Upgrade from the 3D Bloggie: the Panasonic 3D1 - Page 5

My 3rd grader's science project - the solar system - made of a shoebox, foam balls, toothpicks, paper, threads, and water paint.



Edited by Darkside - 6/11/12 at 12:22am

Greetings from the UK.,

Have owned this camera for a week now and love it to bits.
Was looking at getting a Fuji W3 so I could take 3D still and Vid on my forthcoming holidays to Canada until I saw the comparison slide shows with the 3D1 on Youtube
Before I knew it I found myself spending twice as much than I had originally intended on this little beauty but boy was it worth it
The quality of video is excellent and the 3D MPO files really pop out the screen of my LG 980T but then I guess I'm not telling you guys anything you don't already know?
Anyway the reason for me being here is this.....
I'm searching for the best (and preferably cheapest) way to create a 3D slide show that will also allow me to burn the finished item onto DVD/Bluray or upload directly to Youtube.
Not interested in anaglyph as find the results when viewing through those coloured glasses less than impressive and slightly pointless.
A simple drag and drop for AVCHD and MPO files with the ability to add my own music are my main requirements as I'm more a keen amateur rather than pro photographer
so before anyone says 'Sony Vegas' I fear that maybe too complicated for my needs.
I've tried various free trials all with varying degrees of disappointment resulting in rapid uninstalling and continuation of my quest.
The only program I've managed to have any success with is Magix Movie Edit Pro but it seems way too advanced for my needs and seems to take an age to burn a completed slide show,
that is why I feel that Sony Vegas might be in the same mould specially taking the hefty price into account.
The great 'WWW' is a wonderful thing but this is probably the first time I've failed to find what I'm looking for and so my latest search brought me to here.
Sorry if I'm in the wrong thread but information on this new tech is scarce and you guys seem pretty knowledgeable.
Thanks in advance for any pointers you maybe able to throw my way

Dave

Thanks for getting back so quickly Mark.
I'd heard Sony Vegas was quite expensive and so took that as gospel but under $50 sounds a good deal so I guess it's another free trial here I come time?
I really love this camera though and enjoying learning all the do's and don'ts to get the best 3D results, hopefully now I can create and upload my best Pics
using Sony Vegas.

Having lugged a TD10 brick around with a W3 in my pocket trying to take both videos and stills, having read through this thread three times, having watched the 3D1 videos and mouthing, "wow," over excellent stabilization, I've made up my mind to get the 3D1. While it isn't perfect, it will free up so much wasted movement, keep my pockets from sagging, keep my wife happy that she doesn't have to hold the TD10, and coordinate nicely with my Panny Blu-Ray.

Mark- Have a question for you on converting SBS from the 3D1 to 2D. How do you do it? I have a process I use in Vegas but felt there may be a better way and since you have been shooting quite a bit with the 3D1 maybe you have a way that is easier.

I use crop tool and pull the left side out to full frame width by unchecking the constrain aspect ratio. Hope you have a simpler way.

I haven't used a side by side clip in Vegas for a while, but I think the process is pretty simple. Going from memory, I recall that you right click on the clip and tell Vegas it's a 3D side by side clip (not sure of the exact item to set in the drop down menu). The project has to be set up as 3D, of course. Vegas then converts it into its normal aspect and you can edit with the left eye only visible. After that, you can export it as 2D or 3D. That'll be easier than manually adjusting the aspect ratio, and it won't slow down the editing. Motion is extremely smooth for SbS editing.

Either you set the project to a 2D project. Or you render only one of the streams.

I don't think either of you guys have done SBS half source video.

First of all SBS half is no different than a single stream HD video 1080 x 1920 with two squeezed images side by side.

If you set the project properties to a 2D with stereo off or left only, you will end up with the 2D HD clip that has two images squeezed into a single HD frame.

Joe- right clicking on the clip to set the input format is what you do in PD10, There is no process like that in Vegas. When you put a SBS Half video on the timeline in PD10 you will get the same squeezed left and right on a standard HD frame, but if you right click and select "Input format" in PD10, it switches the video to a single image only, I believe the left one. Then you have to render to 2D and you'll get 2D.

It seems like Vegas should have a simple process like PD10 but so far all I can see is manually using the pan crop tool and cropping the half video with maintain aspect ratio set to no and stretch to fill frame set to Yes. You can do the same thing with Top Bottom Half but just crop vertically.

Here is a screen capture showing how I have been doing this. Seems awkward but it works.

Converting a side by side half to 2D is simple in Vegas.
Just right click the video on the timeline and select Properties then the Media tab and go down to the bottom of the context menu to Stereoscopic 3D mode and select side by side half.
Make sure your main project property is Stereoscopic 3D left or right only and render.
I have done this countless times.

Gotcha! Thanks Frank. I wasn't looking in that sub menu. ( Media Tab )

Sure, it's fine when Frank tells you it can be done, but I don't get no respect.

I've only edited SbS a handful of times, in version 10. I almost always shoot in MVC mode. But I sure wish MVC was as creamy smooth as SbS stereo editing in Vegas. If I wanted to do something fast, and image quality wasn't critical, I'd shoot SbS. The only thing I didn't like was that there didn't seem to be any way to set all the SbS clips to stereo at once. I had to go in and set each one manually, which is a bit tedious.

You are right - to set the project to 2D will deliver the footage as side-by-side.

But to render it to one stream - L or R - will deliver the full size in 2D as you have asked.

I would not do it on the timeline and change the media properties - for a practical reason: if a project has 500 events you would have to do that 500 times. To change it in the render dialog is much easier.

True, but I can't make heads or tails of SbS video playing normally in the timeline. It's too distorted. If you want to edit the video and not just convert it (even if the final output is going to be in 2D), you need to set up the project as 3D, then go in and manually tell Vegas to treat each clip as stereo. That way, you see the video normally on the timeline, edit as you see fit (without a hit to editing performance, even on my everyday computer) and render the final output as a 2D video as you suggest. The right side (or left, if you prefer) will be ignored and you'll end up with a normal aspect ratio 2D video file. That's what I think Don wants to do.

When I got my JVC back from repair (which actually didn't need repairing ), it had been reset to SbS mode. I accidentally shot about an hour's worth of clips before I realized it. I plan to use a few of those in a project with regular MVC clips. It's easy in Vegas to mix and match the two using the method Frank outlines above. Of course, I have to convert my JVC MVC clips first, because Vegas doesn't support them natively. But they end up as full HD 3D clips, which then will be mixed with the SbS clips.

Joe, I think we are talking about the last rendering step, so my undstanding is that the import, editing, 3D horizontal adjustment and so on has be done?

If that is true it is very fast to render the footage from the timeline to 2D - simply by setting the render settings in the render templates to L or R only.

I think Don wasn't aware that we could put these Panasonic SbS clips into the Vegas timeline and easily convert the project to 2D (without having to manually scale the left frame to full size for each clip). If I'm mistaken, please correct me, Don. If that's the case, though, I think the procedure that Frank outlined is the quickest and easiest way to do it. Once it's done, you can export in any 2D or 3D format you want, or burn a 2D or 3D disc.

I see.

Frank has learned that with me he has to attach a leash and lead me through it. You were close but that only counts in hand grenades.

Yes, Franks ( and your ) method is much easier than me using the pan and crop to convert to 2D. But, I can use a copy and paste event attributes to a bunch of selected clips at the same time. So in Wolfgang's example, my method would be much faster for 500 clips.

Now that's a great thought.

Hey Don, I was actually using your method to extract the 2D from sbs video years ago back when Vegas didn't have any stereoscopic functionality.

Which? Putting me on a leash or using copy and paste event attributes? My wife would agree with the leash thought, especially when I was shooting at the edge of the cliff at Bryce canyon.

Got my 3D1 yesterday. Charged the battery, plugged in a 32gb card and off I went through the house and outside. My impressions are mixed at best, having a TD10 and W3. To review the pics, I used my Optoma HD3300 3D projector, 142" 16:9 screen, and Panny blu-ray player with SD card input.

The good:
Easy to use out of the box.
Liked the EV setting option.
Touch screen easier to see in the sun than either the TD10 or W3.
Easy to proof the pics through the Panny blu-ray--although, separate short videos appear to show up as one long video.
Still 3D photos on par with W3--not better or worse. Inside pics are better lighted. Outside pics have blownout highlights and need EV turned down, also boosts the color.
3D perception is better than I expected and little better than the TD10.
About the size of a deck of cards-add an inch to the length. Twice as thick as an iphone, but very portable/pocketable--much more than the W3.

The not-so-good:
Video stabilization is lacking. About on par with the W3, but not as close to the TD10 as I would like--this was a big disappointment for me.
Video about as good as W3 with blown highlights, but not as good as the TD10--I guess I will keep it after all.
Halos around objects in video and lack of resolution made the video seem amateurish to me versus the TD10--especially noticeable on the big screen.
Contrast range is very tight and annoying when taking shots inside with light coming in the window, and outside in areas with lots of light and dark objects. Lowering the EV does help, but makes the images darker, and your projector better be a bright one. The HD3300 did a good job holding up the images.
The slight change from 25mm for stills and 30mm for video is obvious, and I felt the need to keep moving backward to get more in the window.
Lack of zoom during filming is very annoying.

These are my quick findings. All-in-all I was a little disappointed, especially with the video if you are going to watch it on the big screen. On youtube on your PC, it looks fine, but when watched on the 142" screen, you see all of the motion artifacts that make it hard to watch over the TD10.

More to come...

Nice video, Mark. One thing you haven't pointed out yet is that the more you shoot, with one camera, the better you get, with that camera. Your work with the 3D1 is superb and I attribute that to the fact that you do lots of shooting with the 3D1. You know how to squeeze the quality because of your experience.

Thanks for the encouragement Mark. Maybe I'm just asking too much from the stabilization, and yes I was walking with the 3D1, which the TD10 handles better in my opinion. I need to check out the settings a little more and find the ones that make sense under most conditions. I will be taking the camera to the Titanic exhibit at the Henry Ford Museum on Sunday, so I will share my pics--cross my fingers as I'm leaving my other cameras at home...that's a first...but sometimes that's what it takes to really appreciate a new camera. And, oh by the way, my 3D1 gets very hot when it's operating for more than 10 minutes or so--is that normal?

Have to agree with Mark that the 3D video capabilities of the Panasonic stands head and shoulders above the Fuji W3 from the comparison videos I've seen on YouTube.
The full HD 1080p of the DMC-3D1 produces a much cleaner and sharper image against the 720p of the W3 and was the deciding factor for me when choosing which to go for.
I find the anti-shake function (which the W3 doesn't have) a useful and effective addition to the DMC's armoury as well although like Mark said if you want to walk and shoot video at the same time a more substantial stabalizer is required but for simple panning it works fine.
The fantastic colour reproduction of the DMC-3D1 is another plus for me and I find that for a compact it compares admirably with my mid-range DSLR.
It's still early days for me having only owned the DMC-3D1 for a few weeks but on the whole I'm loving this camera and really enjoying learning the different techniques required to take successful 3D shots. The images when viewed back on my 55" LED Tv are crystal clear and my interest in photography has been reignited thanks to this little beauty.
Long may it continue.

Oh and on a side note... You guys must be psychic cause having now purchased Sony Vagas pro 11 and struggling with adding 3D video to my slideshow without the video clips quadrupling up on playback instead of side by side, I was just about to search for a solution, clicked on here first and you had answered my question before I'd even asked it lol
Now if you could just give me tomorrow nights winning lottery numbers that would be great :0)