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4 LMS 5400s in my enclosures. Doable?

post #1 of 79
Thread Starter 
I started a new thread because this changes things a bit. I'm now $1700 over budget, but these things you understand.

I have a few concerns about the LMS.

Can they be mounted vertically as in my current enclosures? I've heard some drivers are not meant to be mounted vertically.

Would you guys order from Parts Express?

In the event that something goes awry with one of the drivers, does LMS handle any repair needs?

There's a 10Hz HPF filter on the input stage of my Crown Marco 5000; does anyone know how to defeat it? If not this is a real limitation to the HT aspect.

Do you think the Crown/2 LMS/14cu ft/ dual opposed/sealed, is a decent marriage?

Lastly (for now I'm sure), do you think that a 3/4" thick Baltic adapter plate will be rigid enough, or should more material be used?





post #2 of 79
LMS-U are only available from PE. PE is great to deal with.

To avoid sag over time, it would be nice for the drivers to be mounted vertically. Any way to turn the cabinets?

I would double .75" BB for your adapter plate.
post #3 of 79
Thread Starter 
Just hung up the phone with Crown, GREAT company BTW. Have never had an issue getting a hold of tech support. Kevin is the man.

There's no HPF in the Macro Tech, but it does roll off at 6db per octave below 20hz and it will detect such inputs a DC resulting in its indicators flashing. That explains some things I've seen during "The Dark Knight" and "The Matrix: Reloaded".

Kevin said the Crown will pass the audio and the response can be EQd "if I have an EQ that will do it"

Could anyone model 2 LMS in 14cu feet sealed? I wonder how much boost they will need below 20hz before the amplifier is considered.
post #4 of 79
Thread Starter 
Hey Wi, I've laid the boxes on their sides and it sounds like dirt. Output goes down, response gets hilly, and the mechanical noise from the house is noticeably greater.
post #5 of 79
Attachment 240942

4 LMS-U at 5kw in 14 cubes, vs. 4 Zv3 18s at the same power and volume.
LL
post #6 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

Attachment 240942

4 LMS-U at 5kw in 14 cubes, vs. 4 Zv3 18s at the same power and volume.

That's a sexy graph for both drivers. Thank you for running that. It will be interesting to see what Ricci has to say about your Zv3.
post #7 of 79
This didn't take long.

You should rather enjoy the LMS's and they will most certainly not give up on the deep stuff.
post #8 of 79
Thread Starter 
I've got my finger on the order button. $3700!

Just a comment about sensitivity.

My Misco's sensitivity is 95dB SPL with 2.83 V input measured at 1 M.

The TC Sound's sensitivity is 89.7dB of SPL. I'm guessing that's 1 W at 1 M.

So my Miscos are more sensitive, especially above 30 or 40 Hz, but I have to think that the LMS's motor, xmax, and overall quality will produce better sound, better output, and better response at all frequencies after EQing. Is that a fair assessment?
post #9 of 79
Just make sure that you mark them as a 'gift' and I'll PM you my address.

Pay no attention to the listed sensitivity. The Misco's are simply bass drivers that are designed to play loud in the higher bass frequencies. The LMS-U will be WAY more sensitive down low where you want more bass anyway.
post #10 of 79
Thread Starter 
Hahaha, right? I'm still waiting for a few "gifts" myself.

So, laminated .75" BB to 1.5". I really don't want to make these enclosures any bulkier, but I don't really have a choice, unless of course I lop off the current baffles and fabricate new ones...

I'd be grateful for any suggestions
post #11 of 79
Thread Starter 
They are on their way

They should be here Thursday.

Now to modify

Is anyone concerned that my adapter plates will leave only 6.5" between the down firing drivers and the floor?
post #12 of 79
Nope.

Have fun!
post #13 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

Attachment 240942

4 LMS-U at 5kw in 14 cubes, vs. 4 Zv3 18s at the same power and volume.

Dont the LMS-U have way more excursion? How can it only be a 2db difference at 10hz?

Do the LMS-U have a lot more power handling capabilities for a low shelf filter?
post #14 of 79
LMS-U is rated at 38.1mm Xmax. Zv318 at 70% Bl is rated 25mm, but the suspension can handle a bit over 40, and hard bottom for both drivers is around 47mm.

LMS-U is rated at 2kw RMS, Zv3 is conservatively rated 1.5kw.
post #15 of 79
Thread Starter 
They're here! I've assembled and tested two drivers in free air. The spiders are making a lot of mechanical nosie. All I have is music audio, but the fantasy adventure album with the infrasonic t Rex effects is moving the cones and I hear much less noise during that. :/ I'm going to finish assembling them and if they all behave the same I'll chalk it up to a free air anomaly.

Warranty states clearly that spider sag due to up down mounting is not covered, but Thilo wrote me that he is not concerned with my arrangement causing sag. Has anyone ever mounted the down up outside a car? What do you guys think about sag with these drivers?
post #16 of 79
hard bottom for lms-u is 42mm. The cone hits the spider support.
post #17 of 79
Thread Starter 
No where near that kind of excursion. Just sounds buzzy and fuzzy from around 60 and up. I wouldn't think there would be audible mechanical noise from any part of the driver within its operational limits.
post #18 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

hard bottom for lms-u is 42mm. The cone hits the spider support.

Hey is that what you measured? I never did.
post #19 of 79
Awesome they came!
post #20 of 79
Thread Starter 
Yep, they came I am surprised at the mechanical noise but they all do it, and with my head in the cone they are uber smooth.

Any opinions on driver sag would be greatly appreciated!
post #21 of 79
None of my LMS 5400's have mechanical noise free air, are you sure it's not sound created by the pole vent being blocked, as the woofer sitting on a bench or a table?
post #22 of 79
Thread Starter 
Ahhh, I bet you're right. I'll check when I get home.
post #23 of 79
Thread Starter 
That was it.
post #24 of 79
Thread Starter 
Could that have damaged them?
post #25 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwz414 View Post

That was it.

Whew! Was worried for a sec...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwz414 View Post

Could that have damaged them?

Nah.
post #26 of 79
Only danger would be overheating over an extended period of high voltage operation.
post #27 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Hey is that what you measured? I never did.

yep. Their specs are right on. 38mm xmax, 42mm xmech. very close.
post #28 of 79
4mm doesn't leave much room for error.
post #29 of 79
Yeah, really.

I like the ratio more on my RLp18's. 27.4mm xmax 41mm xmech.
post #30 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

4mm doesn't leave much room for error.

It doesn't, but unless you bottom them out REALLY hard, you'll just be hitting the cone on the spider support. Not the best thing, but not the worst either. I reckon it would take a LOT of power to inflict actual damage on one of these in a sealed enclosure of reasonable size. I think the images of the damaged one from this method that have been floating around, were of a sub that was being run in a ported enclosure, which certainly makes it much easier to do this.
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