2012 models are disappointing - Page 4

Originally Posted by Superman07

This seems like it would be a great thread to find a comprehensive matrix of 2012 products, yet I've only heard a few generalities by brand...and lots of economics talk...

Originally Posted by bfreedma

If there are compelling new capabilities developed that aren't being offered, I haven't seen them. Complaining that the vendors won't offer premium features like XT32 in less expensive units is being unrealistic, at least until XT64 (or whatever) is available. Why would a vendor cannibalize it's own premium market?

Originally Posted by bhazard

When/if the 2012 models don't sell, the companies will be forced to re-evaluate.

It doesn't look like this is the year of <$1,000 XT32 though. Maybe next year. Someone will eventually get it. $$$$ and sales talk.

Originally Posted by bhazard


People like to think they're always right, and have condescending attitudes against others while doing so. I can do the same and talk about 2012 models at the same time.

"Onkyo Announces TX-NR 717 and TX-NR 818 Mid-range Receivers" 818 has XT32 included, MSRP $1199. Pre-order prices and sales will most likely bring it to $999 or less, as seen with previous 8xx models.

I guess Onkyo didn't take the "unrealistic" advice of the "economics experts" here. Silly competition forcing others to innovate or to provide a similar product at the same price point....

Originally Posted by Legends

Shhh, don't tell anyone but, try out Emotiva.

Originally Posted by bhazard

Looks like I nailed it. The Onkyo 818 is going to have XT32. Very smart move by Onkyo.

Originally Posted by mjpearce023

Excellent news! I have been wanting XT32 for the longest. If the 818 sells for a similar price as the 809 then I will have one for sure.

Originally Posted by Venomous

Hopefully they have addressed their piss poor quality control on their new receivers. I would never give onkyo time of day anymore based on my own experience with them.

Originally Posted by Venomous

Hopefully they have addressed their piss poor quality control on their new receivers. I would never give onkyo time of day anymore based on my own experience with them.

Originally Posted by mjpearce023

I am wondering if the 3313 will have XT32 because I really like my 3311 and would like to stay Denon if possible. All I know is that my next receiver will have XT32.

Originally Posted by KidHorn

From everything I've read, it looks like the 2012 models of receivers are a big disappointment. In most cases there's no real difference between 2011 and 2012 models. It seems like all that's happened is the model numbers and price were pushed up a little. I've read about Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo. Pretty much all the major brands.

I was hoping higher end audyssey worked it's way into lower models. It doesn't look like it.

I was hoping 9.2 and higher worked down into lower end models. Nope.

I was hoping pre-outs worked their way into lower end models. Nope.

I was hoping mcacc and/or ypao added sub eq. Nope.

It seems like TVs have better 2012 models, but not AV equipment.

Originally Posted by guisar

Meaning very few models have them.

Originally Posted by zoetmb

How many people who are buying a new receiver have more than one video device that's not HDMI?

Originally Posted by zoetmb

Back in 1980, I paid around $400 for a good quality 2-channel preamp. (Apt-Holman). That's $1105 in 2012 dollars and that's just for a preamp, obviously without any web connectivity, services or digital processing and it was only 2-channel.

Personally, I'd wish they'd take half the crap features OUT of the models and prioritize on high quality sound.

Originally Posted by AVTrauma

mj - careful with the new Onkyo line (809 -> 818) possibly just repackaging with a new name from last years models, and as eluded to in this thread, without significant changes (as done by all manufacturers/models). Unfortunately, after the X08/XX08 model fiasco, Onkyo was again forced to issue a press release recently with the X09 models due to shutting down.

Originally Posted by edo101

I agree, i thought lower model ONkyo this year will have Multi Eq XT for subs. at least for the 609's replacement.

I believe for AVRs the most important "audio" enhancers like room correction should be available. Leave out the extra stuff like 2 HDMI outs, 9.2, zone audio for higher end AVRs. but leave the core audio packet in tact.

My biggest gripe has been the lack of Subwoofer Eq room correction for lower end AVR. Like who gives a crap about some of the network stuff, improve CORE AUDIO qualities

Originally Posted by guns&motorcycles

The Denon 1712 does that pretty well. No networking, but Audyssey MultEQ XT. I'd like it if Onkyo did something similar.

Originally Posted by mjpearce023

Thanks for the info. I just looked it up and found the recall, at least the UK version. I can't believe they did it again. It's really bad that the models were from October 2011 to Jan 2012 because that would mean that they tried to cut corners after selling them for several months. That's pretty bad. I also wonder if the 818 will really have XT32. The release says the 717 will have 2EQ which makes no sense at all so I wouldn't be surprised if the XT32 was a typo or mistake as well.

Originally Posted by jproy13

Leaves little $$$ for R&D on what matters, amplification.

Originally Posted by Audiodork


I am guessing it is Subcontractors (again like with the IDE Cable in the x08 Series) that are behind the Transistor Board which is the reason for the Recall on the November-January x09's. Given that Onkyo has acted quickly to get the affected AVR's off Retailers Stock and I too have heard far less complaints about the x09's makes me feel better about the current direction of Onkyo.

For what its worth, I have had a TX-NR3008 for 8 Months and has been flawless. I use it strictly as a Prepro, but it has been just fine. My former TX-SR805 and 875 were both sold to friends and both are now 5 years old and have never needed repair as well. I did have a TX-NR3007 that was a disaster. It was a Refurbished Model (the only one of the 4), but between Service Center ineptitude and a bizarre issue, I was without an HDMI AVR from May until early July. Onkyo ended giving me an A-Stock 3008 which I mentioned above. I also value AVR's Made in Japan and lament that Denon too has started to move all production away from Japan. As the 5808CI is a pretty old design that requires an additional $1000 to add XT32 and HDMI 1.4 (these updates will always need to be done by the Owner sending it in) and the 4810 too is fairly dated, it makes sense why they remain built there.
Cheers,
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Originally Posted by DS-21Phone 


That's a silly comment. Receiver makers either use bog standard ab designs that have not been materially changed since the 1970s, or pick up an off the peg solution (chip amps, modules such as icepower) from a 3d party. Even the powersupplies are generally mid century technology, ei cores or torroids and not modern switch mode ps's. And that's fine. Amps evolved in the mid 20th century to be sonically transparent. But most avr makers have been woefully inadequate in improving their amps where actual improvements can be made, such as energy efficiency.


The last avr's to offer amps resulting from actual R&D were the TI/Panasonic models from last decade...