white is on the screen. This is the same section of the panel as the shot above:
Weird. U have video proff of the issue. I would press samsung. If the panel replacement dud fix it I would ask them for a new TV
post #3938 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by atcdav View Post

Weird. U have video proff of the issue. I would press samsung. If the panel replacement dud fix it I would ask them for a new TV

Since I reported the original problem to Best Buy within the 15 day return period I've contacted them to see how to proceed. I've also contacted Samsung and they've agreed the problem is in the TV and suggested I open a repair order. The more I watch this TV the more I like it so I really want it fixed rather than going with another brand or model.

Several forum posts I've found indicate the same problem was fixed by having the power supply replaced or having the voltages adjusted on the board. That's the one board that's not replaced by swapping the panel, so it may be my problem.
Edited by abalone - 4/5/13 at 6:21am
post #3939 of 4281
Hi guys hows your eye strain when watching a 3D movie with cinema smooth enabled and disabled? At least for me I get huge eye strain and start getting a headache when cinema smooth is disabled. Not really sure why as I know for a fact that 3D movies are supposed to be watched with cinema smooth disabled to get full 120HZ. I wonder if its because most of the 3D films I watch are SBS and using a WD Live player to play them.
post #3940 of 4281
Does anyone know what your going to do when the evolution kit comes out looks like it's going to be $299.00. I think I will get it for my PN60E8000 because I'm just getting close to one year old so I'm not going to buy the PN60F8500 this year.
Edited by bargervais - 4/5/13 at 5:06pm
post #3941 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerchiarax View Post

Hi guys hows your eye strain when watching a 3D movie with cinema smooth enabled and disabled? At least for me I get huge eye strain and start getting a headache when cinema smooth is disabled. Not really sure why as I know for a fact that 3D movies are supposed to be watched with cinema smooth disabled to get full 120HZ. I wonder if its because most of the 3D films I watch are SBS and using a WD Live player to play them.

You know when I first got my PN60E8000 I couldn't sit through a whole 3D movie as I would get eye strain and little head ache but as I got use to it I have no trouble now. As far as cinema smooth enabled or disabled it doesn't matter much to me now.
post #3942 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

Does anyone know what your going to do when the evolution kit comes out looks like it's going to be $299.00. I think I will get it for my PN60E8000 because I'm just getting close to one year old so I'm not going to buy the PN60F8500 this year.

If youre happy with your TV then I see no "need" to upgrade. The evolution kit gives you some of the 2013 benifits (better processor and 2013 Smart TV interface) for a resonable price of around $300 US......Also, according to Samsung you should be able to get upgrades for the next 4-5 years (from the date of manufactuer...For those not looking to upgrade thier TV but wouldl like some type of upgrade this allows them to accomplish this.....
post #3943 of 4281
Spending the last 2 weeks wading though this thread has been hell (80% of that time spent on buzzing arguments...). And jesus christ, people are already moving on to the next model Samsung or Panny, in this model specific thread! (f-ing frustrating, stay on topic people)

I wanted to help out those few that don't want all that noise, and just want to set up their sweet new toy.

Calibration
Use Disney Wow or AVS 709 (http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration) for basic calibration.
Use a color meter before messing with the white levels.

I should have probably saved them as I came across them, but here are a few I was able to find after searching for an hour.
(Chad, don't be scared homie, post your results.)
Quote:
CNET hdtvtest.co.uk bargervais Icon13 (WoW, 2D) boondongle ruiz00tx simonoaks
Picture Mode Movie movie Movie movie movie Standard movie
Cell Light 20 default ↓ 20 20 20 20
Contrast 95 (3D - defaults to max, suggested lower, not specified) 93 87 98 90 100
Brightness 45 48 43 46 50 49
Sharpness 0 0 10 6 20 35 12
Color 50 52 49 +1? 51 52
Tint 50/50 50/50 51/49 50/50 51/49
Screen Adjustment Menu
Picture Size Screen Fit screen fit screen fit screen fit screen fit
Position [no change] [no change]
3D Menu n/a n/a
Advanced Settings Menu
Dynamic Contrast Off off off off
Black tone: Off darker off
Flesh tone: 0 0 0 0
RGB Only Mode: Off off off
Color space (submenu) Custom Native auto auto
Red: Red 41, Green 2, Blue 2
Green: Red 13, Green 53, Blue 0
Blue: Red 1, Green 2, Blue 50
Yellow: Red 50, Green 50, Blue 0
Cyan: Red 12, Green 56, Blue 52
Magenta: Red 41, Green 5, Blue 48
White Balance (submenu) default
R-Offset: 27 R-Offset: 25
G-Offset: 25 G-Offset: 26
B-Offset: 26 B-Offset: 26
R-Gain: 25 R-Gain: 25
G-Gain: 27 G-Gain: 26
B-Gain: 24 B-Gain: 26
10p White Balance (submenu) on off off on
Interval 1: Red -1, Green -1, Blue -3
Interval 2: Red 0, Green +1, Blue +1
Interval 3: Red +1, Green +2, Blue +2
Interval 4: Red 0, Green 0, Blue +1
Interval 5: Red +2, Green +3, Blue +4
Interval 6: Red +1, Green +1, Blue +4
Interval 7: Red +2, Green +2, Blue +2
Interval 8: Red +1, Green +1, Blue +5
Interval 9: Red 0, Green 0, Blue +5
Interval 10: Red +3, Green 0, Blue +8
Gamma: 0 -1 +1 0 +1? 0 1
Expert Pattern: Off off
xvYCC: Off off off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out] Off [grayed out] off
Picture Options Menu
Color tone: Warm2 warm 1 warm2 warm2 standard warm2
Digital Noise Filter: Off off off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off auto off
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out] (3D - default is too dark, no alternative given) Normal [grayed out] off
Film mode: Cinema Smooth Cinema Smooth

Audio
Optical Out
2.1 DTS
ARC (HDMI 2)
Full DD 5.1

Motion
  • Film Mode: Cinema Smooth is recommended when available, some prefer to turn it off when in 3D. I personally find it much smoother all around.
  • Gaming: Either Turn on Game Mode (Settings>General>Game Mode) - this will set the picture to Standard mode and lose all settings
    or
  • Use HDMI 1 (DVI) and name the input PC (personally preferred to retain picture settings)
  • (estimated) Display lag: 39-56ms (more info: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/)

Break In
Recommended for the first 200 hours, but unanimously determined to be unnecessary (just watch a wide variety of content and calibrate after the panel settles).
Break In Slides: http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm
MTR in Service menu is usage hours

Service Menu (to view Run Time only, use caution)
1. With the TV on, input this key sequence: MUTE, 7, 3, 7, ENTER
2. A menu will be displayed, DO NOT press any buttons or change any values.
3. Your panel's run time (in hours) is the "MRT" value.
4. Press power on the remote, the TV will turn off. The TV is now back to normal and may be turned on again.

Thread Images
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1400627/lightbox/

Stand (for those unhappy with the spider stand)
The D series stand is (unofficially) compatible with pnxxe7000/8000 sets as long as you keep the original bracket that attaches to the back of the TV
(59/60" model) http://www.samsungparts.com/Products/Parts_and_Accessories/PID-BN96-18955B.aspx?model=

Evolution Kit
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450292/official-samsung-smart-tv-evolution-kit-thread

Troubleshooting/Issues
  • Buzzing (ffs, we get it) - Plasmas buzz, however, this set seems to be the loudest to some, non existent to others. I find the buzz to be directly related to situational (not a word, i know) energy usage (louder on bright scenes), and it is absolutely directional (may only ring in one ear, can even be eliminated by re-positioning your setup). That said, I get a buzz about 5% of the time, YMMV.
  • On/Off cycling - some say this is due to the brightness levels being too low (Samsung's default setting is to turn off the display on a pitch black scene), Others have claimed the WiFi dongle is to blame, others have had the power supply or panel replaced. Consensus is blurry at best, but best bet is to up the brightness or have the WiFi dongle replaced/serviced. (Mine is wired, no issues so far)
  • Trouble after FW update - Samsung corporate and even servicemen have an odd stance on this, some claim to not update firmwares unless you are already having issues. I (and the rest of the technological savvy world) do not agree with this. Issues probably have to get serviced. Good luck in this area.
  • Spider cracking panel- scary. hopefully this is just a freak occurrence.
  • SmartHub stuck connecting/apps don't load - Samsung servers have been known to go down a few hours. Waiting a bit or a soft reset seems to clear this up for me.



Let me know if I missed anything, or if you have any questions.
Feel free to link to this for any future questions, I'm sure it'll get lost in a few days.
Edited by dangerFlakes - 4/6/13 at 12:32pm
post #3944 of 4281
Hate much? Good post unfortunately ruined by your terrible attitude.
post #3945 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Hate much? Good post unfortunately ruined by your terrible attitude.
Chill man, I'm mostly joking. Although it was a pain to go through it. I scrolled and skipped dozens of pages due to buzzing conversation.
It took me 2 weeks to figure all that info above out. Excuse the jadedness.
post #3946 of 4281
i have changed my setting

Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 93
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 10
Color: 52,
Tint: G50/R50

Screen adjustment submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit
Position: [no change]

Auto Adjustment submenu: [Grayed out]

3D submenu: N/A

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: off
Black tone: Darker
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Native
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: Off
Gamma: +1
Expert Pattern: Off
xvYCC: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Native

White balance submenu:
R-Offset: 25
G-Offset: 26
B-Offset: 26
R-Gain: 25
G-Gain: 26
B-Gain: 26

10p White Balance off

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm 2
Digital Noise Filter: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: auto
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out]
Film mode: Cinema Smooth

Cinema Smooth only works in 24p
Edited by bargervais - 4/6/13 at 10:34am
post #3947 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerFlakes View Post

Chill man, I'm mostly joking. Although it was a pain to go through it. I scrolled and skipped dozens of pages due to buzzing conversation.
It took me 2 weeks to figure all that info above out. Excuse the jadedness.

Thats the nature of these forums, there will always be more discussion of the problems people are having or not having.....Usuallty there is a seperate thread for settings\calibration which allows things to be seperated out, I couldnt find one for the E series though, only the D series......
post #3948 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Thats the nature of these forums, there will always be more discussion of the problems people are having or not having.....Usuallty there is a seperate thread for settings\calibration which allows things to be seperated out, I couldnt find one for the E series though, only the D series......

I understand I saw that my settings were from a year ago since that time I have tweaked them some but I'm not having any issues with my PN60E8000 the only thing I will do is get the evolution kit because I'm not going to upgrade this year to an F8500
post #3949 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

i have changed my setting

@bargervais I updated your setting in the post. Also, wanted to say thanks, I think your original settings were the best I had tried at the time. Everything was great except blacks were getting crushed in dark scenes a bit, cant wait to try your new settings.


I also updated the post with some Service Menu and Stand info.

I wanted to put a section for the differences between E7000 and 8000, I just need some clarification.
The sets are the same, except that the 8000 has motion/voice/touch (remote) control, and a different kind of glass, is this correct? What is the difference in the glass, for reflection/glare reduction?
Edited by dangerFlakes - 4/6/13 at 12:39pm
post #3950 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerFlakes View Post

@bargervais I updated your setting in the post. Also, wanted to say thanks, I think your original settings were the best I had tried at the time. Everything was great except blacks were getting crushed in dark scenes a bit, cant wait to try your new settings.


I also updated the post with some Service Menu and Stand info.

I wanted to put a section for the differences between E7000 and 8000, I just need some clarification.
The sets are the same, except that the 8000 has motion/voice/touch (remote) control, and a different kind of glass, is this correct? What is the difference in the glass, for reflection/glare reduction?

I'm using dynamic when I watch baseball
Picture Mode Dynamic
Cell Light 13
Contrast 90
Brightness 48
Sharpness 10
Color 52
Tint 50/50
Picture Size Screen Fit
Advanced settings Grayed out
Color Tone standard
Digital Noise Auto
MPEG. Auto

But that's just when I watch sports mostly baseball but that depends on the feed different channels have PQ ISSUES imho
Edited by bargervais - 4/6/13 at 3:20pm
post #3951 of 4281
So anybody here thinking to upgrade to the new F8500?
post #3952 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

So anybody here thinking to upgrade to the new F8500?

I just got my PN60E800 it's just now almost a year old I'll most likely just upgrade with the evolution kit so I can see the different platform for the smart hub I would rather spend $300 instead of three thousand as my PQ IS very good on my E8000. I also have a three year old PN50C7000 I was expecting a big PQ Difference when I got the PN 60E8000 but the difference was not that different so I'm thinking that the difference in PQ between the E and F won't be much. I think it's the smart hub that's Samsung is pushing.
post #3953 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

I just got my PN60E800 it's just now almost a year old I'll most likely just upgrade with the evolution kit so I can see the different platform for the smart hub I would rather spend $300 instead of three thousand as my PQ IS very good on my E8000. I also have a three year old PN50C7000 I was expecting a big PQ Difference when I got the PN 60E8000 but the difference was not that different so I'm thinking that the difference in PQ between the E and F won't be much. I think it's the smart hub that's Samsung is pushing.

Theres a bigger "jump" this year for both Panasonic and Samsung.....But if you are happy with your current Set, stick with it and if you have upgradeitis just get the Evolution Kit wink.gif .........
post #3954 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Theres a bigger "jump" this year for both Panasonic and Samsung.....But if you are happy with your current Set, stick with it and if you have upgradeitis just get the Evolution Kit wink.gif .........
I totally agree but I can't justify spending the money this year because it would be my fourth set just to have the latest. maybe in a year I'll replace my PN50C7000
post #3955 of 4281
Tried bargervais' newer settings, and wow, big difference on my end, great job!

I did have to make 2 changes:
  1. Color Tone: Standard - Warm2 gave everything a greenish/yellow tint, warm1 had less of an issue, but it was still noticeable. Standard looks great to me
  2. Digital Noise: Auto - When set to off, I saw dancing pixels everwhere. Auto is much more muted, without PQ suffering for me.

I am having an issue with dancing pixels though. Even on a black screen or in the black bar space, close up I can see green snow around the edges. I was able to reduce it by turning down contract, but the main picture suffers... Im thinking this is just a limitation to the panel.
post #3956 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerFlakes View Post

Tried bargervais' newer settings, and wow, big difference on my end, great job!

I did have to make 2 changes:
  1. Color Tone: Standard - Warm2 gave everything a greenish/yellow tint, warm1 had less of an issue, but it was still noticeable. Standard looks great to me
  2. Digital Noise: Auto - When set to off, I saw dancing pixels everwhere. Auto is much more muted, without PQ suffering for me.

I am having an issue with dancing pixels though. Even on a black screen or in the black bar space, close up I can see green snow around the edges. I was able to reduce it by turning down contract, but the main picture suffers... Im thinking this is just a limitation to the panel.

when you say dancing pixels not sure what you mean i don't see that at all. i'm wondering if it's some kind of static do you have clean power suppy is you HDMI CABLE running close to the power cord i'm not saying that what it is but i'm just wondering you have start somewhere
Edited by bargervais - 4/6/13 at 10:03pm
post #3957 of 4281
Guys I'm having a heck of a time making a decision between these two top of the line 2012 Sammy TVs and need some help.

The local BB where we are just happens to have BOTH the ES8000 LCD 55 AND E8000 Plasma 60 on OB discount tucked in the back corner of the store. Now I should note that under normal conditions I would never purchase an OB plasma display as they are frequently store demos with thousands of hours which doesn't affect LED backlit LCDs much but can really dim the plasmas in my experience, not to mention potential IR issues.

In any case, I prefer plasma tech for PQ. This particular PN60 was a customer return, is still in the box and still retains the plastic adhesive film all around the outside of the panel. It's missing the power cable so I didn't get to turn it on, but it appears to legitimately be a return and not a display. This one was, in fact, just put out today (Apr. 6) and amusingly had two stickers for the price. One sticker said 1581.99 which would just be the normal 10 percent off the now regular price of 1799, and the second sticker said 1079 so that's the price I paid (yes, I technically bought this one but haven't picked it up from the store yet).

The 55ES8000 on the other hand is a store display but other than some adhesive residue from stickers having been placed on the LCD (i was able to rub it off with my fingers) I didn't see any damage or anything on it. It was dusty from having been on display, and includes nothing with it. No remotes, glasses (don't care about 3D), or anything else. This one is priced at 1319.99.

I spent literally an hour and a half deciding based on various different factors while I was at the store. One sillier factor I do like about the LCD, is that MAN is that thing light. I move fairly frequently and I was able to carefully pick up and move that tv entirely on my own. An astonishing feature of such a large screened TV!

That aside, I came home and discovered some alarming things about the PN60E8000. Among them is this issue of spider cracking due to heat that I read reviews about on Amazon. How common is this problem?

Ultimately, I'm just wondering which TV you would choose in this scenario. Should I just stick with the E8000 I paid for already, or swap to the ES? It's really scary to think that the glass could crack and then Samsung won't warranty as they'll assume it's physical damage as the users mentioned on Amazon. Don't let size sway your opinion TOO much, I'm ok with 55 or 60 inches. The ES is 240.00 more, however. Wish they had a VT50 at this kind of open box discount, but it probably would be a store demo anyway. Thanks for the help.
post #3958 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

Guys I'm having a heck of a time making a decision between these two top of the line 2012 Sammy TVs and need some help.

The local BB where we are just happens to have BOTH the ES8000 LCD 55 AND E8000 Plasma 60 on OB discount tucked in the back corner of the store. Now I should note that under normal conditions I would never purchase an OB plasma display as they are frequently store demos with thousands of hours which doesn't affect LED backlit LCDs much but can really dim the plasmas in my experience, not to mention potential IR issues.

In any case, I prefer plasma tech for PQ. This particular PN60 was a customer return, is still in the box and still retains the plastic adhesive film all around the outside of the panel. It's missing the power cable so I didn't get to turn it on, but it appears to legitimately be a return and not a display. This one was, in fact, just put out today (Apr. 6) and amusingly had two stickers for the price. One sticker said 1581.99 which would just be the normal 10 percent off the now regular price of 1799, and the second sticker said 1079 so that's the price I paid (yes, I technically bought this one but haven't picked it up from the store yet).

The 55ES8000 on the other hand is a store display but other than some adhesive residue from stickers having been placed on the LCD (i was able to rub it off with my fingers) I didn't see any damage or anything on it. It was dusty from having been on display, and includes nothing with it. No remotes, glasses (don't care about 3D), or anything else. This one is priced at 1319.99.

I spent literally an hour and a half deciding based on various different factors while I was at the store. One sillier factor I do like about the LCD, is that MAN is that thing light. I move fairly frequently and I was able to carefully pick up and move that tv entirely on my own. An astonishing feature of such a large screened TV!

That aside, I came home and discovered some alarming things about the PN60E8000. Among them is this issue of spider cracking due to heat that I read reviews about on Amazon. How common is this problem?

Ultimately, I'm just wondering which TV you would choose in this scenario. Should I just stick with the E8000 I paid for already, or swap to the ES? It's really scary to think that the glass could crack and then Samsung won't warranty as they'll assume it's physical damage as the users mentioned on Amazon. Don't let size sway your opinion TOO much, I'm ok with 55 or 60 inches. The ES is 240.00 more, however. Wish they had a VT50 at this kind of open box discount, but it probably would be a store demo anyway. Thanks for the help.

I have a PN60E8000 and I'm very pleased with it can't speak about the spider cracking because mine is fine if it caused by heat I'm not sure about that because mine doesn't seem to get that hot. Now my PN50C7000 that thing gets warmer and I didn't get any cracking. As far as an open box if the panel has no signs of burn in you should be fine. Amazon has the E8000 for a new one under 1900
post #3959 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

I have a PN60E8000 and I'm very pleased with it can't speak about the spider cracking because mine is fine if it caused by heat I'm not sure about that because mine doesn't seem to get that hot. Now my PN50C7000 that thing gets warmer and I didn't get any cracking. As far as an open box if the panel has no signs of burn in you should be fine. Amazon has the E8000 for a new one under 1900

I think I may stick with the plasma (if the LCD is even there anymore, haven't stopped by yet). One thing I've noticed from reading these threads is that the 2012 updates for all of these models, including the Panasonics just weren't all that thorough. And if the voice and gesture control features are the main separators of the 8k and lower models, well then I'm really just looking at the PNE as more of a nice deal for a 60 inch plasma TV with very very good PQ, rather than a top of the line type model. I remember when I had the 46C9000 (still in my signature I think) and played with that gimmicky LCD remote control of all about six times then it got thrown in a box forever.
post #3960 of 4281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

I think I may stick with the plasma (if the LCD is even there anymore, haven't stopped by yet). One thing I've noticed from reading these threads is that the 2012 updates for all of these models, including the Panasonics just weren't all that thorough. And if the voice and gesture control features are the main separators of the 8k and lower models, well then I'm really just looking at the PNE as more of a nice deal for a 60 inch plasma TV with very very good PQ, rather than a top of the line type model. I remember when I had the 46C9000 (still in my signature I think) and played with that gimmicky LCD remote control of all about six times then it got thrown in a box forever.

I have the PN60E8000 and I do not use the gesture and voice recognition stuff. When I first got it I had the voice recognition on but I have directv going into my av receiver but the problem was sometimes because using external speaker's I had a few times when it shut off my TV I guess the TV thought I said something then it shut the tv off. I tried using the gesture stuff but my room is too dark.
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