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Trying to serve two gods - 2 channel and HT

post #1 of 11
3/25/12 at 8:42pm
Thread Starter 
There was a thread on here about 5 yrs ago about this. Would love to get this started again.

My setup - room is 17.5' W x 21.5 D with false screen wall and stage. Framed for 120" 2.35 screen, non-AT. Design by Dennis Erskine.

Equipment

B&W 802D (FLR, FLL)
B&W HTM2D (C)
B&W DS8S (LS, RS, RLS, RRS)
Seaton Submersive HP (not purchased yet)
McIntosh MC402
Outlaw 770
Integra DHC 80.3

I'm about 75% 2 channel and 25% theater. Here's my plan. Place the 802D's lateral to the screen and cover the large areas seen in the picture with GOM. There will be a frame built and magnets placed so the covers are removable for access behind the screen.

Will this make the imaging for 2 channel impossible with the FL and FR being 10 feet apart? Listening position will be 13 feet back.

My other problem right now is the length of run for wire. Length to FL is ~40 feet, FR is ~35 feet. I've thought about moving the amplifier to behind the screen, but it just isn't feasible. So I've looked into an above average cable $5-10/foot for these runs to the FL, FR and C. I have 12AWG from Parts Express run for now. I've decided I'm going to scrap that for Canare 4S11, so that I can bi-wire. Anyone with any better suggestions for a speaker cable for this length in that price range?
LL
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post #2 of 11
3/25/12 at 10:39pm
Fronts could even be a bit wider depending on how close the sidewalls get.

As for better speaker wire, the 12 gage monoptice is about perfect. If you want a little better get 10 gage. No need for canare. No need to biwire.
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post #3 of 11
3/25/12 at 10:50pm
No to the biwire, no to the overpriced jewelry, 12AWG is more than good enough for 40ft - your amplifier is drawing power from the wall via 10 or 12 AWG; think about that for a minute (and it's not "close" to the source of that). The 802's are what? 8 or 6 ohms? 12 AWG is already overkill. What you have works positively fine. The resistance put in by those leads is well under what Russell has calculated to even get you a minor FR deviation; it's very low. Done and done.

Should be no issue with "imaging" for 2-channel either.

So basically, the easier answer: "^^^^ +1"
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post #4 of 11
3/26/12 at 8:21am
The speaker layout should be fine. The rule of thumb with most speakers is that the center-to-center distance between speakers should be less than the distance to the listener.

I would just add a second run of the same 12 gauge wire to the existing run for the bi-wiring. I do not usually recommend bi-wiring, but for runs over 20 feet it is a very good idea. With a run that long getting the relatively large LF current separated from the HF current can be an audible improvement with many speakers. Two runs of #12 will do a very good job. The single run you have now is marginal from my experience.

Soldered gold-plated Audioquest spade lugs are highly recommended for the terminations at both ends, with red and black heat-shrink tubing for insulation of bare areas. (RAM Electronics; $3/pair).






Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerfann View Post

There was a thread on here about 5 yrs ago about this. Would love to get this started again.

My setup - room is 17.5' W x 21.5 D with false screen wall and stage. Framed for 120" 2.35 screen, non-AT. Design by Dennis Erskine.

Equipment

B&W 802D (FLR, FLL)
B&W HTM2D (C)
B&W DS8S (LS, RS, RLS, RRS)
Seaton Submersive HP (not purchased yet)
McIntosh MC402
Outlaw 770
Integra DHC 80.3

I'm about 75% 2 channel and 25% theater. Here's my plan. Place the 802D's lateral to the screen and cover the large areas seen in the picture with GOM. There will be a frame built and magnets placed so the covers are removable for access behind the screen.

Will this make the imaging for 2 channel impossible with the FL and FR being 10 feet apart? Listening position will be 13 feet back.

My other problem right now is the length of run for wire. Length to FL is ~40 feet, FR is ~35 feet. I've thought about moving the amplifier to behind the screen, but it just isn't feasible. So I've looked into an above average cable $5-10/foot for these runs to the FL, FR and C. I have 12AWG from Parts Express run for now. I've decided I'm going to scrap that for Canare 4S11, so that I can bi-wire. Anyone with any better suggestions for a speaker cable for this length in that price range?
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post #5 of 11
3/26/12 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The rule of thumb with most speakers is that the center-to-center distance between speakers should be less than the distance to the listener.

Equivalent usually works well.

Quote:
I do not usually recommend bi-wiring, but for runs over 20 feet it is a very good idea.

Unnecessary.
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post #6 of 11
3/26/12 at 7:28pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm still buying into the Kool-Aid about the Canare and bi-wire. I'm afraid I'll always wonder. Ram does let you return within 30 days, unconditionally. Therefore, I could listen to A/B with my 12 AWG Dayton Audio vs the Canare and see if I can tell the difference. It's about $600 for 3 sets of 40 ft Canare 4S11 with WBT bananas terminated in a bi-wire configuration. In the words of my mama..."that ain't cheap!"

John
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post #7 of 11
3/26/12 at 7:47pm
^^^

and in the words of pt barnum, "there's a sucker born every minute"...

you got some good advice, you would be wise to heed it... bi-wiring is completely useless, and i won't even start on the wbt bananas...

put that 600 bucks towards your as yet unpurchased subm hp... or if you already have the cash set aside for that, put the 600 away towards a second one...
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post #8 of 11
3/27/12 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerfann View Post

Therefore, I could listen to A/B with my 12 AWG Dayton Audio vs the Canare and see if I can tell the difference.

Unfortunately, I can guarantee that the way you conduct your comparison will absolutely, without question, remove any chance of you establishing unambiguously whether A sounds different (let alone better or worse) than B.

This has been documented with decades of research. Disregard it at your discretion - you have been presented the truth, do with it what you wish.
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post #9 of 11
3/28/12 at 3:26am
Gotta agree again. Just don't waste the time on it - it's not going to help or change anything, no matter how enticing the brochure makes it sound.
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post #10 of 11
3/28/12 at 4:27pm
We have similar listening habbits and electronics. I have an 80.2 and an mc252. My mains are Carver alIII's which I have bi-amped simply because the ribbon section of my mains are extremly inefficient. I use a B&K amp to drive the woofers on the Carvers. Your 80.3 has Audyssey XT32 on board as does my 80.2. IMO, it did an excellent job of creating a very good stereo soundstage in my room. I'm sure it will do the same for you.
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post #11 of 11
3/29/12 at 6:54am
If that room is acoustically treated for multichannel playback, then use DPLIIx for music playback.

Instead of Canare and bi-wire kool-aid, I'd put that money into a second sub also.
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