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Onkyo New AVR's TX-NR818,717,616 official Discussion [No Price Talk]Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmach View Post

I have a 809, in the 30 day return period with a good serial #. I can exchange for a 818 for more money, would this be worth it to get XT32 for a 5.1 system?

How much of a difference is there going to be, going from XT to XT32 on a 5.1 system?

I have NO plans on going to a system with more speakers or subs. (WAF)

Thanks,

If you have no plans to need an iPhone/iPod dock, or HD radio (no universal port on the 818), and don't need analog multi-channel input (most folks don't) then go ahead and upgrade to the 818 and get the better EQ with audyssey.

If the things Onkyo has removed from the 809 are things you'll need, then you may be better off upgrading to an NRx009 AVR, or keeping the 809.
The xxx9 models all have XT32 as well, and keep the U port and analog inputs also.
post #212 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post

As of right now, I have 4 subwoofers, a Behringer DEQ2496 EQ and a Dayton Audio OmniMic to measure my system.

I am super happy with my setup and subs work great with each other and all 9 of my speakers. When I get the 818, I'll see if it can do a better job then me on EQing and blending the subs together and with the speakers. I am hoping that the 818 can EQ down to 20hz and has some sort of phase control between the 2 subs outs.

It'll be interesting to see your results - compare the 2 EQ setups and see which one works best with the subs.
post #213 of 1105
[quote=GlassWolf;21961038]
Quote:


Your failure to see the relevance does not make it irrelevant. That was also my first car analogy, so I don't see the need for the "another" part.

I see many car analogy from some members here, so that is why I said "another". It wasn't relevant IMO as this is an A/V forum not an auto forum. Maybe some see the relevance in your analogy but I did not.

Quote:


Define, "affordable." The Sunfire true subwoofer EQ series all have equalization that works quite well, and that still doesn't fix all the things Onkyo is stripping out of a newer, more expensive model trying to claim it's an improvement.

I would say $1k is the max for what I would consider and affordable sub. Looking quickly online the True Subwoofer EQ 10 - TS-EQ10 lists for $1750 which I do not consider affordable for a 10" sub with or without EQ. Maybe the street prices are less but still quite a bit of money for a 10" sub. Chances are you will need two of them so now you would be spending well over $2k for two 10" subs.

Have you had a Sunfire sub with their EQ system in your system? If you have how well does it work in your room? Have you tried an AVR/prepro with XT32 in your room? What vital features has Onkyo "stripped" out of the 818 that were included in the 809 that effect overall SQ?

Quote:


nice try

Huh?

Bill
post #214 of 1105
[quote=Bill Mac;21961765]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

the True Subwoofer EQ 10 - TS-EQ10 lists for $1750 which I do not consider affordable for a 10" sub with or without EQ. Maybe the street prices are less but still quite a bit of money for a 10" sub. Chances are you will need two of them so now you would be spending well over $2k for two 10" subs.

Have you had a Sunfire sub with their EQ system in your system? If you have how well does it work in your room? Have you tried an AVR/prepro with XT32 in your room? What vital features has Onkyo "stripped" out of the 818 that were included in the 809 that effect overall SQ?
Bill

I do use a 10" Sunfire, and in a 16'x18' room, with a single sub, it's amazing. That sub can rattle the entire house. A ten-inch sub sounds fairly small, especially with a cube enclosure of 11" on all sides, but the 2700 watt amplifier makes a huge difference. It really is a fantastic sub, and I purchased mine on eBay used for about $440 to my door. New you can get one for around $900 in regards to your question about the going street price.

The features that were removed affect functionality, not SQ, which to me is equally important. As I've already mentioned repeatedly in this thread, losing analog multi-channel inputs (granted I don't use them myself) as well as (more importantly to me) the universal port, which allows me to use docking stations for iDevices and (again important to me) my HD radio tuner is a deal-killer. I can understand dropping the analog inputs, but why lose the U-port? The first generation of Onkyo NRx00x receivers had HD radio built-in. The next year they made it a $150 option with their U-port add-on, and while they've kept the U-port on the NRx009 units, they are beginning to drop the feature from their 2012 line-up.

Sure XT32 is great to have. I never denied that. What I want to know is why they are pulling other features out of what is supposed to be a successor to the NR809.

Now I'm pretty much forced to buy a refurbed x008 or x009 to get (multi-channel analog inputs) a Universal port, and XT32. It seems to be a little overkill to buy one of those when I'm running a 5.1 system with external amplifiers and powered stereo zone 2. I could do all of this with a 7.2 AV receiver with equally good results if the AVR had the same features as the prior year, with the addition of XT32/sub-EQ.

Heck I even agree with you about not needing to buy a sub with room EQ when the AVR already offers it and integrates it with the full audio spectrum equalizing, so you get a better transition from mains to sub.. Like I said, I'm not anti-XT32. I'm miffed about the removal of other features that, to me, make the AVR more functional.
post #215 of 1105
[quote=GlassWolf;21962148]
Quote:


I do use a 10" Sunfire, and in a 16'x18' room, with a single sub, it's amazing. That sub can rattle the entire house. A ten-inch sub sounds fairly small, especially with a cube enclosure of 11" on all sides, but the 2700 watt amplifier makes a huge difference. It really is a fantastic sub, and I purchased mine on eBay used for about $440 to my door. New you can get one for around $900 in regards to your question about the going street price.

Great price on the Sunfire! Thats good that it works well in your room and thats all that counts.

Quote:


The features that were removed affect functionality, not SQ, which to me is equally important. As I've already mentioned repeatedly in this thread, losing analog multi-channel inputs (granted I don't use them myself) as well as (more importantly to me) the universal port, which allows me to use docking stations for iDevices and (again important to me) my HD radio tuner is a deal-killer. I can understand dropping the analog inputs, but why lose the U-port? The first generation of Onkyo NRx00x receivers had HD radio built-in. The next year they made it a $150 option with their U-port add-on, and while they've kept the U-port on the NRx009 units, they are beginning to drop the feature from their 2012 line-up.

The only feature that you mentioned that I would miss is the 7.1 analog input. I flip flop back and forth with using the analog output of my Oppo 83SE or HDMI (to use XT) for MCH music on my 886. Chances are I will go higher up the model line of either Onkyo or Denon to replace my 886.

Quote:


Sure XT32 is great to have. I never denied that. What I want to know is why they are pulling other features out of what is supposed to be a successor to the NR809.

Now I'm pretty much forced to buy a refurbed x008 or x009 to get (multi-channel analog inputs) a Universal port, and XT32. It seems to be a little overkill to buy one of those when I'm running a 5.1 system with external amplifiers and powered stereo zone 2. I could do all of this with a 7.2 AV receiver with equally good results if the AVR had the same features as the prior year, with the addition of XT32/sub-EQ.

Heck I even agree with you about not needing to buy a sub with room EQ when the AVR already offers it and integrates it with the full audio spectrum equalizing, so you get a better transition from mains to sub.. Like I said, I'm not anti-XT32. I'm miffed about the removal of other features that, to me, make the AVR more functional.

I understand your frustration. But you can always move up the model line (1010?) or as you mentioned go with something from this model year that has XT32. I'm guessing to have an EQ system as good as XT32 to do ones entire system in one package is the best way to go. I have the Anti-Mode 8033C that I use along with XT and when I get something with XT32 the 8033C will be up for sale.

Bill
post #216 of 1105
I guess in a nutshell, it bothers me that I have to move to such an expensive receiver, and go to 9.2 channels, just to keep HD radio/U-port. That's what's really bothering me. This is especially true since I'm only using 5.1 channels at present.

I mis-spoke earlier. My bedroom is 16x18 feet. The living room is 16x20 feet.
Anyway, maybe I can find a good deal on a used 3008 through 5009 when I get ready to replace this current Integra AVR. Maybe I'll get lucky. I just don't think the 818 is going to be for me, and I was considering an 809, but I'll probably just hold out for something 9.2, with XT32/subEQ.
post #217 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

...I'm guessing to have an EQ system as good as XT32 to do ones entire system in one package is the best way to go. I have the Anti-Mode 8033C that I use along with XT and when I get something with XT32 the 8033C will be up for sale.

Bill

Strangely enough, I love my Anti-Mode so much I kind of hate to buy something that'll make it obsolete.

I assumed that there would be little value to the Anti-Mode and XT32 together. Does XT32 do everything that the Anti-Mode is doing? Is there really no benefit to running them together?
post #218 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

ummm... subeq is an integral part of xt32...

ummm...I thought the same thing but read this link.
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/forums/.../20953442.html
post #219 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

This all started with post 33 and is pure speculation without evidence.

+1 and rebutted in another tread. Nothing half baked functionally.
post #220 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

Strangely enough, I love my Anti-Mode so much I kind of hate to buy something that'll make it obsolete.

I assumed that there would be little value to the Anti-Mode and XT32 together. Does XT32 do everything that the Anti-Mode is doing? Is there really no benefit to running them together?

This is a good question. I do not know enough technically about either the Anti-Mode or XT32 to know if running the two together is a benefit or not. My guess would be that XT32 with SubEQ would be fine by itself. I have the Anti-Mode mainly to EQ my sub when listening to 2CH music with my Parasound 2100. When I use my Onkyo 886 for MCH music and HT the Anti-Mode is in play along with XT.

Bill
post #221 of 1105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

ummm...I thought the same thing but read this link.
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/forums/.../20953442.html

Until Audyssey up-dates that list we will not know if for sure SubEQ is not on board with XT32 , I would think it is as he did state that all AVR MFGer's have so far included SubEQ with XT32 , it's actually one of the main features to XT32 IMO .
The Jury is still out till somebody get a unit in house
OR if joerod can confirm it then we'll all know for sure !!!

@ Glasswolf ; you posted that all the X009 Onkyo line had XT32 the TX-NR1009 does not have XT32 , I have a 1009

Quote:


If the things Onkyo has removed from the 809 are things you'll need, then you may be better off upgrading to an NRx009 AVR, or keeping the 809.
The xxx9 models all have XT32 as well, and keep the U port and analog inputs also.
post #222 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

Strangely enough, I love my Anti-Mode so much I kind of hate to buy something that'll make it obsolete.

I assumed that there would be little value to the Anti-Mode and XT32 together. Does XT32 do everything that the Anti-Mode is doing? Is there really no benefit to running them together?

yes...

ime, when went from xt to xt32, i eliminated the antimode from the chain...

as always ymmv... i wouldn't make any judgements personally without measuring...
post #223 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yes...

ime, when went from xt to xt32, i eliminated the antimode from the chain...

as always ymmv... i wouldn't make any judgements personally without measuring...

I have a Integra dtr 5.9 and am looking to purchase the 709 (from A4L as a refurb) to move up from 2EQ to MultiEQ XT. Is XT32 really enough of an improvement to keep saving up for (since its 2x the cost of the 709) or would XT be enough of a leap (from 2EQ) that I would be ok for a couple years?

Dont really need power as my external amp are running my speakers.

I also could just add a SMS-1 into the mix for better Sub EQ, but it wont add more filters to the other speakers.....

Thoughts?
post #224 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

ummm...I thought the same thing but read this link.
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/forums/.../20953442.html

Good link. So subeq sets the delay and volume of each sub independantly, but there's one curve (filter) applied to both subs.

If you have two subs and are getting xt32 thinking it does dual sub eq. It doesn't. It does dual sub correction with regards to distance and volume, but not dual sub equalization. If you plan on getting two subs, I strongly suggest they're identical.
post #225 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

OR if joerod can confirm it then we'll all know for sure !!!

I don't believe he can give out info yet but he did respond when I asked him here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21933704

Seems like good news to me.
post #226 of 1105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

If you plan on getting two subs, I strongly suggest they're identical.

++11oo

with a matched pair there a lot of issues that are Just not there !

I've had both XT32 with a 5008
And what ever Audyssey is in the 1009
in my same set-up ,same room exactly , with my pair of SVS PC12-NSD's subs

I actually preferred the 1009 sound with regard to the subs because I found for me & my room it was easier to get dialed in for Me with the 1009 sub set-up manually. BUT that's just me & should not be taken as advice on one's own set-up

Again this is all I M H O
post #227 of 1105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I don't believe he can give out info yet but he did respond when I asked him here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21933704

Seems like good news to me.

Damn NDA's
Wonder when he can talk about it ?
post #228 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

I have a Integra dtr 5.9 and am looking to purchase the 709 (from A4L as a refurb) to move up from 2EQ to MultiEQ XT. Is XT32 really enough of an improvement to keep saving up for (since its 2x the cost of the 709) or would XT be enough of a leap (from 2EQ) that I would be ok for a couple years?

Dont really need power as my external amp are running my speakers.

I also could just add a SMS-1 into the mix for better Sub EQ, but it wont add more filters to the other speakers.....

Thoughts?

ime, if using dual subs, yes, xt32 (assuming it contains subeq, which all released iterations do) is worth the additional coin...

fwiw, you would not want to eq your subs individually...
post #229 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

fwiw, you would not want to eq your subs individually...

Why not?
post #230 of 1105
^^^

same response as in other thread... the information is out there... look for it...
post #231 of 1105
not all of us read every thread on this board.
post #232 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Why not?

Ditto?

I have 4 subs, 2 up front and center and 2 back and center for the best room response. I run my front ones threw the left channel of my EQ and the back ones threw the right channel of the EQ. The front subs I had a few peaks 20-25hz or so that needed to be tamed and the back subs I needed to boost a little at 45-50hz or so. I also needed to delay my back subs 14ms because they were "fighting" with the front subs and creating a null.

Controlling and EQing the subs seems to be very beneficial to me and works great. My bass is within 3db between my 6/8 seats.
post #233 of 1105
^^^

delay isn't eq...

two phrases as a hint of why you want to eq your subs summed, not individual responses...

a) room modes...

b) mono signal...
post #234 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNICRON-WMD View Post

Ditto?

I have 4 subs, 2 up front and center and 2 back and center for the best room response. I run my front ones threw the left channel of my EQ and the back ones threw the right channel of the EQ. The front subs I had a few peaks 20-25hz or so that needed to be tamed and the back subs I needed to boost a little at 45-50hz or so. I also needed to delay my back subs 14ms because they were "fighting" with the front subs and creating a null.

Controlling and EQing the subs seems to be very beneficial to me and works great. My bass is within 3db between my 6/8 seats.

So, how did you adjust the freq response? Do you have a receiver that supports a different FR for sub1 and sub2?
post #235 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

delay isn't eq...

two phrases as a hint of why you want to eq your subs summed, not individual responses...

a) room modes...

b) mono signal...

I was just giving a very brief idea of how I set up my subs. The delay to one set of subs was applied before I EQed my subs. The front subs and the back subs have 2 different FRs. That is why they are EQed differently. I think I only have 2 filters for each set of subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

So, how did you adjust the freq response? Do you have a receiver that supports a different FR for sub1 and sub2?

I take measurements with the Dayton OmniMic and use a Behringer DEQ2496 EQ just for the subs.
post #236 of 1105
Currently have the 809 also with the 30 day return policy still in effect.
Don't use multi analog inputs and run only 5.1 speakers. Is the 818 worth the upgrade

Thanks
post #237 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccfunk View Post

Currently have the 809 also with the 30 day return policy still in effect.
Don't use multi analog inputs and run only 5.1 speakers. Is the 818 worth the upgrade

Thanks

From what I hear, if for no other reason than Audyssey MultEQ XT32 in the 818 (vs XT in the 809), it's worth it.
post #238 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccfunk View Post

Currently have the 809 also with the 30 day return policy still in effect.
Don't use multi analog inputs and run only 5.1 speakers. Is the 818 worth the upgrade

Thanks

sure, as long as you never plan to want HD radio, or an iPod/iPhone dock.
(no universal port, either on the 818)
post #239 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post

sure, as long as you never plan to want HD radio, or an iPod/iPhone dock.
(no universal port, either on the 818)

So, I think we are all confused. How do you feel about the changes to the 818?

Sheeesh.
post #240 of 1105
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post


sure, as long as you never plan to want HD radio, or an iPod/iPhone dock.
(no universal port, either on the 818)

Buying an Apple iPod dock and using the USB cable is cheaper and works better than the older Onkyo iPod dock. The lack of HD radio is a bummer though.

The rest of the 2012 lineup (TX-NR1010,3010,5010) also drop the universal port. I don't know if they include HD Radio.
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