How to get better sound? - Page 4

Never happened, except perhaps in your overheated imagination.

Proof - no proper quote is provided to support the claim even though the post being butchered is just a few posts back.

Besides Amir, judged by your behavior on this forum, proper bias controlled evaluations are never required as long as your name is Amir.


Often happens when you argue with yourself, Amir.

Friendly advice - stop making stuff up and then picking a fight with it.

One other thing to consider is that Harmon's listening room is probably a pretty fair-sounding room in its own right.

And that compares to the large variations in room configuration that we see around here, how? ;-)

I was posting to a guy this morning, and if I got his comments right, his listening room had a bare tile floor, drywall ceilings and walls, and thin drapes on the numerous, asymmetrically-placed windows.

I suspect that a PS/3 driving a good AVR via HDMI actually gives a pretty good account of itself, sonically. Its internal converters are probably about the same standard as a contemporaneous PC, which has been pretty good for a number of years.

When you're dealing with certain people, you can live pretty well eating their bait, especially if you also get to eat their lunch. ;-)

Yes , which is why the 'tinny' sound is likely either disparate DSP/output setting choices between the rigs, or he's playing CDs on one and low bitrate mp3s on the other. Or, of course, 'placebo'. In any case, not a room treatment issue.

Fun for you, maybe, but not necessarily for us. Stopping would raise the S/N so vastly that no DBT would be required to detect the change.

Well put. Personally, however, I can't be bothered to protect my right to be right, allways, right now, because my eyes are fixed on tossed burning chainsaws.

AJ...

There is perceptual data gathered through DBT's that provide insight into how people perceive sound influenced by acoustical architectural features and how their preferences correlate with measurements. There are good measurement tools that allow one to treat a room to achieve "desired" characteristics based on the data gathered from the above. Thus, many advocate such treatments based on the perceptual data and availability of measuring tools without suggesting they DBT their room before and after to ensure it works as planned. "The proof is in the listening."

There is perceptual data gathered through DBT's that provide insight into how people perceive sound influenced by speaker design features and how their preferences correlate with measurements. There are good measurement tools that allow one to design a speaker to achieve "desired" characteristics based on the data gathered from the above. Thus, you personally design speakers based on the perceptual data and availability of measuring tools without advocating the need for DBT of your specific speaker to ensure it works as planned. "The proof is in the listening."

Please, I understand this is your marketing angle and I understand why you do it, but please stop, especially in combination with accusing others of making marketing driven statements that are no more egregious than yours.

And yes, I've read Toole. I understand what he meant. He has offered clarification which has previously been posted here on AVS. You may use him as a hammer to bludgeon others, but this too is merely your marketing strategy.

And no, I'm not about to do your homework for you and post links to dozens of references backing up my observations. You know that isn't my style... I'm simply too lazy to be bothered with the charade of educating you when knowledge isn't your problem, intent is.

If you get the opportunity, I suggest hearing him in person .


He says more than that. This is from his CEDIA course on "Room Accoustics Demystified: "A well-furnished lving space (carpet, sofa, chairs, drapes, bookcases and cabinets) can be an excellent listening environment." He spends quite a bit of time emphasizing this.

His main use of room acoustics if for dedicated rooms/listening spaces which by definition are devoid of typical things he mentions there.


That's right although most of his worry is not "over-applying" but using too thin of material which includes just about most treatment people slap on the walls.

You can complain about AJ but he has read Floyd's work. You are not going to invalidate what AJ says using the same source.

That's great. We are in agreement and can move on. Now, where are the double blind tests that show efficacy of products you and Ethan are advocating?

Do you agree or not that room is the greatest source of distortion?

Maybe because your criticisms of me are personal attacks? Me, I laugh about this stuff all the time, in particular I laugh at those who don't get it due to ignorance and arrogance. And I'll be laughing all the way to the bank soon. My book is already practically a best seller, based only on pre-sales, and it's still a month away from being released.

--Ethan

I took that as a joke. That post had a grinning smiley in the heading.

--Ethan

Like Toole's statement that room reflections are in fact good for ya´. AJ adopt that thinking by going for a full dipole design .

But, not for his "customers" (sold anything yet -it sounded awfully cheap the figures you dropped to Stereophile yeah?!?), but nah, they won't get the only benefit of a dipole in a tiled room -a bit less room reflections (in the side walls)- they'll get the "room treatment dosn't matter gospel" and a KEF coax with a JBL woofer. Ouch!

If you read the first few posts to this thread, you'll see that Josh didn't mention making one source sound as good as another until a few posts after my suggestion that he consider his room's acoustics.

Now, if either of you guys are intellectually honest, you'll acknowledge that what I just wrote is correct and take back what you said in your quotes above.

--Ethan

My answer to you has not changed from this: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21809751

That's true.


I don't follow Ethan. If I had suggested he change his power cord, would you not ask me to provide proof that it would make a difference? How is your suggestion of using acoustic products any different?

No straight answer, just the efforts to wreck another thread with motivation stimulated by the desire to get back to arny. so forgive me if i keep repeating this simple question in response to your 5 page posts until we all get a straight answer .

No matter how you polish it, how many charts you include, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it is a ....

I went to one of his CEDIA courses and that is pretty much dead on.

That didn't at all answer his question.

It wasn't meant to. I was serious about him wasting someone else's time when he can't be bothered to read things.

If you have the same question as him, you can ask and I will answer.

No need; I know what you believe. What you will say I can't predict and won't be bothered with.

Nah, Idon't buy it AJ would never ever go for that kind of cheap shot. Are you insane!?!

This is a joke, yes? Do I really have to prove to you how acoustic treatment improves the sound reaching someone's ears in a room? Tell me you're kidding. Please.

In the mean time, Response and Ringing Before Bass Traps:



Response and Ringing After Adding Bass Traps:



Any questions? I have dozens more, and other graph types including comb filtering, RT60, raw response, and individual reflection strength.

--Ethan

In the words of Oracle in the movie Matrix, "what is really going to cook your noodle is that" I knew that is what you would say.

You are feeding the troll, that's the exact response response he wants, so he can nitpick something in your response and start going on and on. Question is simple: Does he agree room creates more distortion than a DAC or not? But he won't answer.

At least I'm consistent. Why would I word for word repeat a question asked just a few posts ago?

I'm not trolling, it's an honest question.
Can a room create distortion, which I think of as a non-linear representation of a given input signal?

I wasn't talking about you.

Sorry, I didn't know it was a private thread.