Axiom m60 v3, EMPtek E55ti or Aperion Intimus 5t - Page 2

I would agree with gt that the axioms are more in line with the paradigm monitor series and with the discount that you can get from a dealer, you can get out the door for less money with paradigm. I wish axiom would attempt to make a better speaker, better braced, better drivers, better crossover and better sound as other brands have more than 1 line of speakers. I think it would have been more benificial to attempt that as opposed to their new omnidirectional speaker that they are just releasing.

I haven't heard any Axiom speakers, but I wouldn't mind if they redesigned their ports so that they didn't look like stretched sphincters.

hey thanks for reminding me.....I have to go in for my prostrate exam

LOL!

The claim is that the design reduces port noise.

I have heard the Paradigm Studio series (60 and 100) and the Axiom M80, and anyone who thinks the Axiom M80 sounds like the Paradigm studio speakers needs to get their hearing checked. To me, they did not sound alike at all.

Perhaps the Monitor series..

I also compared an axiom bookshelf to the paradigm studio 20v5. No comparison. The studios easliy won that contest.

A while back, what the two that sounded more similar was the M22 and Studio 20, but as the volume went up, the M22 would lose "composure", and the M22 did not have the same bass extension. 5-7 years ago, I spent A LOT of time with the M22, and also the M60 in my room.

Since then, the Studio 20 has gone through a fair amount of changes, where the M22 has not.

To show just how low quality Axiom is heres a driver comparison.

Arx A1 bookshelf: $249.99+shipping (my total was $270.36) 14lbs


Axiom M2 bookshelf: $328.00 11.2lbs if you want die-cast baskets for you M2s its an extra $15.00 putting total at $343.00

Difference of $73.00

One uses a very very thin stamped basket, the other uses a heavy die cast basket. Both are 5.25" but the Arx is closer to 6", while the Axiom is slightly smaller closer to 4.5".


Now to get your attention these are the exact same woofers Axiom is going to put in their almost $4,000 tower, kind of sad really. Never will you find such an expensive tower using such lower quality woofers.

In fact a recent soundstage review compared M80's to the Monitor 11's...yet I've read many comments(axiom forum) in where they compare them to the 100's or even the sig8's.
Comments like that is what put people off....even me and I own some 22s.

Hahaha, 7/10 (you have to be a little less subtle with your sarcasm on the internet)

sorry

I remember an axiom owner had taken his m80s in and compared
them side by side with the monitor 11v6 at a dealer. I remember the picture of them sitting side by side. He had said there was not alot of difference in sound between the 2. He said a couple of spots that he did notice a difference which that could be just personal preference or not. They are roughly the same price point so it would come down to personal preference. By the way, I think this thread got hijacked. lol

Well, tell us which speaker you went with! I own the EMP T55ti's and am very happy.

According to the Audioholics review, seems like the majority of users liked the e55ti's by a long shot at the end of the day. (compared e55ti's and axiom m60) Again...no idea why more people don't try these! It's RISK FREE!!

I've been an audio enthusiast, albeit a highly pragmatic one, since the late 1960s. It is not a religion with me as it is for a few here.

I presently have 3 sets of Axioms. Two sets are audio only systems (2 X M3s with SS Receiver & 2 X M2s + EP-400 Sub with Tube Amp). My HT has 2 X M22s, 2 X QS4s & 2 Velo subs.

All of these systems sound marvelous to me and many, many others out there as well. A couple of decades of positive, enthusiastic reviews, both pro & from users, bear this out. Axiom has been building fine products using a common sense approach to things for 30 years & have been highly successful at it. Simply put, they wouldn't still be in business if they were producing junk after all of this time.

Linking back to an ancient article where the individual went to war with Axiom because they didn't find that his super duper xover was not found to be an improvement over the stock component (and thus no sales), is really not a legitimate argument. Unfortunately, that stuff hangs around the net forever. I've recently toured their factory (definitely not opulent), been in their anechoic chamber, listened & viewed some sweeps & found the entire crew there to be very professional & enthusiastic - really a nice bunch of folks just trying to make a living in a competitive marketplace.

pd 24, if you are in the US, there may be issues is purchasing ID outside of your country that you may not want to get into; however, dismissing Axiom outright because of a few vehement, longtime detractors here would be a disservice to yourself and others. Remember, speaker tastes are wholly subjective - what other people rave about may not suit you...

TAM

That's all that matters at the end of the day

I would also take the guys that only participate on the forum to shill a product with a HUGE grain of salt, only showing up when a certain brand/product is discussed. And call names of the forum regulars who spend their time helping, offering advice, technical advice and aren't here to shill a product and then leave till its mentioned again.

Speaker tastes are totally subjective. But that doesn't stop the Axiom guys from going all out war against anyone that says something negative. They spew forth vile nasty terms against someone that doesn't like the Axiom sound at the same time they say speaker tastes are wholly subjective.

I've owned Axiom since 2007 and IMO compared to the current offerings from the IDs and the more competitive B&M brands theres better choices out there. You know how you guys always say that Axiom competes with more expensive brands and that those brands just aren't worth it compared to Axiom, you remember that how you guys said that in every thread? Well guess what theres now cheaper more competitive speakers out there that outperform the Axioms for less.

I visit AVS & Audioholics numerous times daily to keep abreast of latest developments for the AV consumer. I only joined the AVS Forum to counter the drivel that I sometimes see here that largely goes unchallenged. As for my posting record, check out the AVS Sub Threads where I recently offered technical advice to a member who was suffering sub hum - because it was the right thing to do! The OP was appreciative.

Despite being an exuberant ' Axiom Fanboy' (a term that you use often) in the past, it is well known that you have been on an anti-Axiom rant all over the net for the past couple of years. Wherever Axiom is mentioned, you show up with the same old diatribes, over & over & over. The same tired pics are included again & again. From the anonymity of your keyboard, I believe that you have done irreparable damage to the good name of this longstanding, reputable company that has provided wonderful products & service to so many people who enjoy this pastime.

For gawd's sake - give it a rest so that I don't have to come in here wasting my time providing a different, reasonable point of view so that members seeking assistance aren't repeatedly lead astray. As I've said before, dispose of your Axioms if you haven't already & get on with your life with your beloved ARX speakers. After all, they are all only speakers & it is just a hobby.

BTW - If anyone is wondering, I've never been banned from any forums...

TAM

You do realize that my post and everyone else's discussing anything to do with Axiom was almost a year ago right?????

This thread got bump just to find out how the OP is doing with his speakers, not by me. Thats until you decided to add your two cent and bitch about people not liking the ports and my pictures comparing the drivers. Which I have every right to do and its informative. Because believe or not people outside of the Axiom forum bubble like to have speakers with high quality drivers and take pride in high quality craftsmanship. So what if someone doesn't like the ports and says something, that means you need to go on a rant constantly and say what you want but no one else does?.

I don't shill Arx speakers on anyone and often times have recommended other speakers many times without ever mentioning anything about Arx. But look who has the nerve to say I can't give it a rest when it was you started this whole ordeal.

I think someone else needs to get on with their lives and stop ******* and moaning every time theres a negative Axiom comment. There just speakers right?????

I've never been banned from any forum either but I don't know what that has to do with anything.

What would you like me to do???? Post pictures of myself all over the forum?? How bout my address, city, state, zip, social security number, blood type,?????? its a forum on the net of course its over a keyboard how else am I going to communicate to everyone on here. I've not kept anything a secret, some on here and other forums knows my name and where I live what more to do you want????

I haven't done anything to hurt Axiom. They've done it to themselves, make a better more competitive product. Instead of living in there own world were the convince themselves through their own DBT that there speakers are better or similarly good.
Edited by gtpsuper24 - 1/7/13 at 4:45pm

Axiom has done no such thing according to many satisfied enthusiasts, both pro & regular consumers; however, it is your ongoing vociferous opinions that perpetuate your myths.

Ahhh, just spent a very pleasing session with my M3 system listening to some blues ' David Gogo - Soul Bender' & remastered 'Eric Clapton - Slowhand'., very nice indeed...

Enuff said - until the next time....

TAM

Instead of getting all worked up. Maybe you should have read the rest of the thread, you know where I made my point 10months ago and left it at that.




^ You mean the guys complaining about the ports. Well they made those WAAAAYYYYY back in March. You sir are the one who "broke" the quite period.

Didn't we spar about this very subject fairly recently (far less than 10 months ago) in another thread that I'm too lazy to go searching for? That thread was the very reason that I joined AVS - to provide some contrasting opinion to yours & some others. Furthermore, a shill I am certainly not. Frankly in my old age, I'd rather be taking a nap than playing around with this foolishness, but someone needs to do it.

Even though this a bumped thread (why I wonder?) from eons ago, it is a significant part of a recurring nasty theme. Because it miraculously rose to the top of the list again, many here will read it as new and probably will be unduly influenced again, or perhaps for the first time.

Until the next time...

Cheers

TAM

People tend to say things on the internet they just would not say in public and that is an unfortunate truth. What I don't understand GT is why you have such a hardon for axiom. Seriously is you don't like a product don't buy it, I hardly think its necessary to make a point of bashing a product based solely on you opinion. I thinks its fine to say something like, " I didn't care for such and such product" but to continually hunt down certain products and bash them with the intent of being malicious is just juvenile. As to the point of a cast versus stamped basket, there is no need for a small lite weight driver to have a cast basket,it is nothing more than window dressing. It theoretically could dissipate heat but strictly from a listening stand point it has no basis. Large woofer's supposedly do benefit from a cast basket. Maybe cars should be made of cast aluminum since it is so superior.<< sarcasm in case you missed it. My mom always said , " if you have nothing good to contribute , shut the **** up.

I have to say that I have two pairs of QS8s for the surrounds in my theatre and love them. I don't plan on buying anymore Axiom speakers but I'd have no problem recommending the QS8s to someone else.

It was bumped to ask how the OP is enjoying his speakers. Nothing more. That until you started accusing of leading people astray and not to listen to any of the AVS detractors. Sorry you feel you have to patrol the forums searching for Axiom comments and go and defend them. Does Axiom give you discounts on your speakers for helping them so much???

My point being about the baskets was to show the disparity between offering a product with quality parts for less than what Axiom does while skimping on the quality aspects. How can Axiom charge $1500 for a tower that only offers basic vinyl finish and cheap stamped drivers and very little bracing. While the competition is offering cast alloy baskets as standard, piano gloss standard, dual binding posts standard heavy more solid cabinets standard. All while charging the same or in some cases less than Axiom charges for the short cut products. Don't forget some offer free shipping back too unlike Axiom.

Once you add all those options to an Axiom speaker to MATCH what the competition does they became double the price of the competition. $2700 to match what the Aperion Grand tower does for $1600, and $1999 for whtat the SVS Ultra towers does. So why on earth would anyone recommend Axiom. Its not me who continues on or who has "bashed" Axiom products its been going on way before I even signed up on AVS back in '08 and its across all kinds of forums. Some I have never even signed up for. You gonna go bump those threads to attack them too????

Have you ever been able to form and opinion outside of the Axiom forum bubble???? You don't have opinions on anything, its what you read from the Axiom employees and you just regurgitate what the talking points are. Its funny you guys read something for Alan Loft or one of the others and its immediatly a fact and its spewd forth across the forums against anyone who disagrees with you.

I'll see you guys in the next thread with Axiom in the title so you guys can bombard that thread too.

Let me be clear - I have absolutely no 'in' with the company. Last year on my own initiative & out of the goodness of my heart (remember that quality in people?) I mailed to them a bunch of original vintage documents (early 90s Product Brochures, User Leaflets, etc that can be seen on their site) for their museum; however, they've never reimbursed me in any way. I didn't expect, nor want them to - hard concept to take in for many these days I guess. My speakers & stands are all 'B Stock' purchased in the normal way - ID - that was the only discount, just like any other customer.

When searching for my speakers last year to replace my pristine, award-winning, vintage, Axiom AX2s (still on lifetime warranty after 20+ years) I auditioned many units at different stores locally. Brands included many of the ones noted here in AVS including Polk, Focal, Klipsch, Mission, Tannoys, Yamaha (wood drivers?), etc, etc. While auditioning in a store is far from ideal & not fair in order to hear the full potential of a product, nothing jumped out as being vastly superior to its competitors nor to my home system. I know that I should have taken them all home for an audition, then disassembled them, taken pics of the innards & hopefully reassemble them correctly & return them to the retailer. Sorry, but I'm not that kind of customer.

It came down to the fact that all of the towers in the $1000+ range that I auditioned were all more than competent, were similarly good but all sounded slightly different from each other - nothing more, nothing less; however, the big Klipsches stood out somewhat as they had more bass extension than the rest - but not down to the sub range that I was used to. None of them 'blew me away' (I hate that overused phrase) but being a born cynic, I expected that.

My audio memory is very short; however, after all of the auditions, my older home Axiom/Velodyne system sounded better to me than anything that I heard in the marketplace. I'm sure that my home listening area has a lot to do with it & perhaps I was used to its sound, but my older system really sounded superior to me. Because it was time to get something new to last me another 20 years, when I purchased my M2s & EP-400 for my audio system, it was a small step up again from the vintage units & still far more pleasing to me than those in the stores. It's quite amazing really, considering that the M2s have only stamped baskets, ha!

I have opinions just like anyone else; however I don't spout off on things that I've had no meaningful experience. I do read a lot though & I really do enjoy many of your posts as you are quite knowledgeable in many ways. I just think that your never ending vendetta against a specific company is inappropriate..

I posted the following at the Axiom Forum for their consumption & I'm sure that you've probably read it already. This is how I, and I suspect the vast majority of people, handle matters like this:

A short story from me. I bought a new, early production 2007 CUV from a large Asian auto manufacturer. Although I loved the vehicle's design & performance, unfortunately I found out on the net that I had predicable, multiple major mechanical problems coming down the road. Seems that it came to market a year too early. Although the local dealer took really good care of me, after 4 years of major repairs (all under warranty but majorly inconvenient) I'd had enough when I found that now timing chains were breaking. Hence I switched to my present trouble free CUV.

Unlike speakers that are rather unimportant in one's life (sorry Ian, ha!), a $40K vehicle that is one's main transportation is. Once I traded in the bad vehicle, I was through with its forums & all reference to it in my life. As a mature & pragmatic individual, I put out $20K that I hadn't intended to, licked my wounds & got on with my life. I wouldn't even think of frequenting the forums or the net for years to continually slag the other manufacturer, although I probably had ample justification to do so - certainly more than not liking a damn speaker. It's just not in me to initiate nor participate in this kind of vile, juvenile behavior.

I think that that says it all...

TAM

This is how I feel about Axiom. Theres no vendetta against them and theres no juvenile behavior. I try and recommend the best products for the money cause even though you think its "Just Speakers" its people hard earned money and while speakers themselves aren't important in life, people's money is.

The animosity between myself and the Axioms guys all started because I said something harmless or so I though. (Axiom subwoofers suck for the price) that right there started this so call war and vendetta. (with ridiculous name calling by the so called mature Axiom forum members) I have two opinions, 1 either make top notch products that match or exceed the competition and price point or continue with the same product at much lower costs.

IMO One thing that would make Axiom alittle more attractive and cool down some of the animosity would be to offer cast baskets as standard no cost options across the entire line with no price increase. Towers, should offer dual binding posts at current prices as standard option, subwoofers should have cabinets all revised to offer thicker front baffles and cabinet bracing (this has been said many times even as far back as the EP600 test on HTS way back when, but was attacked and ignored as "trolls") More standard vinyl finishes or much reduced costs for finish options. $1000 for piano gloss on the M80s is just nuts thats more than what some speakers cost in total that offer piano gloss.

My issues is those above and how they have $1500 towers that offer the build quality of $400-700 towers. Axiom doesn't want to improve the quality of the products thats totally find. But they should price them inline with the lower end speakers.

I developed my opinion based on having Axioms in my living room as well as almost a dozen other bookshelfs from B&M and ID. From $200 bookshelfs to $850 bookshelfs Axiom IMO had the absolute lowest cheap quality components and build off all of them. To me Axiom seems more about squeezing every last penny out of a speaker than lower profit margins and making world class speakers.

OK, since you turned against your Axioms some time ago, that has been your longstanding opinion & you are entitled to your feelings. You have espoused them many, many times in many, many places. Whether or not it is appropriate to continue your vendetta (that's what it seems to many), that is another question.

Your assessments is not shared by the many satisfied & more than happy customers out there. What they choose to pay for their gear is their decision as it is Axiom's sole strategy on how they run their business. Personally, I found my Axioms to be good bang for the buck when contrasted to what I heard in the retail marketplace. That's where I come from in everything that I purchase. Furthermore, I don't easily tire of my gear & change it out as often as many people seem to. I don't get it; however, it keeps the speaker companies in business & that's a good thing..

Chad, It is time to let it go and continue on with your other thoughtful knowledge & fine contributions. .

For those who haven't seen anything on Axiom's latest flagship offering, here is an interesting article. I believe that he is a musician who should know how sound should sound. Of note are his comments on build quality, etc - again just one man's opinion that I believe is quite trustworthy:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-reviews/62881-axiom-lfr1100-omni-directional-speaker.html#axzz2HQ1V9Rga

I heard a pair of prototypes in Axiom's sound room. They were fine, but not for me...

TAM

I saw that review amongst others posted over at HTS because Axiom Audio is now a advertsing partner there ..one thing I found strange was outside of the mods heaping praise there was very little interaction or comments from other members....if I recall it was the m22 inwall review. My experiment with Axiom speakers lasted about 6months....I have no bones to pick with them and I enjoyed my time over at Axioms forum with guys like Dean, Dan and Fred(and few others)...but you also have a few guys who went way over the top with PM's too me( I'm sure GT had a similar fate) and why I wouldn't recommend Axioms...fwiw....I still have my Q4's, first speakers I purchased from Axiom...going on 3+yrs now.

Cheers...Bill
Edited by Billy p - 1/8/13 at 3:01pm