Panasonic 65 inch VT50 release date and price? - Page 8

Originally Posted by DrRx


How about the Sony XBR 65HX929 local dimming LED backlit?

Originally Posted by CaTaSTrOphiK

=fanboy of a natural great looking picture which has steered me to panny. Previously owned a samsung flagship plasma as well which also helped steer me to panny since it died in just a bit over two years. And the elite well is just overpriced for me.

Originally Posted by CaTaSTrOphiK

You could give it a shot you could view them in a store to see if blooming is something that really bothers you otherwise I say yes give it a shot.

Originally Posted by natetheskate

As for the comparison between the VT50 and the UN60ES8000 I was actually quite shocked by the results. I got my powered HDMi splitter and hooked them up side by side and played a few blu rays. The Samsung looks crisper and has way darker blacks. The stationary panel with no power to it is even darker on the Samsung.

Originally Posted by beezar

You're saying a Samsung LED has darker blacks than the plasma VT50. Sounds like there is something wrong with your setup; you might want to check it out just to be sure.

Originally Posted by Tempest261

Local dimming on an LED set can literally create "0.0000" luminance. The problem is that it often "clips" pretty hard to achieve this. In other words, the LEDs go off- in order to show even the slightest bit of darkness detail, they have to turn on quite a bit, so they are often clipped at a somewhat light value of black. It's in these situations where the plasma will destroy any LED. Otherwise, the LED-LCD will always win in the "pure-black" battle.

In last year's VE FP shootout, they demonstrated this very well.

Originally Posted by beezar

You're saying a Samsung LED has darker blacks than the plasma VT50. Sounds like there is something wrong with your setup; you might want to check it out just to be sure.

Originally Posted by Tempest261

Local dimming on an LED set can literally create "0.0000" luminance. The problem is that it often "clips" pretty hard to achieve this. In other words, the LEDs go off- in order to show even the slightest bit of darkness detail, they have to turn on quite a bit, so they are often clipped at a somewhat light value of black. It's in these situations where the plasma will destroy any LED. Otherwise, the LED-LCD will always win in the "pure-black" battle.

In last year's VE FP shootout, they demonstrated this very well.

Originally Posted by mnc

I completely agree! I will gladly trade a slightly lighter black with MUCH better shadow detail for the slightly darker black with lack of shadow detail. The VE shootout video clearly shows the difference! I suggest you check it out.

Originally Posted by natetheskate

If it was a slight difference I would agree also. Here is scene from Alice in Wonderland on the ES800 and the VT50:

Originally Posted by natetheskate


If it was a slight difference I would agree also. Here is scene from Alice in Wonderland on the ES800 and the VT50:

Originally Posted by natetheskate

If it was a slight difference I would agree also. Here is scene from Alice in Wonderland on the ES800 and the VT50:

Originally Posted by donnymac51

what picture mode was each display in? What gamma setting was used for each? Were they adjusted with a calibration disc or oob? Is that a window to the left of the panasonic? Too many questions to be answered before you can use this picture as an accurate comparison.

Originally Posted by natetheskate

If it was a slight difference I would agree also. Here is scene from Alice in Wonderland on the ES800 and the VT50:

Originally Posted by natetheskate

Its beyond me that you can't purchase a 65" LED TV that doesn't have lighting caveats like flashlighting or blooming for under 4 grand.

Originally Posted by natetheskate

Thats what I thought initially until I went to best buy where they had another 65VT50 on display. The panel looked the same as mine. Even my wife noticed that the VT50 looks almost grey compared to the LED models in the store. With both the Samsung LED and the VT50 powered off, looking at the 2 screens, the Panasonic panel looks quite a bit lighter than the Samsung panel with no power. Even the 64" E8000 plasma at BB was darker. If any of you have the ability to put it side by side with other TV's please check it out and let me know what you think. I really wish it was a defect because now I don't know what to purchase

Originally Posted by mancstheking


please please please , sort the settings out on the panny , and i can see that the panny has a real bright reflection upon the screen , wheres the samsung has none.
I've seen the gt panny in store and looked nothing near as washed out as that. my god man what brightness do you have it on!
bring on the shootout...

Originally Posted by natetheskate

If it was a slight difference I would agree also. Here is scene from Alice in Wonderland on the ES800 and the VT50:

Originally Posted by Kris Deering


He's already said he used Vivid for the Panny. Without them both being calibrated correctly and to the same levels (light output/gamma) this is about as useless as it comes for comparison. That's without even saying anythign about the major amount of light washing out the image on the Panasonic from the window right next to it.

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

He's already said he used Vivid for the Panny. Without them both being calibrated correctly and to the same levels (light output/gamma) this is about as useless as it comes for comparison. That's without even saying anythign about the major amount of light washing out the image on the Panasonic from the window right next to it.

Originally Posted by natetheskate

I don't want to spend $5500... My max budget is 4k. Its beyond me that you can't purchase a 65" LED TV that doesn't have lighting caveats like flashlighting or blooming for under 4 grand. What do you think of the LG 9600? Word is it will be out in a 60" soon which although it would be a downgrade in size shouldn't have any lighting issues as its a full array LED. I'm also considering spending a little more than my max and getting the Sharp 60" Elite, I can't swing the price tag on the 70! Its just so thick though and I think it will look dumb wall mounted. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by rogo

And yet you can't. No such thing exists.




This comparison is entirely invalid on many dimensions.

First of all, you do not watch the TV with the power off so let's not worry about how the TV looks with the power off. It does not many an iota of difference.

Second of all, you do not watch the TV with another TV sitting next to it. So let's disregard any comparisons that are based on "anchoring", which yields false results. I suggests you Google "optical illusions" and see how easily the eye and brain are fooled by incredible simple things. Here's a fantastic place to start:

http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/O...rception2.html

When you can tell me you don't think those squares are the same color (they are), you can tell me you are immune to "anchoring". Until then, stop watching two TVs at the same time and judging them -- it's pointless.

The VT50 is being measured at .002 ft/L MLL and 46 ft/L calibrated brightness. While we can quibble about whether or not a Sharp Elite or some TV that hasn't been for sale for years can reach a lower minimum luminance, the notion that someone should want a higher maximum brightness is getting ridiculous. Your TV viewing should not require you to grab sunglasses.

About the only thing I see of interest in the comparison photo is that sun is hitting the Panasonic. It isn't hitting the Samsung because the window is directly behind the Samsung. Now, this should be obvious, but since it isn't: Gigantic bright thing behind TV that is blocked by TV and therefore not incident to TV will make TV seem very contrasty. I state that neither as a positive of the Samsung nor as an indictment of it. It's just a fact.

It's also a fact that LCDs will do better on a sunny day than plasmas typically. But my goodness, that photo shows the plasma being tortured so who really knows. "Let's put it next to a window with midday sun shining through and see how it does!". I wonder where the other windows in that room are. If I were betting, I'd guess there's another one to the right of the Panasonic, maybe on a side wall?

Originally Posted by natetheskate

obviously you're very knowledgable and calibrating is something you do for either a living or a serious hobby. That being said its also obvious that I'm not as knowledgable and don't have calibration equipment. The Panasonic is on Vivid with stock values and the Samsung in on Dynamic with stock values. Yes there is a lot of light in that picture as it was taken in the day, I realize LCD's are always going to handle light better, I was simply comparing the darkest dark on both and how different they are. While I will never be watching TV with another TV next to my main I still want the darkest blacks possible and with the Panasonic I don't get them (this was clear as soon as I got the set). Without calibrating I tried every mode and all of them look washed out to me. Out of the box it was so dim I thought something was wrong with it immediately on its stock settings.

I originally thought maybe its defective but after going to best buy and looking at the VT50 they have on display next to competitors I felt the same way.

If you'd like I'm more than happy to take some night shots where you will still see the vast difference in the darks. If you feel its the settings on the Panasonic please point me to some settings you trust and I will apply them and take a few more pictures. At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference and I'm disappointed with the VT50 therefore its going back...

Originally Posted by Tempest261

Nate,

At the very least, calibrate the VT50 for brightness and contrast before you send it back. You do not need any equipment to do this. You can simply burn the AVS HD 709 patterns disc onto a DVD-R and put it in your blu-ray player. There are two animated patterns that have directions on them for how to adjust brightness and contrast. They are very intuitive and do not require any real education on calibration to adjust.

Please, try this before returning a perfectly good flagship television. Simply switching the user modes isn't going to cut it. Yes, it's true- many users on these forums and reviews have confirmed that the out-of-the-box experience on a lot of these Panny 2012 sets is not all that great. That's a screw-up on Panasonic's part, IMO, especially when Samsung seems to have their out-of-the-box experience down to a science. That said, all reports I've read have pointed to the VT50 as the best 2012 plasma on the market, after you get a basic calibration done. Again, you don't need any equipment (and can't even benefit from using any) to do basic contrast, brightness, color, and tint.