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"Arrow" on The CW HD - Page 17

post #481 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn 
By comparison SHIELD seems extra flat and visually bland and lacking in even a tiny bit of coolness that Arrow has.

I think it just goes to show that a big budget TV show isn't a guarantee of success. Not sure what is wrong with that show, but it just seems "off". It seems to be on par... with a show like Human Target, but I actually enjoyed HT a lot more than Shield, that's for sure.
post #482 of 885
Arrow is about a character, his personal journey as he tries to find justice, and the friends who help him along the way. It's the characters who make Arrow work well, even if some of them are CW stereotypes.

SHIELD is about a mission and the strange gadgets required and encountered during its execution, which is why it's populated with forgettable stock characters. SHIELD focuses on the wrong thing, and as a result it's still less enjoyable to watch than Arrow, despite having a bigger visual effects budget.
post #483 of 885
Also, 'Arrow' has a very interesting visual style, that stays true from episode to episode. Shield doesn't. It looks very generic.
post #484 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Arrow is about a character, his personal journey as he tries to find justice, and the friends who help him along the way. It's the characters who make Arrow work well, even if some of them are CW stereotypes.

SHIELD is about a mission and the strange gadgets required and encountered during its execution, which is why it's populated with forgettable stock characters. SHIELD focuses on the wrong thing, and as a result it's still less enjoyable to watch than Arrow, despite having a bigger visual effects budget.

This is a great observation that I hope you bring to the SHIELD thread...

People like James Bond, and sometimes he interacts with other agents... but a movie where James Bond was just "one of the guys" and one of six or more other equal-partner agents... that might not have spawned such a long history and following.

SHIELD is rowing the tough row... trying to jump in with a whole team of people and build backstory and front-story at the same time.

Arrow really is about 90% about Ollie and 10% everything else... so we get strong Ollie, and everybody else comes along slowly until we like them and know enough about them to give them the forefront in an episode now and then.
post #485 of 885
I've never much cared for shows with ensemble casts, and the difference between Arrow and SHIELD demonstrates how the structure of a cast can influence a show's narrative structure. Arrow is about Oliver, but SHIELD isn't about anyone, and that's one of its many problems. A show ostensibly about superheroes doesn't necessarily need a titular character (e.g. NBC's Heroes), but it does need a cast comprised of more than typical character archetypes from the action and science fiction genres.
post #486 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I've never much cared for shows with ensemble casts, and the difference between Arrow and SHIELD demonstrates how the structure of a cast can influence a show's narrative structure. Arrow is about Oliver, but SHIELD isn't about anyone, and that's one of its many problems. A show ostensibly about superheroes doesn't necessarily need a titular character (e.g. NBC's Heroes), but it does need a cast comprised of more than typical character archetypes from the action and science fiction genres.

Not to go way off the topic of Arrow... but probably the biggest problem SHIELD has to overcome... they are doing it without Nick Fury... because they have Samuel L Jackson in the role, and he isn't likely to do a regular TV series right now... and they don't want to confuse their movie audience by casting a different Nick Fury... and so what could be the singular draw for the show, they kind of have to write around not having in the show.

Smallville made a show work without Superman... but they had Clark Kent... and the powers... so they really were just doing without the costume. Arrow worked last season without him being called "Green Arrow" because Oliver was there and doing the stuff that he should have been doing. SHIELD is missing a key component of what SHIELD is known for, and that's hard to work around.
post #487 of 885
Hahahahaaaaa! Hilarious! "It could be worse. My secret identity is a black driver." Best line of the show to date.
post #488 of 885
I generally enjoy this show but had some difficulties with this episode. First, the good: another ridiculously difficult workout scene! Reverse hand, waist-high push ups from high parallel bars! Ah, I remember when I could do those. tongue.gif

Now the bad: Would FEMA really have kept sending out supply trucks at night, unescorted? One would think that after the first hijacking, with the drivers murdered, that an entire National Guard battalion would have been assigned escort duty from there on out. And they built up the two villains to be so superbad - the "Wolverine" ripoff dude could even bat Ollie's arrows out of the air - but they went down so easily at the end. Chumps. And Felicity doth protest too much. How difficult is it to put a freakin' coffeemaker in Ollie's expansive office? There's room. No Moria. And no Walter - what's the point of bringing him back if he's not going to help Ollie run the company? At least Diggle got to mix it up with the baddies and I also loved his "black driver" line.

Is Katie Cassidy still playing Laurel? There's something....different....about her this season, both in appearance and voice. Almost like they replaced her with a nearly identical looking actress, but not quite as skilled as Cassidy. I checked IMDB but they still have only one Laurel listed. Maybe.....she's a clone! eek.gif
post #489 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Now the bad: Would FEMA really have kept sending out supply trucks at night, unescorted? One would think that after the first hijacking, with the drivers murdered, that an entire National Guard battalion would have been assigned escort duty from there on out. And they built up the two villains to be so superbad - the "Wolverine" ripoff dude could even bat Ollie's arrows out of the air - but they went down so easily at the end. Chumps. And Felicity doth protest too much. How difficult is it to put a freakin' coffeemaker in Ollie's expansive office? There's room. No Moria. And no Walter - what's the point of bringing him back if he's not going to help Ollie run the company? At least Diggle got to mix it up with the baddies and I also loved his "black driver" line.

The woman was the head of the Triad group in the first season so her buildup happened a while back and this was basically tying up her plot thread. I enjoyed seeing MJW again and he hasn't changed since Spawn, but he ultimately became victim of the Threat of the Week plotting. Kind of par for the course with shows like this however I appreciate the fact that the show seems to be making a concerted effort to move into more serialized territory. The FEMA plot seemed like just an excuse to put some pieces in place for the long game.

I thought all the secret identity banter was funny. The coffee back and forth and Diggle's comment made me laugh and the trio are building up a nice chemistry now. Helped by the fact that they all have their strengths and Ollie is still fallible despite his hero position. Walter doesn't run Queen industries, he's the head of a banking corporation in the city and just an investor; so while he is still in the show I expect he will only be required when Moira is featured that week.

Overall I thought this was a solid episode. Not as much cool heroic posturing as last week but it moved things along and felt more adult and serious than last season. The island sequences seem less interesting now but something might happen. The stylistic choice they had last season of giving everything a cool filter to make it stand out as a flashback is missing this time around and it makes those scenes look less moody and dramatic.

What I did really enjoy was the unexpected cliffhanger. I can't remember the last time a show ended on a genuine mid-scene cliffhanger that wasn't a two-part special.

Quote:
Is Katie Cassidy still playing Laurel? There's something....different....about her this season, both in appearance and voice. Almost like they replaced her with a nearly identical looking actress, but not quite as skilled as Cassidy. I checked IMDB but they still have only one Laurel listed. Maybe.....she's a clone! eek.gif

Holy crap! I thought it was just me. In the first episode she looked far too glamorous but seeing her closeups this week made me think she has had some kind of surgery on her face. Something about her looks off. Her chin maybe?
post #490 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post


Holy crap! I thought it was just me. In the first episode she looked far too glamorous but seeing her closeups this week made me think she has had some kind of surgery on her face. Something about her looks off. Her chin maybe?

No, it's more than that. I think she's a different actress. Can't find anything about them recasting that role out in the internets, though.
post #491 of 885
Another one liner gem from Diggle: He was fighting with a bad guy and said "we have enough problems with health care without you". Haha. Good episode.
post #492 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

No, it's more than that. I think she's a different actress. Can't find anything about them recasting that role out in the internets, though.

It's the same actress. And you are not the only one to have noticed the change. Lots of chatter on the interwebs about her different look. General theory seems to be a combination of weight loss (making the overall face slimmer) combined with botox that changed some features a bit. Plus, they DID change her makeup style, and as a photographer, I can tell you that a change in makeup can make someone look very, very different.
post #493 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1812 View Post

It's the same actress. And you are not the only one to have noticed the change. Lots of chatter on the interwebs about her different look. General theory seems to be a combination of weight loss (making the overall face slimmer) combined with botox that changed some features a bit. Plus, they DID change her makeup style, and as a photographer, I can tell you that a change in makeup can make someone look very, very different.

Well, she doesn't look like she lost any weight - her build seems about the same (essentially perfect). And there would certainly have been no need for someone that young and gorgeous (she's 26) to have botoxed anything - that doesn't make any sense. It's not just make-up; in close-ups she looks like a different person, although from 10 feet back she looks kinda' the same. Even her voice sounds a little different.

There's something fishy going on in the Starling City DA's office, I'm telling you. The Vigilante aka The Hood aka Arrow needs to investigate this! Someone has kidnapped his former girlfriend and replaced her with a double! All I can say is I'm glad Tommy's not alive to see this dastardly plot unfold. He'd be even more heartbroken than when he thought Ollie had betrayed him.

BTW, Katie is the daughter of former teen hearthrob David Cassidy. cool.gif
Edited by archiguy - 10/17/13 at 4:16pm
post #494 of 885
Quote:
Is Katie Cassidy still playing Laurel? There's something....different....about her this season, both in appearance and voice. Almost like they replaced her with a nearly identical looking actress, but not quite as skilled as Cassidy. I checked IMDB but they still have only one Laurel listed. Maybe.....she's a clone!
Quote:
Holy crap! I thought it was just me. In the first episode she looked far too glamorous but seeing her closeups this week made me think she has had some kind of surgery on her face. Something about her looks off. Her chin maybe?

It's the same actress, but I totally agree, she looks subtly different--and it's not an improvement. frown.gif
post #495 of 885
While it seems a bit odd, I actually enjoyed this episode much more than the season premiere. My only complaint was that the benefit dinner was too predictable. The moment he made the deal to throw one it was obvious that he would get called away on vigilante duty and give the new antagonist a chance to scorn him. You'd think Oliver would be wise enough by now not to commit to public apperances when he's working on a case, because he never gets to make his appointments. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

And they built up the two villains to be so superbad - the "Wolverine" ripoff dude could even bat Ollie's arrows out of the air - but they went down so easily at the end. Chumps.

It looked to me like Oliver was getting attacked by a Jax/Baraka hybrid. Is this the DC universe or Mortal Kombat? biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

And no Walter - what's the point of bringing him back if he's not going to help Ollie run the company?

I thought his role in the premiere was a guest role. It seems to me like he's been written out of this season: he just provided the money for Oliver to avoid the corporate takeover. I'm guessing Laurel's father has been largely written out as well, since he got demoted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The island sequences seem less interesting now but something might happen.

The thing that bothers me about the island sequences this season is that Oliver now has a love interest. It's not very suspensful, because Oliver got rescued from the island alone, meaning either the other two people died along the way or somehow escaped without him or got captured, and since we already know how the island plot will conclude, there isn't much tension there anymore. Oliver probably wouldn't be pining away after Laurel if his island girlfriend was still alive, but I hope I'm wrong and the flashbacks don't end up being so predictable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

What I did really enjoy was the unexpected cliffhanger.

I enjoyed that as well. Laurel may have a chip on her shoulder this season, but at least she's wiser.
post #496 of 885
I have a feeling the cliff-hanger at the end of the ep will be resolved quickly.
post #497 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

I have a feeling the cliff-hanger at the end of the ep will be resolved quickly.

Well, he's inside so he can't fire a self-winding rope arrow up to the rooftop and zip outta' there. And there are an awful lot of red laser-sight dots on him so he probably can't fight his way through them and jump out the window. So, figure he's going to have to be rescued by a diversion created by his posse or another attack by an evildoer going after Laurel that distracts all the cops, thereby allowing him to slip away. After he saves her life again, of course. The word "ingrate" comes to mind.

Pretty foresighted of faux-Laurel (that's what I'm calling her, dadgumit) to have that SWAT team stationed all over her office on the off chance that the Vigilante might show back up unannounced, after she dissed him so bad the last time he showed up unannounced. Were they going to follow her back to her apartment? You think the Starling City taxpayers are picking up all their overtime?

Ollie, dude, you're too predictable! That ain't no way for a superhero to act.
post #498 of 885
The only thing I don't like about Laurel is that we've basically traded Tommy for her. It's the same plot device, someone hating the superhero but liking the secret identity. I was frustrated by their encounter, feeling like Ollie should have just said he got there too late, he tried to save Tommy, or SOMETHING but stand there in silence just so they could drag out this plotline.
post #499 of 885
I dismissed this show last season because, seriously guy with arrows fighting guys with guns in modern times? However, after watching the last the last two episodes, I think it's the best show on TV these days. I love it. Don't care for the flashback though.
post #500 of 885
Glad you've come around. smile.gif

And in defense of arrows vs. guns.... Ollie does get shot (and slashed) a lot. I began to take notice of that in this week's episode.
post #501 of 885
They seem to be making him more fallible this season. He didn't get shot much last year. tongue.gif
post #502 of 885
He seems to heal faster than that girl on Heroes. He was shot in the lower leg by the police. Performed surgery on himself and was back in action like nothing has happened.

I think they should find a new love interest for him. Isabel Rochev or Felicity would make a great girlfriend.
post #503 of 885
Isabel is the more likely candidate, since we all know that heroes are forbidden from having romances with women who know about their double lives. It would eliminate all the tension and drama of missing dates and constantly having to do things to make up for being a flake, and we can't have that! It would make too much sense to get close to someone who knows his true identity. rolleyes.gif
post #504 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Well, he's inside so he can't fire a self-winding rope arrow up to the rooftop and zip outta' there. And there are an awful lot of red laser-sight dots on him so he probably can't fight his way through them and jump out the window. So, figure he's going to have to be rescued by a diversion created by his posse or another attack by an evildoer going after Laurel that distracts all the cops, thereby allowing him to slip away. After he saves her life again, of course. The word "ingrate" comes to mind.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I think someone in bright red will race by in superspeed and snag Oliver out of there. Oh wait, the Flash doesn't show up until later in the season.

Duane
post #505 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post

He seems to heal faster than that girl on Heroes. He was shot in the lower leg by the police. Performed surgery on himself and was back in action like nothing has happened.

I think they should find a new love interest for him. Isabel Rochev or Felicity would make a great girlfriend.

It was only a flesh wound.

post #506 of 885
Yeah that bullet graze was nothing. If Ollie can survive being shot in the back by three super-titanium carbon-reinforced triple-barbed super arrows from Merlyn last season, he can laugh in the face of bullets! biggrin.gif

And NO to an Ollie/Felicity romance. That would be a chemistry suck and send the trio down a CW path to shipper hell.
post #507 of 885
You knew Felicity was going to bring him coffee at the end... once Ollie proved he was willing to tank his public reputation in order to secretly actually help the people his public persona appeared to fail. So her appearing to be a "lowly" secretary in order to serve the greater good fits the same mold.
post #508 of 885
Okay, I know it was just a little mention, but this nerd got crazy excited about it. Ras al Ghul! Sweet! I mean, if he's mentioned, the ramifications are, Arrow lives in a universe with Batman. Yes, I know the Flash is coming and will be spun off. I just really enjoy tie ins like this, subtle as they may be.
post #509 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

I have a feeling the cliff-hanger at the end of the ep will be resolved quickly.

Out of danger before the title sequence. A bit too cliche.
post #510 of 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

Out of danger before the title sequence. A bit too cliche.

I called it! (sorta'). So the platinum blonde chick (I think IMDB has her credited only as "Pretty girl") is a defector from a super-villain's crew. Okay, and her motivations are murky; that's to be expected.

But how did she know where the Baddie had taken Laurel and her dad? Ollie knew because Felicity tracked down the van Baddie used, but Blondie had no such info - Roy's phone text only said that Laurel had been kidnapped. How did Blondie know where to go?
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