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First VT50 review

post #1 of 284
3/26/12 at 5:18pm
Thread Starter 
AVforums have posted the first review i've seen of the panasonic vt50, here it is. The black level was too low to accurately test with their equipment on a full black screen, but with ANSI it measured 0.0095 cd/m2

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pana...82/Review.html
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post #2 of 284
3/26/12 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

AVforums have posted the first review i've seen of the panasonic vt50, here it is. The black level was too low to accurately test with their equipment on a full black screen, but with ANSI it measured 0.0095 cd/m2

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pana...82/Review.html

Av penthouse letters:
The black is so deep, in fact, we couldn't get anything like an accurate reading with a full black pattern on screen but we did manage to measure it at 0.0095 cd/m2 on an ANSI checkerboard
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post #3 of 284
3/26/12 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Av penthouse letters:
The black is so deep, in fact, we couldn't get anything like an accurate reading with a full black pattern on screen but we did manage to measure it at 0.0095 cd/m2 on an ANSI checkerboard

Does this mean they are even better than Kuro Blacks?
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post #4 of 284
3/26/12 at 5:58pm
that measurement sounds way high
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post #5 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MASKOAA View Post

that measurement sounds way high

I mean I guess compared to a 500m Kuro, but i'll take .0095 cd/m2 ANSI any day of the week
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post #6 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

I mean I guess compared to a 500m Kuro, but i'll take .0095 cd/m2 ANSI any day of the week

I still say next year is the year the Panasonic VT series will overcome the Kuro as the best tv ever.
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post #7 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MASKOAA View Post

that measurement sounds way high

That's not high at all... I think you're mistaking cdm2 (Candelas per Square Meter) with foot lamberts. 0.0095 cdm2 is 0.00277fL, which is a bit lower than what they measured the ST50 (ANSI 0.011 cdm2 / 0.0032fL). It's not 9G kuro blacks, but it's pretty damn good. Expect the 60+ models to be even lower. This is about what I expected from the VT50. The ST50 is much lower than I was expecting, making it an incredible value.
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post #8 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:33pm
O man, this is sweet news. I may replace my 50 inch Kuros for bigger sizes and this may do it.
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post #9 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

That's not high at all... I think you're mistaking cdm2 (Candelas per Square Meter) with foot lamberts. 0.0095 cdm2 is 0.00277fL, which is a bit lower than what they measured for the ST50 (ANSI 0.011 cdm2 / 0.0032fL). Expect the 60+ models to be even lower. This is about what I expected from the VT50. The ST50 is much lower than I was expecting, making it an incredible value.

How is that reference blacks? Kuro is 0.001 and 0.0004. And isn't 277 higher than 32?

I never truly understood how these ftl numbers work.
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post #10 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

How is that reference blacks? Kuro is 0.001 and 0.0004. And isn't 277 higher than 32?

I never truly understood how these ftl numbers work.

it's .00277 to .0032, the former just has extra precision, comparing apples to apples it's 27 to 32
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post #11 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

How is that reference blacks? Kuro is 0.001 and 0.0004. And isn't 277 higher than 32?

I never truly understood how these ftl numbers work.

Why does it have to match a 9G Kuro to be "reference"? Anyone expecting the VT50 to match the 9G Kuro was setting their expectations too high. The VT50's mll was too low for their meter to read, so it must be extremely dark, and the ANSI black measurement is VERY good.

edit: For reference, to convert cdm2 to ftL, divide cdm2 by 3.426, or multiply ftL by 3.426 to get cdm2.
And as karl said, it's 27 vs 32. Rounded up, it's 0.0028 vs 0.0032.
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post #12 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Why does it have to match a 9G Kuro to be "reference"? Anyone expecting the VT50 to match the 9G Kuro was setting their expectations too high. The VT50's mll was too low for their meter to read, so it must be extremely dark, and the ANSI black measurement is VERY good.

agreed
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post #13 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:45pm
I want to save my pennies for it but the false contouring makes me think I should just settle with an st50. Sounds like a great panel.
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post #14 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Why does it have to match a 9G Kuro to be "reference"? Anyone expecting the VT50 to match the 9G Kuro was setting their expectations too high. The VT50's mll was too low for their meter to read, so it must be extremely dark, and the ANSI black measurement is VERY good.

The correct comparison would seem to be VT50 vs. VT30, and it seems that the VT50 is a worthy upgrade at this point.
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post #15 of 284
3/26/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

it's .00277 to .0032, the former just has extra precision, comparing apples to apples it's 27 to 32

Oh i see. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Why does it have to match a 9G Kuro to be "reference"? Anyone expecting the VT50 to match the 9G Kuro was setting their expectations too high. The VT50's mll was too low for their meter to read, so it must be extremely dark, and the ANSI black measurement is VERY good.

Well if the kuro has reference blacks how is anything higher.....reference?

I must be the only fool, but i was expecting the VT50 to be as dark as the 9Gs. 70" too.
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post #16 of 284
3/26/12 at 7:10pm
The 9G Kuro isn't used as the benchmark for reference blacks, it just has reference blacks, too. You'll have to ask AVForums what measurement is considered "reference".

Considering the small steps Panasonic has made in past years, you shouldn't have expected them to match the 9G Kuro in a single year. Personally, I feel Panasonic has done a great job up and down the lineup this year, in terms of both performance and aesthetics... the 2012 line are very solid TVs.
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post #17 of 284
3/26/12 at 7:53pm
Just keep in mind that the model reviewed was a 50". It might not give an accurate account of what to expect with a North American 55 or 65".
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post #18 of 284
3/26/12 at 7:59pm
Thread Starter 
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Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Just keep in mind that the model reviewed was a 50". It might not give an accurate account of what to expect with a North American 55 or 65".

That's right, hopefully the black levels will be even be lower for the bigger North American versions .

p.s. I see you live in New Zealand, consider me ridiculously jealous. Can't wait to vacation there sometime in the near future.
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post #19 of 284
3/26/12 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

p.s. I see you live in New Zealand, consider me ridiculously jealous. Can't wait to vacation there sometime in the near future.

Don't be jealous. We'll probably get a 50" VT in a couple of months, the 65" in September, no 55" at all and we'll pay four times as much for them as you do.

Oh wait, you were jealous over the other stuff we have. Never mind then.
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post #20 of 284
3/26/12 at 8:27pm
Not to go too OT, but this quote caught my eye. All I could do is *nod* on my end.

Quote:


" ...and the fact the market has driven prices down for large flat panel displays to the extent where they’re forced to use wide tolerance components and it begins to look like a big ask. Not to mention that now, more than ever, they also need to consider the aesthetics of their products more carefully and so have to cram the innards in to as thin a chassis as is possible. "

My 2006 LCD blows away any of the 2011 LCDs out of the water in terms of raw PQ. So sad...
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post #21 of 284
3/26/12 at 8:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

My 2006 LCD blows away any of the 2011 LCDs out of the water in terms of raw PQ. So sad...

Your 2006 LCD blows away a sharp elite in raw PQ? I think you're confused.
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post #22 of 284
3/26/12 at 9:47pm
So glad I passed up the VT30 and waited for this!
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post #23 of 284
3/26/12 at 9:56pm
Can't wait to see this at the shootout
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post #24 of 284
3/26/12 at 10:34pm
wait, so the st50 is .0032 and the vt50 is only .0004 lower at .0028.

That actually disappointing the vt50 barely improves on the st50. Whats the point of spending a ton extra on the vt50 then.
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post #25 of 284
3/26/12 at 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by laststop311 View Post

wait, so the st50 is .0032 and the vt50 is only .0004 lower at .0028.

That actually disappointing the vt50 barely improves on the st50. Whats the point of spending a ton extra on the vt50 then.

Those are the ANSI black level measurements (checkerboard pattern measurement) which is typically higher than the MLL (minimum luminance level... measurement at a black screen, or 0IRE). They measured the EU ST50 at around 0.0023fL @ 0IRE and they claim that the VT50 was too low to take a measurement. D-Nice commented about their MLL reading of the VT50 at the 'other' site and said that can't be right, because the meter they used can measure accurately down to 0.0003fL, and there's no way that the MLL of the VT50 is that low.

So with that said, I would wait for a technical review of the NA VT50 before we make conclusions on the VT50's MLL measurement. My guess is that the MLL for the VT50 will be around 0.002fL (D-Nice's latest measurement for the ST50 was 0.0028fL) for the smaller sizes, and a little lower for the larger sizes.

As for what the VT50 offers over the ST50, the VT50 has other features, like more picture adjustments (which will allow you to tighten up the picture a little) and 96Hz mode for 24p sources, and a sleeker design. The ST50 is definitely the far better value, though. As is the case with all consumer electronics, the more you spend, the margin of gain becomes smaller.
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post #26 of 284
3/26/12 at 10:45pm
lookin more and more like im gonna have to keep my un55b8500 another year. I hope the NA models pull off a miracle
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post #27 of 284
3/27/12 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

Your 2006 LCD blows away a sharp elite in raw PQ? I think you're confused.

Sorry, I probably should have been clear and stated (with the exception of LCD TVs that cost >$4k )
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post #28 of 284
3/27/12 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Those are the ANSI black level measurements (checkerboard pattern measurement) which is typically higher than the MLL (minimum luminance level... measurement at a black screen, or 0IRE). They measured the EU ST50 at around 0.0023fL @ 0IRE and they claim that the VT50 was too low to take a measurement. D-Nice commented about their MLL reading of the VT50 at the 'other' site and said that can't be right, because the meter they used can measure accurately down to 0.0003fL, and there's no way that the MLL of the VT50 is that low.

So with that said, I would wait for a technical review of the NA VT50 before we make conclusions on the VT50's MLL measurement. My guess is that the MLL for the VT50 will be around 0.002fL (D-Nice's latest measurement for the ST50 was 0.0028fL) for the smaller sizes, and a little lower for the larger sizes.

As for what the VT50 offers over the ST50, the VT50 has other features, like more picture adjustments (which will allow you to tighten up the picture a little) and 96Hz mode for 24p sources, and a sleeker design. The ST50 is definitely the far better value, though. As is the case with all consumer electronics, the more you spend, the margin of gain becomes smaller.

If the ST (and GT if I'm not mistaken) had the picture controls of the VT, I'd probably be OK with them. I'm an amateur calibrator and I need those controls to make that investment worthwhile. Other than forcing NA buyers like me to the VT model, I don't quite understand why the UK models get these controls, but we don't in the states.
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post #29 of 284
3/27/12 at 4:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

The 9G Kuro isn't used as the benchmark for reference blacks, it just has reference blacks, too. You'll have to ask AVForums what measurement is considered "reference".

Reference black = 0 cd/m^2, so they are using the term poorly. They should have been able to measure a full black with the equipment they had so either they screwed up the measurement or the panel shuts off with a full black input.
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post #30 of 284
3/27/12 at 6:45am
With the strict energy guidelines set for tvs it may be a while before anyone matches Kuro blacks?
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