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Ry's DR200 Build Thread

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Well, thanks to MKtheater's thorough testing and reviews thread here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1353217 , I've decided to make the plunge and build BFM DR200's for LCR duties in my modest dedicated theater.

I'd heard that they are a challenge to make. This was no lie. I've already put quite a few hours into the first one, and I haven't even put a finish on it yet. I've built several different subs and a set of BFM SLA's in the past, and I can tell you that these are on a whole new level of difficulty.

Pics:


After ripping the 1/2" Baltic Birch down to rough sized pieces, I started on the throat horn. This is the divider. Not sure if you can see, but I had to round over the end.


Here I'm beginning the assembly of the throat horn. you need a specific angle on it so the 2x4 you see there has the angle trimmed in one side. Makes it easier to clamp everything together properly.


Here's the throat horn pretty much assembled. If you look close you can see the divider from the first pic in the center.


Here it's attached to the woofer baffle and the vents are cut


Another view , with some bracing added for later use.


Working on cutting out the semi-circles on a top/bottom piece. This would have been quicker and easier if I'd had a larger circle jig for my router, but the jigsaw made pretty fast work of it.


Attaching the two together. Already cut the driver access in the top. Or is it the bottom?


Top and bottom are both attached now. Starting to take shape!

I have more pics, but I need to upload them from my camera. More to come tomorrow!
post #2 of 46
Nice progress so far. I thought about building a pair of the 250's but will have to wait while for any builds to commence.
post #3 of 46
Nice work! I'm currently building four OmniTop 12's (not for HT use though). I considered the DRs, but build pictures like these made me think otherwise.
post #4 of 46
Looks nice!

sub'd


dbl
post #5 of 46
Thread Starter 

After pricing the components individually, I decided to order two kits from speakerhardware.com. The cost was about the same or less, and it saved me the trouble of ordering from multiple sites. They even caught a mistake I made (I ordered extra parts not realizing they came included with the kit,) and contacted me to double check. Saved me some dough, for which I'm grateful. Game of Thrones was not included, but I figured everyone likes a size reference, no?


Marking the holes


Gluing up some melded tweeter arrays. The jig really did make it fairly easy.


Tryin' it on for size. Tip-Read the plans. Thoroughly. Then read them again. I definitely could've saved myself some trouble had I been more careful reading the plans. I had to take a chisel to remove some wood so the array would fit. My fault


Not too complex as far as these things go.


I ended up buying ten feet of 4" pipe because the pre-cut pieces at HD were $11 for two feet. I payed $20 for 10'. Cut them in sections, then cut them lengthwise, then stuck em on there.


It's got wings! No, I'm just making the butt cheeks You'll see....


Side braces installed and vents cut.


Sides are on. Starting to feel like I'm getting close!


Nice Butt, eh? Told you you'd get a chance to see it.


First coat of Rustolium truck bed liner. Hint- Never use this stuff. The smell was so strong, I was getting a little sick from the fumes. And this is outdoors, in my driveway. Then I put it in the garage and went to work. I got home and the whole house smells of the crap. Strongly. Looks like my new baby is going to be spending the night out in the kids' playhouse to air out some....

On the plus side, the finish looks nice I'll snap a pic of it after the fumes die down a bit.

One down.....
post #6 of 46
Very nice build!
post #7 of 46
Awesome! Make sure you measure and EQ flat at the LP. These have more dynamics and clarity than anything I have heard.
post #8 of 46
Looking good RyGuy!
On your crossover board--stand one of your coils up on its edge. You will get a lot of cross-talk between the two if you leave them as they are.

Oh, and what did you use to form the cheeks? It looks like it flexed very nicely.
post #9 of 46
Nice work RyGuy!

On the next one, can you show more pics of what you do with the tweets? I had no idea that they were set up that way.

dbl
post #10 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys! MK, for now, I'll be running Audyssey exclusively for my eq. I'm on a tight budget here, so no mini dsp for now.

PI, thanks for the heads up on the inductors, I'll pull er apart and see if I can pry the hot glue loose.

In the plans, he recommends cutting the cheeks from 1/8" ply and then coiling them and tying them up for a few days. I bent them into a half circle and used some clamps to hold them there. That's how they came to have the pre curved shape you see in the pic

Edit: Another tip- the lumberyard I bought from was out of 1/8" ply, but I noticed that the cover sheet they had protecting the 1/2" BB was in good shape and very flexible. And about 1/8" thick. They just gave it to me. Saved me $18 bucks
post #11 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbldare View Post

Nice work RyGuy!

On the next one, can you show more pics of what you do with the tweets? I had no idea that they were set up that way.

dbl

Sadly, I already cut all the tweets for the next one with the last batch. I used a jig to cut them, but I feel like I still could have been a bit more accurate with the cuts. I'll be sure to take some pics when I do cut some more, though.

Here's a tip. Pay attention when you cut the piezo's. Not only for safety's sake, but also to keep from cutting too many. I set four aside so I would know not to trim both top and bottom. Bottom two and top two need to be trimmed on one side only so they fit correctly. What I didn't think about, was that I was cutting enough for two DR200's, not one. Oops....should have set eight aside
post #12 of 46
I'm too lazy to click the link that you provided, so I'm just going to ask how much does it cost to build a pair of these bad boys?

Also, are you planning a road trip to Dallas any time soon so I can hear them? I know it's a long shot, but what the heck.
post #13 of 46
RyGuy,

No one I know of has ever done good, independent, outdoor or gated measurements of these cabs. Do you have the capability to do on and off axis gated measurements? I would be very interested to see how these measure.

Something tells me that the off axis response will have one hell of a bloom at and just beyond the piezo crossover point. Below the piezo cross, a much tighter pattern due to the radiating area/horn shape. Asking an 8" driver loaded horn to go from 150Hz all the way to and slightly past ~2kHz is a tall order with constant directivity.

Vertical directivity would be likely more uniform throughout the passband, due to the piezo line and the small vertical flare of the last horn segment.

MKTheater has a room that is so absorbent that power response abnormalities are effectively nulled if the speakers are properly aimed.

That these things are a good value is an understatement. I just am curious as to their specific properties.

JSS
post #14 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

I'm too lazy to click the link that you provided, so I'm just going to ask how much does it cost to build a pair of these bad boys?

Also, are you planning a road trip to Dallas any time soon so I can hear them? I know it's a long shot, but what the heck.

Without sitting down and doing some dreaded "math," I'd estimate a bit over $200 apiece. Definitely a great deal....If you don't mind putting in some hours.

As far as a road trip, I wouldn't hold my breath....

You should hop in the ol' T100 and come see the beautiful Northwest
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

RyGuy,

No one I know of has ever done good, independent, outdoor or gated measurements of these cabs. Do you have the capability to do on and off axis gated measurements? I would be very interested to see how these measure.

Something tells me that the off axis response will have one hell of a bloom at and just beyond the piezo crossover point. Below the piezo cross, a much tighter pattern due to the radiating area/horn shape. Asking an 8" driver loaded horn to go from 150Hz all the way to and slightly past ~2kHz is a tall order with constant directivity.

Vertical directivity would be likely more uniform throughout the passband, due to the piezo line and the small vertical flare of the last horn segment.

MKTheater has a room that is so absorbent that power response abnormalities are effectively nulled if the speakers are properly aimed.

That these things are a good value is an understatement. I just am curious as to their specific properties.

JSS

Well, I have a RatShack SPL, an Audyssey mic, an interface, and a laptop with REW installed. No calibrated mic for now. If you think I could get anything worthwhile with this equipment and wanted to walk me through it step by step, I'm game

I don't have any acoustic treatment in my room yet, so I know that the performance will be greatly compromised. I plan on two more DR200's and two Wedgehorn 6's. Then it's time to do some room treatments. I've spent some time on the treatment master thread, and I can tell this is going to require some time investment on my part.

MK, how long do you think it took to break in your DR's before you really started liking the sound?
post #15 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post


Without sitting down and doing some dreaded "math," I'd estimate a bit over $200 apiece. Definitely a great deal....If you don't mind putting in some hours.

As far as a road trip, I wouldn't hold my breath....

You should hop in the ol' T100 and come see the beautiful Northwest

Well, I have a RatShack SPL, an Audyssey mic, an interface, and a laptop with REW installed. No calibrated mic for now. If you think I could get anything worthwhile with this equipment and wanted to walk me through it step by step, I'm game

I don't have any acoustic treatment in my room yet, so I know that the performance will be greatly compromised. I plan on two more DR200's and two Wedgehorn 6's. Then it's time to do some room treatments. I've spent some time on the treatment master thread, and I can tell this is going to require some time investment on my part.

MK, how long do you think it took to break in your DR's before you really started liking the sound?

I am not sure. I have been tweaking and made things worse. Max, what do you want me to do for measurements?
post #16 of 46
Thread Starter 
And by the way, I can still barely stand to be in the same room as my new speaker, thanks to the finish I applied. Going on three days now. Is Duratex anywhere near this toxic? Holy crap, this stuff is noxious.
post #17 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am not sure. I have been tweaking and made things worse. Max, what do you want me to do for measurements?

Uh, oh. What'd ya do?
post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post


Uh, oh. What'd ya do?

I am just messing with the built in EQ of the elite. I am not sure what MCAAC does but I am not flat at my seat when measuring each speaker. When I EQ'd myself I got that palpable feeling back but the elite does not sound as good as the Ada at loud volumes. Also, with the limited adjustments on the EQ I still have some peaks in the response but even though I looks bad it is still +/- 3 dBs.
post #19 of 46
Duratex is not toxic. It's a water based costing that doesn't give off much for fumes. It's also very durable like truck coating. To minimize the duratex used I always cost the enclosure with flat black paint first and then use the duratex to give the texture.
post #20 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

Duratex is not toxic. It's a water based costing that doesn't give off much for fumes. It's also very durable like truck coating. To minimize the duratex used I always cost the enclosure with flat black paint first and then use the duratex to give the texture.

Good to know. I think next time it'll just be black latex paint. They'll be behind my screen anyway, so no one will see them. I just wanted to try something new.

Ah well, you win some, you lose some.
post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post

Good to know. I think next time it'll just be black latex paint.

I recommend DuraTex because it's hands down the best product available that doesn't require professional application. IMO DIY truck bed liner should be left on truck beds. It's just the wrong tool for the job.
post #22 of 46
Duratex is a great coating to use. Everything others had said is true. Very very little odor. And a little goes a looooong way.
post #23 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


I recommend DuraTex because it's hands down the best product available that doesn't require professional application. IMO DIY truck bed liner should be left on truck beds. It's just the wrong tool for the job.

I completely agree with you, sir. If I was to use the DR's for their intended purpose, I would certainly use the DuraTex. That junk I rolled on there is most certainly the wrong tool for the job.
post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am not sure. I have been tweaking and made things worse. Max, what do you want me to do for measurements?

Would be very good if you could do measurements with speaker and mic up on a 4' stands, speaker about 2-3 meters away, aimed at the mic carefully (most HF energy w/ vertical aiming), and take REW sweeps at 5 degree intervals horizontally off axis up to about 45 degs, and vertically at 6" intervals up or down from center up to about 2 feet. I can gate the measurements for you if you post the REW measurement files, or you can do it yourself with OmniMic. Just take a pic of the setup and nearest boundaies to set gating properly.

Other than irregular off-axis response, the fact that the piezos are not delayed will cause null(s) at some frequencies, with severity depending on crossover slopes.

Again, this will be a critical look at a very high value DIY speaker, and is not intended to discourage people from building them, quite the opposite, it will let people know how to best implement them with aiming and acoustical treatments. I think technical characterization of a design is a good thing.

JSS
post #25 of 46
Thread Starter 
MK, Any luck with some measurements following maxmercy's instructions? I've got no.2 finished, and I'm looking for the best way to place them. Did you have yours with a toe-in, or not?
post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyguyOK View Post

MK, Any luck with some measurements following maxmercy's instructions? I've got no.2 finished, and I'm looking for the best way to place them. Did you have yours with a toe-in, or not?

Actually I measured them last night and will post a whole bunch of graphs here and on my thread. Mine have just high pass and low pass filters so they will be peaky in the response. I have them aiming at the LP(downward a little) and the left and right and toed in only about 10 degrees or so. I treated my room so that I wanted to hear the speakers and not the room but I still get some room interactions. I have always put in speakers without EQ and they always sound awesome! For example, M&K S-5000's, Triads, eD cinema 12's, JTR triple 8's, JBL's cinema, you name it. They have always sound excellent without any tweaking whatsoever and the DR's sound aweful without tweaking and I figured the reason was the crossover! All those speakers have crossovers so they are flat at 1 meter and when placed in my room they all have a similar response which is my room which sounds great! The DR's don't have a crossover and at 1 meter they are far from flat. Now if I was sitting in one sweet spot I would just EQ all the speakers to that one spot and call it a day however I have 7 seats and again all the seats sound really good with the other speakers with crossovers. So my thinking was to EQ the DR's at 1 meter and let the room do the same thing to them as the other speakers. I also EQ's the DR's at the seat to hear the difference and there was a difference. I can tell you to experiment and do whatever sounds best but in my room EQing them at 1 meter(each speaker was EQ'd to 1 meter) has a better sound to the room than eqing to that one spot at the LP, especially when you moved from seat to seat. Now what I did was run a sweep on each DR-200 and then let the REW EQ function set the filters for me with the DCX in place. I used 1/3 smoothing so I can see a line which without smoothing is it more like a seisometer! It is very simple, Here are the graphs. Keep in mind they are behind my screen as I wanted to EQ them how I will use them.

First here is the 1 meter response with no EQ(raw) on my left channel



Here it is EQ'd using DCX and REW(8 filters)



Here is the right channel raw at 1 meter



Right channel 1 meter EQ'd



Here is the center channel 1 meter RAW



Here is the center EQ'd 1 meter



I then used the center channel and measured what happened at the LP at 0 degrees.

Center at LP without changing EQ from 1 meter



As you can see my room does a pretty good job at keeping it tamed!

Now I measured to the far right seat about 30-40 degrees(estimated)



And finally the far left seat



You can see how the off axis response changes but overall not that bad from 14 feet away all using the center. So you can see what people are hearing from seat to seat and like I said, crystal clear and very dynamic! So I played Immortals and some music to compare this EQ to my MCAAC and I hate to say this but the Ada with the DCX sounds much better! I am also flatter at the LP than what MCAAC did and the mic was at the LP with MCAAC and I EQ'd with the DCX at 1 meter and still was flatter at the seats! The sound is just smoother and more audible. I once again can play at reference levels without any strain where the Elite was too loud at reference and hurt my ears so I turned it down anywhere from -5 to -10MV depending on the movie. With the Ada gear I set at 0 MV for any movie! Music was the biggest difference as it was more palpable like it was before! I am sorry guys but I will stick with used high end(ada at least) than brand new AVR's. The elite came the closest but I have not found one AVR so far that can play reference without sound too loud for some reason and you guys read it all the time and say how can you watch at reference, it is way too loud! Not on my Ada gear!
post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The DR's don't have a crossover

Yes, they do. They're not flat because they're not supposed to be. Rough response is the price paid for such high sensitivity from such a small and inexpensive cab. If you don't have a high quality EQ that's a problem, but they're pro-sound cabs, and in pro-sound high quality EQ is standard equipment.
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Yes, they do. They're not flat because they're not supposed to be. Rough response is the price paid for such high sensitivity from such a small and inexpensive cab. If you don't have a high quality EQ that's a problem, but they're pro-sound cabs, and in pro-sound high quality EQ is standard equipment.

I thought they had just LP and HP's? It really does not matter because from the get go I knew I needed EQ for them. I tell everyone interested they need EQ. I can tell you last night they sound better than ever after my EQing with the graphs posted! They are not just a bang for buck, they are giant killers! They just sound so clear and dynamic with more detail than anything else I have heard(I guess this is where the clarity comes from). I watched Immortals last night for the first time at reference and it was just incredible how they sound. Music is even a bigger difference! Other speakers might sound softer(triads piano was softer) than the DR's but if you don't mind that harder sound(example would be hitting the piano key harder than Triads) then these are it! Also they drop off pretty quick down low but as you can see at the LP I am down 10 dbs at 80hz but what I forgot to mention is that I have a 80hz THX crossover in place. BTW, what these do for mains the wedge 6's do for surrounds! Now I need more DCX's or something to EQ them at 1 meter! Even without EQ the surrounds sound good.
post #29 of 46
Bill,
BTW I am sorry if I have misrepresented your designs in any way. I will add that your DR's and wedges were built and designed for live or PA stuff where the room is much bigger. A smaller room could complicate the response with all the reflections. I have been known to try things not in the norm like putting massive JBL cinema speakers in my room. All I can say is that the DR's have excelled at HT than any other speaker I have tried regardless of any shortcomings. This is the first Time I used them crossed over at 80hz without their T-39 counterparts and I can say so far so good! I need to put in midbass movies like Transformers and The Dark Night because Immortals is a low bass movie. However, music has never sound better in my room!
post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I thought they had just LP and HP's?

That's what constitutes a crossover.
Quote:
BTW I am sorry if I have misrepresented your designs in any way.

I wouldn't say that you have, so no apology necessary. I'm pleased that they've worked so well for you.
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