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Most Important Aspect of an Audio System - Page 7

post #181 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post


Seriously! I say we send him off to the Ultra High End HT Gear room, just for laughs.

LOL - that would be entertaining.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Nuance...you have to look at it as entertainment. When you do, it takes on a whole new meaning.

Think about how much work is put into a Salk bookshelf speaker cabinet. $5? Even in just raw materials...no way.

Ha, good point buddy. You're a wise man.
post #182 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Its alot closer to $5 bucks for a cabinet than it is to $50 without question, especially with what you dont pay for labor over there. Here is a nice lil link: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=302-700 $100 bucks a pair, RETAIL. WHat do you think parts xpress makes on this item? WHat do you think they buy at? I bet they buy at around $40-50 tops for the pair, and then take into account these are finished in gloss black paint, with magnetic grilles........and they are the "end retailer"........so how much does it cost Dayton to make or outsource them do you think so they can make a profit as well? So if Mark whoever was quoting $40-50 a pair, thats probably about right.........the actual mfg. of those cabinets was probably able to make each pair in the $5-10 range or less. Backs my point quite well.

OK...so who gets them at that $5-$10 range?
post #183 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I wonder if I had been more specific about a multi-channel Home Theater system, would the results would be the same?

Or as you mentioned earlier, would the results be different if this were posted in another forum (Audio Theory Setup & Chat, Amps, Receivers, & Processors, etc.)
post #184 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

How about we change this up a lil bit and put it into much better perspective? Give me a link to what you consider to be a great "high end" speaker........something thats still within the reach of a typical AVS board member.

I already did. Take the time to actually READ!
post #185 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Its alot closer to $5 bucks for a cabinet than it is to $50 without question, especially with what you dont pay for labor over there.

Please show actual proof of these claims. Not a link to Parts Express which does not back up your claims at all. Ever consider that some speaker manufacturers actually spend more on materials and labor on their cabinents then other manufacturers? You seem to be grouping all speaket cabinents and their costs in one group. Doesn't work that way and I would think you would know that.

Bill
post #186 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post


Please show actual proof of these claims. Not a link to Parts Express which does not back up your claims at all. Ever consider that some speaker manufacturers actually spend more on materials and labor on their cabinents then other manufactures? You seem to be grouping all speaket cabinents and their costs in one group. Doesn't work that way and I would think you would know that.

Bill

Apparently he doesn't. You'd think the fact that it's him versus the masses would clue him in, which supports my theory that he's just bored and seeking attention. These types pop up frequently on AVS unfortunately.

Ntrain, prove what you're saying. Also, prove that you have Salons and engineered them to be better than Harman did. I want pictures and the full board of measurements.

Curtis, does this remind you of another discussion many of us had with a past AVS member who built his own speakers that sounded "better than anything available?"
post #187 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Well if a DIYer wanted to make a pair of monitors or towers with a pair of those tweeters, I can garetee you he is still going to be saving serious coin vs. paying X amount of dollars to have them implemented in a prefabbed speaker where marketing costs, distributor and/or end retailer markup is also tagged on. Honestly though I personally wouldnt waste money on a RAAL driver when for the same money or less you can get a superior full range driver like something from Fostex, or Lowther, Seas,Markaudio(or name another brand of choosing) and bypass needing any xover whatsoever. Ribbons are nice, but have too many limitations and shortcomings. I personally prefer keeping things simple with point source/full range setups in a monitor format.

The RAAL driver is 25 dBs down in 1 ms. These full range drivers would best it in decay in the same pass band? I thought there are limitations of building any speaker.

List your ideas in this thread and you should be able to get constructive criticism from many designers.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103720.0
post #188 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Wow I never understood why would anyone have a problem on how a company would try to make a profit,( Notice I say try) if they have something I want it's worth the cost to me.
McDonald sell fries for for $2.30 or so for large serving..That's about the cost of a bag of potato, but the time to peel, cut, oil transporting all those major ingredients and burning of a few hairs of my arm something isn't worth it to me. So I see it as a deal to just jump in one these fast food place and just pay for an order if that's what I'm jonesing.

As much respect I have for Diyer's, I just don't have those set of skills and probably why I have and enjoying reading about those guys doing their magic. Besides I would like to do something like this if I had to make my own speaker, and buy the look of it I'm sure it wasn't cheap. http://www.hometheater.com/content/diy-max I'm sure this guy would charge a pretty penny for these if anyone would want a pair, and i would gladly pay it for his pain and suffering.

DJoel

Profit is not the problem, but there comes a point when reasonable turns into rediculous. And some of these "high end" products just aren't that, other than their pricetag and/or how much marketing muscle they have under their belt.

And not everyone has the skill set to build their own, you're right there as well too, which is why I think its too bad how some of these "high end" A/V companies will end up pricing themselves out of business. Its actually happened alot over the last 5 years. Audiogon has been choke full of good deals on some good equipment lately.

Regardless, I just feel that speakers and interconnects are grossly overpriced. And to get back on topic, with your room setup properly to suit your tastes for audio and aethetics coupled with good equipment thats designed to help taylor and fine tune your speaker to the room accoustics, you can without question keep the money needed for speakers much lower, and not have to do the endless search for the perfect sound game that so many people here do.

$1000 power cable anyone?
post #189 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Profit is not the problem, but there comes a point when reasonable turns into rediculous. And some of these "high end" products just aren't that, other than their pricetag and/or how much marketing muscle they have under their belt.

And not everyone has the skill set to build their own, you're right there as well too, which is why I think its too bad how some of these "high end" A/V companies will end up pricing themselves out of business. Its actually happened alot over the last 5 years. Audiogon has been choke full of good deals on some good equipment lately.

Regardless, I just feel that speakers and interconnects are grossly overpriced. And to get back on topic, with your room setup properly to suit your tastes for audio and aethetics coupled with good equipment thats designed to help taylor and fine tune your speaker to the room accoustics, you can without question keep the money needed for speakers much lower, and not have to do the endless search for the perfect sound game that so many people here do.

$1000 power cable anyone?

Says the guy who willingly sold voodoo and snake oil. Oh the irony!
post #190 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

does this remind you of another discussion many of us had with a past AVS member who built his own speakers that sounded "better than anything available?"

Ahhh I remember someone that fits that description. He was quick to penn away at his thoughts but was a little gray in certain areas. Whatever happened to that guy? Probably to busy to post on AVS counting all his money or out on the golf course.

Bill
post #191 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post


Ahhh I remember someone that fits that description. He was quick to penn away at his thoughts but was a little gray in certain areas. Whatever happened to that guy? Probably to busy to post on AVS counting all his money or out on the golf course.

Bill

ROFLOL - you got it buddy!
post #192 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

And to get back on topic,

Now thats hoot.

Bill
post #193 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Apparently he doesn't. You'd think the fact that it's him versus the ma55es would clue him in, which supports my theory that he's just bored and seeking attention. These types pop up frequently on AVS unfortunately.

Someone immediately comes to mind, a frequent poster in the subwoofer threads...
post #194 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Curtis, does this remind you of another discussion many of us had with a past AVS member who built his own speakers that sounded "better than anything available?"

They are everywhere I tell ya!!

I have HIGH respects for the DIYer...very high. I wish I had the skills and patience.

There is one thing that everyone has to keep in mind, the DIYer has only one person to satisfy and support...so the quality can vary greatly.

A company, in order to survive, has to satisfy and support many, and the highest quality will cover them all.
post #195 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

The RAAL driver is 25 dBs down in 1 ms. These full range drivers would best it in decay in the same pass band? I thought there are limitations of building any speaker.

List your ideas in this thread and you should be able to get constructive criticism from many designers.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103720.0

Im already a card carrying member. ANyway, can you edit what you were trying to state? Im not making much sense of the question........
post #196 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Someone immediately comes to mind, a frequent poster in the subwoofer threads...

And old Onkyo pre/pro threads

Dan
post #197 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

I bet a lot of voters' own systems more similar to mine than, say, to yours, and it's skewing the results.

I doubt that. I think they voted speakers because they are most important in their opinion based on their experiences.
post #198 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Says the guy who willingly sold voodoo and snake oil. Oh the irony!

THe irony is very much there.....Im just smart enough to stand on the correct(and profitable) side of it.
post #199 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

The RAAL driver is 25 dBs down in 1 ms. These full range drivers would best it in decay in the same pass band? I thought there are limitations of building any speaker.

List your ideas in this thread and you should be able to get constructive criticism from many designers.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103720.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Im already a card carrying member. ANyway, can you edit what you were trying to state? Im not making much sense of the question........

You not understanding kwarny's question says A LOT!
post #200 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

So this is fun?

well, it was until a certain poster showed up...
post #201 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

They are everywhere I tell ya!!

I have HIGH respects for the DIYer...very high. I wish I had the skills and patience.

There is one thing that everyone has to keep in mind, the DIYer has only one person to satisfy and support...so the quality can vary greatly.

A company, in order to survive, has to satisfy and support many, and the highest quality will cover them all.

THERE, hit the nail on the head...enough said, close up shop, it's a wrap, and no need to discuss this any further.

maintaining a certain standard is what takes the prize, and easier said than done..This is the reason you don't hear JimS, or DaveF on vacation, and they have to maintain a constant standard, or else


Djoel
post #202 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well, it was until a certain poster showed up...

Sorry man, it was a sincere question I was asking about active crossovers
post #203 of 280
^^^

that wasn't directed at you... nothing wrong with your question...
post #204 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

that wasn't directed at you... nothing wrong with your question...

Hehe. I know, I was just bein' a tool.
post #205 of 280
ntrain...you still haven't answered my question about your Rythmik. Why did you buy it rather than make it yourself?
post #206 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Ahhh I remember someone that fits that description. He was quick to penn away at his thoughts but was a little gray in certain areas. Whatever happened to that guy? Probably to busy to post on AVS counting all his money or out on the golf course.

Bill

too good bill...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

They are everywhere I tell ya!!

I have HIGH respects for the DIYer...very high. I wish I had the skills and patience.

There is one thing that everyone has to keep in mind, the DIYer has only one person to satisfy and support...so the quality can vary greatly.

A company, in order to survive, has to satisfy and support many, and the highest quality will cover them all.

while i respect the diy'er, most of them also realize that time is money, and time (like money) does not grow on trees...

most are also a bit more realistic about product costs, and respect the work that at least some speaker vendors do...

but what do i know? i guess i wasted $16k when i could have spent $160...
post #207 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i guess i wasted $16k when i could have spent $160...

Let me know when you figure out the math on that one.
post #208 of 280
I thank my lucky stars for people like Dennis Murphy. To think, I could have been bamboozled by Highcolonicaudio, complete with budget mdf and active crossovers!

post #209 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

while i respect the diy'er, most of them also realize that time is money, and time (like money) does not grow on trees...

most are also a bit more realistic about product costs, and respect the work that at least some speaker vendors do...

but what do i know? i guess i wasted $16k when i could have spent $160...

Chris,

I agree in that I respect the DIYer's very much as well. I definitely do not have the skill set, the knowledge, the patience or the time to build a speaker that would be worth more than $5.00. The one aspect of the DIY route that our favorite new member doesn't mention is the labor involved to make ones own speakers.

I don't think you wasted your $16k in the least. I dropped a whopping $2700.00 on my SongTowers and SongCenter. I strongly feel these speakers were a straight up bargain. I tend to doubt very few DIYers can match the craftsmanship of the cabinents of Jim Salks speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I thank my lucky stars for people like Dennis Murphy.

I do as well. I say leave that stuff to the professionals.

Bill
post #210 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Let me know when you figure out the math on that one.

it must be that new-fangled math they are teaching these days... cuz i can't figure it out either...
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