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UXL-18 (Pi-18) - The Magical Mystery build

post #1 of 65
3/19/12 at 2:23pm
Thread Starter 
I'd been waiting for these "Pi-18" woofers to be available since last year. I was very busy over the winter with work and sort of stopped following the forum so much except for the original thread. Well last week I emailed Mark and basically begged him to sell me a UXL-18 because I'm tired of waiting. Apparently he scrounged around the shop, looking under tables and in the couch cushions and I guess he found enough spare parts to build me one! So after emailing back and forth over the weekend and sending him a paypal payment I have now officially entered the realm of the UXL-owners...err..waiters?

Anyway, he said it will ship out in about a week. I figured I'd better get a build thread started and beg for help because 1) this is my first DIY build and 2) I seem to change my mind about how I want to do it about every 5 minutes.

Here is where I'm at currently. I basically have 2 types of builds in mind and I can't decide which to do. Both would be sealed builds of around 3-3.5 cubes based on recommendations in the other thread. This sub will be going in my family room setup, so no dedicated theater or hidden option. The sub will be out in the open so it can't be (too) gigantic. (Side note: I've already purchased an EP4000 as I got a great deal on it a few months back so I just grabbed it).

Basically here are the 2 rough build ideas, one cheap(er), one not so much:

Build idea #1: Have a simple black cab built by eD, power it with the EP4000, and pick up a DSP1124P for EQ.

Build idea #2: Have Nathan at Funky Waves build me basically an 18.0 box with his built-in DSP amp and drop in the UXL-18. I already did a lot of back and forth with Nathan a few months ago and I absolutely love the look of the 18.0 and the craftsmanship is top-notch. I also really like the idea of being able to EQ the sub on my PC via the built-in DSP amp.

Obviously the pros of option 1 are mainly the cost and probably speed as I expect I could get an eD cab faster than a custom built one from Canada. But damn if I can't stop thinking about the sexiness of that FW 18.0 cab and just the elegance/simplicity of a single box solution vs a 3 box mess. Also, new information has come to light, courtesy of HuskerOmaha's thread and the measurements therein, which I was not even aware of until after I had placed the order with Mark. I don't think it really changes anything, but then again that's why I'm a DIY n00b and am asking for help.

God that's long and rambling. Sorry. Does anyone see any major flaws with either plan? Which would you choose?
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post #2 of 65
3/19/12 at 3:22pm
I thought about doing this exact build but using the LMS driver instead. Though my plans called for 4 subs, so the FW cabs pushed the budget a bit too far out of reach.

However if i was looking to build only 1 sub, i'd go the sexy Funky Waves route.
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post #3 of 65
3/19/12 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo0 View Post

I'd been waiting for these "Pi-18" woofers to be available since last year. I was very busy over the winter with work and sort of stopped following the forum so much except for the original thread. Well last week I emailed Mark and basically begged him to sell me a UXL-18 because I'm tired of waiting. Apparently he scrounged around the shop, looking under tables and in the couch cushions and I guess he found enough spare parts to build me one! So after emailing back and forth over the weekend and sending him a paypal payment I have now officially entered the realm of the UXL-owners...err..waiters?

Anyway, he said it will ship out in about a week. I figured I'd better get a build thread started and beg for help because 1) this is my first DIY build and 2) I seem to change my mind about how I want to do it about every 5 minutes.

Here is where I'm at currently. I basically have 2 types of builds in mind and I can't decide which to do. Both would be sealed builds of around 3-3.5 cubes based on recommendations in the other thread. This sub will be going in my family room setup, so no dedicated theater or hidden option. The sub will be out in the open so it can't be (too) gigantic. (Side note: I've already purchased an EP4000 as I got a great deal on it a few months back so I just grabbed it).

Basically here are the 2 rough build ideas, one cheap(er), one not so much:

Build idea #1: Have a simple black cab built by eD, power it with the EP4000, and pick up a DSP1124P for EQ.

Build idea #2: Have Nathan at Funky Waves build me basically an 18.0 box with his built-in DSP amp and drop in the UXL-18. I already did a lot of back and forth with Nathan a few months ago and I absolutely love the look of the 18.0 and the craftsmanship is top-notch. I also really like the idea of being able to EQ the sub on my PC via the built-in DSP amp.

Obviously the pros of option 1 are mainly the cost and probably speed as I expect I could get an eD cab faster than a custom built one from Canada. But damn if I can't stop thinking about the sexiness of that FW 18.0 cab and just the elegance/simplicity of a single box solution vs a 3 box mess. Also, new information has come to light, courtesy of HuskerOmaha's thread and the measurements therein, which I was not even aware of until after I had placed the order with Mark. I don't think it really changes anything, but then again that's why I'm a DIY n00b and am asking for help.

God that's long and rambling. Sorry. Does anyone see any major flaws with either plan? Which would you choose?

Number 2 makes no sense. Just buy the 18.0 and be done. His drivers are quite good from what I've seen and you probably won't get a noticeable difference going with the uxl 18.
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post #4 of 65
3/19/12 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
Well it makes sense in that I've already purchased the UXL. It would end up being a few hundred dollars less than an 18.0 as well.
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post #5 of 65
3/19/12 at 8:34pm
The UXL doesn't model that great in that size of box, thats my point, you are going to need around 5-7CF without driver or braces. Are those boxes not 3 CF? if so, get him to make one that is 5.5 cf. The driver models much better in that.
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post #6 of 65
3/20/12 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The UXL doesn't model that great in that size of box, thats my point, you are going to need around 5-7CF without driver or braces. Are those boxes not 3 CF? if so, get him to make one that is 5.5 cf. The driver models much better in that.

Well that was the size that I originally was thinking. However, it was then suggested (more than once)that 3-3.5 was the best bang for the buck. I didn't see anyone dispute that afterwards...

I'm not going to cry over losing a tiny bit of output to have a box that is both more pleasant to look at and easier to move around.
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post #7 of 65
3/20/12 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo0 View Post

Well that was the size that I originally was thinking. However, it was then suggested (more than once)that 3-3.5 was the best bang for the buck. I didn't see anyone dispute that afterwards...

I'm not going to cry over losing a tiny bit of output to have a box that is both more pleasant to look at and easier to move around.

Not sure why you made the thread asking advise if you've already made up your mind and bought the driver. If you modeled the driver, you'd see the difference it makes in a small 3 cf box. By all means, build whatever you want to.
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post #8 of 65
3/20/12 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
Well I asked for advice on enclosure size months ago and based on that, I believed that a 3-3.5cu box was appropriate. That is why I ordered the driver. I didn't know I wasn't allowed to ask questions if one of them wasn't about the size of the enclosure. BTW, dimensions aren't set in stone either. I just don't want something so huge that if I decide to upgrade I'll have to discard it and start over. I do have limited space.

As I said, this is my first build, so I'm OK with it not being perfect right off the bat. If it turns out that I'm not satisfied then other options such as increasing power or adding additional subs won't be out of the question.

I didn't mean to come off like I was ignoring what you had to say. If I did I apologize.
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post #9 of 65
3/20/12 at 5:02pm
It would be different if you were building the box yourself. It would only mean $100 worth of material to scrap if you didn't like the design. Funk audio will be around $400-$500 i would imagine (I had asked him to build 2 x 6 CF boxes like the 18.0 and he wanted $700 per box not including amp) it stands to reason you should be modeling this sub and making 100% you can live with the compromises you choose.
You shouldn't just hope for "good enough" when you have the time and info to make the decision based on all the info you have.

I don't really care if you don't listen to me but from building over 20 subs, the "good enough" reasoning will come back to bite you in the ass lol. It's did it to me and I'm sure it's done it to all the guys who build subs.

all in all, if moneys not a problem, I'd go the funk audio route.
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post #10 of 65
3/21/12 at 12:20pm
Thread Starter 
That's odd. Nathan quoted me $980 delivered for just an 18.0 box, no amp. $2030 with the amp.

I'm really leaning towards going with eD for the box and just using the ep4000 I have. Knowing me I will want to change something and having that much money in a box just seems dumb.

I'm going to fire up winISD tonight
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post #11 of 65
3/21/12 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo0 View Post

That's odd. Nathan quoted me $980 delivered for just an 18.0 box, no amp. $2030 with the amp.

I'm really leaning towards going with eD for the box and just using the ep4000 I have. Knowing me I will want to change something and having that much money in a box just seems dumb.

I'm going to fire up winISD tonight

holy crap!!!!! In that case, scratch what I said about Funk audio. Thats pretty expensive. Do you have any cabinet makers around you? They could do the same thing for probably quite a bit cheaper. It may not be up to Funk audios's quality but I'm sure they would still make a hellva nice box.

I think I'd also go with eD and use your ep4000. It will match up great with the UXL.
I was thinking around $1400 with amp from Nathan. My quote was from about 8 months ago but maybe it was because I was going to buy 2 boxes.
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post #12 of 65
3/21/12 at 5:28pm
Thread Starter 
Re: WinISD. Is there somewhere I can download the driver profile for the UXL? Trying to copy the params from the website and there are some missing and/or named differently. :|
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post #13 of 65
3/21/12 at 5:39pm
They are all on the site. the Le will be 5, that one is not on the site.
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post #14 of 65
3/21/12 at 5:46pm
Thread Starter 
I don't see
Z
SPL (why would it want SPL?)
Pe
dia (diameter? of what?)
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post #15 of 65
3/21/12 at 6:03pm
spl is 92.9
pe - 1000
Z - 4 ohms
dia - leave blank

Some have different names and the others are on the specs list.
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post #16 of 65
3/21/12 at 6:22pm
Thread Starter 
yeah I found a file on HTS.

So Pe is the power handling? Shouldn't that be set based on the amp you are using? why when I do a project and change the "system input power" does nothing change with the graph?
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post #17 of 65
3/21/12 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo0 View Post

yeah I found a file on HTS.

So Pe is the power handling? Shouldn't that be set based on the amp you are using? why when I do a project and change the "system input power" does nothing change with the graph?

no it's the power handling of the driver. You input how much power you are going to run in Winisd.
Are you using the beta or pro?
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post #18 of 65
3/21/12 at 6:39pm
Thread Starter 
Pro.

ok here are 2 enclosures modeled, all details are the same except the displacement. The yellow is a 3.5 cu ft box, orange is 6 cu ft. Is this what you mean when you say it doesn't model well in a smaller box? This looks like a pretty tiny difference to me, especially considering it neglects room gain. Or is there something I'm missing?

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post #19 of 65
3/21/12 at 6:43pm
Thread Starter 
also in the 6 cu ft box with a 2000W input the cone reaches xmax at only 15 Hz. With the smaller box it is safe down to 5 Hz.

With the box size I am considering (110-115 liters), the output is down only 1.5 dB at 10 Hz compared to the large 6 cu ft box.
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post #20 of 65
3/21/12 at 7:14pm
"why when I do a project and change the "system input power" does nothing change with the graph?"

the transfer function is just the shape and that will not change. go to the SPL tab to see the effect of changing power.
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post #21 of 65
3/21/12 at 7:19pm
Thread Starter 
max SPL also does not change with a change in input power...
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post #22 of 65
3/21/12 at 7:27pm
Thread Starter 
2 drivers modeled, same sealed enclosure size, all the same parameters except input power. 1W vs 2000W. I made the yellow line wider so it could be seen under the orange line.

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post #23 of 65
3/21/12 at 7:37pm
Thread Starter 
Anyone?? I must be doing something wrong but I don't know what.
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post #24 of 65
3/21/12 at 7:45pm
b/c its max spl .... use just regular old spl
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post #25 of 65
3/21/12 at 7:48pm
Thread Starter 
oops, didn't see that one. where's the embarrassed emoticon?
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post #26 of 65
3/21/12 at 7:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

The UXL doesn't model that great in that size of box, thats my point, you are going to need around 5-7CF without driver or braces. Are those boxes not 3 CF? if so, get him to make one that is 5.5 cf. The driver models much better in that.

Could you clarify what exactly you mean by this? I must be interpreting what I'm seeing incorrectly, or I have something set up wrong because I still don't see it after trying both boxes in winISD.
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post #27 of 65
3/21/12 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo0 View Post

Could you clarify what exactly you mean by this? I must be interpreting what I'm seeing incorrectly, or I have something set up wrong because I still don't see it after trying both boxes in winISD.

@ 10hz your 3db louder in 6cf vs 3.5cf
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post #28 of 65
3/21/12 at 10:08pm
Thread Starter 
It's about 2.4 dB @ 10Hz and is this not a problem?

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post #29 of 65
3/22/12 at 6:22pm
Thread Starter 
I think I'm going to order the box tomorrow. I was quoted a wait time of 4 weeks by Alex.
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post #30 of 65
3/22/12 at 9:41pm
the uxl 18 seems to do best in about a 3.5cuft sealed box. bigger than that and excursion goes nuts.
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