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Onkyo New AVR's TX-NR818,717,616 official Discussion [No Price Talk]Thread - Page 19

post #541 of 1054
5/19/12 at 6:42pm
The 4311 has 9 internal discreet amps. The 818 has 7 and I don't think they're discreet. I would guess the amps on the 4311 are superior to the 818.
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post #542 of 1054
5/19/12 at 7:24pm
HI,

Will be pulling the trigger on one of these when available in .au

In currently have some floor standing acoustic energy (about 3ft) and some klipsch surrounds.

In terms of teh height speakers - i have some old 15W kenwood surrounds (from a old stereo) - i wonder if these are good enough for the heights, as the only add ambience?

I am worried they dont have enough grunt, but then - i also think they dont need grunt?

Thoughts?
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post #543 of 1054
5/19/12 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

The 4311 has 9 internal discreet amps. The 818 has 7 and I don't think they're discreet. I would guess the amps on the 4311 are superior to the 818.

So these Denon amps are... modest? Just yanking your spelling chain a bit.

The 818 has 7 built-in amps to handle the 7 discrete (as in separate) channels on Blu-ray or to assign the back channel amps to other duties if you don't have back speakers. It has 2 additional pre-amp outputs for post processed wide or height channels besides the 2 subwoofer outs.

Don't know what the quality of the amps between the two models will be yet.
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post #544 of 1054
5/19/12 at 8:04pm
Odd that sellers are beginning to run out of 809s and yet the 818 is still absent from their shelves. What's up with that?
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post #545 of 1054
5/19/12 at 8:36pm
^^^sale prices trying to clear out stock I'm guessing.
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post #546 of 1054
5/19/12 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pologeezer View Post

...i have some old 15W kenwood surrounds (from a old stereo) - i wonder if these are good enough for the heights, as the only add ambience?

Hi. Audyssey DSX wides and heights are not "ambiance" in the way you're thinking. I have DSX wides and they get more signal than you'd think. Others have reported the same for heights. And they should be direct-firing, not bi or dipoles like most purpose-built surrounda.

BTW, you're considering even more timbre mismatch than you have now. Depending on your objective, that's fine, Audyssey will nudge all the speakers towards the reference curve and thus will help blend unmatched speakers. But you will never get as cohesive a surround effect. Audyssey recommends all speakers be from the same product line, timbre-matched and designed to work together to create the most coherent and immersive surround bubble. I ran mismatched DSX wides and mismatched surrounds for awhile and didn't know what I was missing till I upgraded to all speakers within the same family.
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post #547 of 1054
5/19/12 at 9:03pm
[quote=SoundofMind;22042491]Hi. Audyssey DSX wides and heights are not "ambiance" in the way you're thinking. I have DSX wides and they get more signal than you'd think. Others have reported the same for heights. And they should be direct-firing, not bi or dipoles like most purpose-built surrounda.

Do you / anyone (or could recommend) any (klipsch?) that are direct firing?
I am struggling to find direct firing, or identfiying them?

"BTW, you're considering even more timbre mismatch than you have now. Depending on your objective, that's fine, Audyssey will nudge all the speakers towards the reference curve and thus will help blend unmatched speakers. But you will never get as cohesive a surround effect. "

Agree -eventually (when budget allows) I will aim to have all the same, i am going through a transistion - i guess having my fronts/centre all from the same family should be good enough (i hope)
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post #548 of 1054
5/19/12 at 9:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pologeezer View Post

HI,

Will be pulling the trigger on one of these when available in .au

In currently have some floor standing acoustic energy (about 3ft) and some klipsch surrounds.

In terms of teh height speakers - i have some old 15W kenwood surrounds (from a old stereo) - i wonder if these are good enough for the heights, as the only add ambience?

I am worried they dont have enough grunt, but then - i also think they dont need grunt?

Thoughts?

heights are best when they have a very similar voicing to the mains , so Yeah if you feel they don't have enuff " Grunt " they will not add much .. the heights have to be able to keep up with mains or you will never tell they are there .
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post #549 of 1054
5/19/12 at 9:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi. Audyssey DSX wides and heights are not "ambiance" in the way you're thinking. I have DSX wides and they get more signal than you'd think. Others have reported the same for heights. And they should be direct-firing, not bi or dipoles like most purpose-built surrounda.

BTW, you're considering even more timbre mismatch than you have now. Depending on your objective, that's fine, Audyssey will nudge all the speakers towards the reference curve and thus will help blend unmatched speakers. But you will never get as cohesive a surround effect. Audyssey recommends all speakers be from the same product line, timbre-matched and designed to work together to create the most coherent and immersive surround bubble. I ran mismatched DSX wides and mismatched surrounds for awhile and didn't know what I was missing till I upgraded to all speakers within the same family.

What he said ====>
when evenly matched to the mains both heights &/0r wides make a very impressive front soundstage , I can call it a "on stage" feeling. Or in a dynamic movie a feeling of actually being in a scene instead of the regular outside watching the scene . It's very enveloping to say the least
.. I feel mine is seamless with openness & depth a "wall of sound " if you will.
I run both heights & wides, surrounds , mains , center , no backs
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post #550 of 1054
5/19/12 at 9:52pm
Thread Starter 
[quote=pologeezer;22042510]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi. Audyssey DSX wides and heights are not "ambiance" in the way you're thinking. I have DSX wides and they get more signal than you'd think. Others have reported the same for heights. And they should be direct-firing, not bi or dipoles like most purpose-built surrounda.

Do you / anyone (or could recommend) any (klipsch?) that are direct firing?
I am struggling to find direct firing, or identfiying them?

"BTW, you're considering even more timbre mismatch than you have now. Depending on your objective, that's fine, Audyssey will nudge all the speakers towards the reference curve and thus will help blend unmatched speakers. But you will never get as cohesive a surround effect. "

Agree -eventually (when budget allows) I will aim to have all the same, i am going through a transistion - i guess having my fronts/centre all from the same family should be good enough (i hope)

Any of the Klipsch Heritage line , the Referance 82's & of coarse the impressive RF7's

start with the RF-7's & a RC64
if that is too much $
then the Reference RF-82's center RC-62 & the RB81's as heights
all of these are voiced the same as they all use the same basic style of horn load drivers
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post #551 of 1054
5/19/12 at 10:23pm
[QUOTE
I have a TX-NR5008 & a TX-NR1009 those units have the Reon (5008) & the HQV (1009) & I have done side by side comparisons & the 1009 is hands down the better PQ of the 2 units.
The 818 has the HQV chipset as well [/quote]

Could you say the same about the sound quality?
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post #552 of 1054
5/20/12 at 12:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallhall View Post

Quote:


I have a TX-NR5008 & a TX-NR1009 those units have the Reon (5008) & the HQV (1009) & I have done side by side comparisons & the 1009 is hands down the better PQ of the 2 units.
The 818 has the HQV chipset as well

Could you say the same about the sound quality?

they are about the same in SQ thou the 1009 does not have XT32 , in my room I find that my room with my speakers , room correction is Not a big factor , the XT32 did not add much in SQ improvements .
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post #553 of 1054
5/20/12 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

they are about the same in SQ thou the 1009 does not have XT32 , in my room I find that my room with my speakers , room correction is Not a big factor , the XT32 did not add much in SQ improvements .

Many thanks for your reply

The 1009 is one of the receivers i have my eyes on, but i am afraid it is to weak for my speakers, but i dont know
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post #554 of 1054
5/20/12 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

No reasons at all as it is $200 well spent IMO. At the current sale prices of the 4311 it is hard to pass up.

Bill

I dont see a lower sale price on the 4311 anywhere. All I see is some $2000.
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post #555 of 1054
5/20/12 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

I dont see a lower sale price on the 4311 anywhere. All I see is some $2000.

Authorized dealers cannot advertise under the MAP. You will have to actually call them to get any discount.
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post #556 of 1054
5/20/12 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

I dont see a lower sale price on the 4311 anywhere. All I see is some $2000.

Check out this thread. EE might be out of stock but you could call them to see if and when the 4311 will be back in stock. There has been quite a bit of discussion here on AVS regarding the sale prices of the 4311. The search feature is your friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

Authorized dealers cannot advertised under the MAP. You will have to actually call them to get any discount.

True for the most part. But with EE when they were having the "GRANDSLAM" code sale you could bring up the sale price on their site by entering that code.

Bill
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post #557 of 1054
5/21/12 at 6:59am
So I've been trying to compare the TX-NR818 to the Denon 4311ci, to see what the benefits of each are since they seem to now be so close in price (between the current price if you call EE for the 4311 and the pre-order price on Amazon for the 818). According to what I've seen, the 4311 is about $138 more).

For advantages of the 818 what I was able to figure out was: THX Select2 Plus, 4K Video Upconversion, DTS NeoX, $139.00 Less.

For advantages of the 4311 what I was able to figure out was: 5 Watts more/channel, Airplay, HD Radio Tuner, 11.2 Channel Pre-outs, Audyssey Sub EQ, Audyssey Pro Ready, plus any unknown issues that the 818 may have.

Am I missing anything major? As I understand it, the video upconversion of the 4311 is pretty good, but the 818 is better, however if you're watching all HD then it might not really matter that much? The 818 is THX certified, not sure how much of an advantage that is? The 4311 has a definite advantage in number of total possible speakers, has the Audyssey Sub EQ for dual subs, and is Audyssey pro ready - which to me seems like it is the clear winner in total possible SQ. I've never had HD radio so I'm not really sure if that is any advantage or not.

To me, even though the 4311 was released almost 2 years prior, it's more "future proof" than the 818. I'm hoping someone on here with much more knowledge than I have can verify my thought process. I feel like I must be missing something...
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post #558 of 1054
5/21/12 at 9:34am
Joerod

Do we talk about days or weeks before your review of the 818 is finished?.

Thanks in advance
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post #559 of 1054
5/21/12 at 10:14am
On the Amazon product page, there are a bunch of videos highlighting the features of the 818..

Of note is the change in the Home menu from older Onkyo's..

Home now takes you to a "macro" screen, where you can select Network Sources, USB, Insta Preview, Setup Menu and FW updates..

The "old" home menu is now called the Quick Menu...

Why they didn't just leave the Home menu the same and name the new one the Quick menu is beyond me..... the functionality seems to follow those names... weird.

Also the new "Quick" menu, if the videos are accurate, moves the menu off of the lower part of the screen right into the middle... if that is the way it is, it seems an odd, and IMO, intrusive and a bad design choice...

Amazon 818 Page
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post #560 of 1054
5/21/12 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

The 4311 has 9 internal discreet amps. The 818 has 7 and I don't think they're discreet. I would guess the amps on the 4311 are superior to the 818.

Really? I'd be very surprised if Onkyo got away from discrete amps at this stage of the game. Do you know what they mean by 'discrete' amps? It means that each speaker is driven by a dedicated set of power transistors, as opposed to having one big amplifier chip (IC) for all channels. Anything putting out decent power for multiple channels is going to have to be discrete, or else the IC would have to be super large to handle all that power. Just trying to be informative...no offense intended.
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post #561 of 1054
5/21/12 at 10:55am
Re: AirPlay

I found out how Onkyo intends to do AirPlay on the 818 and other 2012 models. They are going to sell an AirPlay dock with Ethernet, component, and optical outs that will integrate with the receiver's network protocol. This dock is much like the dock Denon has been selling, plus AirPlay built in.

So it will be another box with additional cost, due out in about October.
LL
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post #562 of 1054
5/21/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

So I've been trying to compare the TX-NR818 to the Denon 4311ci, to see what the benefits of each are since they seem to now be so close in price (between the current price if you call EE for the 4311 and the pre-order price on Amazon for the 818). According to what I've seen, the 4311 is about $138 more).

For advantages of the 818 what I was able to figure out was: THX Select2 Plus, 4K Video Upconversion, DTS NeoX, $139.00 Less.

For advantages of the 4311 what I was able to figure out was: 5 Watts more/channel, Airplay, HD Radio Tuner, 11.2 Channel Pre-outs, Audyssey Sub EQ, Audyssey Pro Ready, plus any unknown issues that the 818 may have.

Am I missing anything major? As I understand it, the video upconversion of the 4311 is pretty good, but the 818 is better, however if you're watching all HD then it might not really matter that much? The 818 is THX certified, not sure how much of an advantage that is? The 4311 has a definite advantage in number of total possible speakers, has the Audyssey Sub EQ for dual subs, and is Audyssey pro ready - which to me seems like it is the clear winner in total possible SQ. I've never had HD radio so I'm not really sure if that is any advantage or not.

To me, even though the 4311 was released almost 2 years prior, it's more "future proof" than the 818. I'm hoping someone on here with much more knowledge than I have can verify my thought process. I feel like I must be missing something...

I may get flamed for saying this here on this thread, and I mean no disrespect to Onkyo fans, but KK I think you've answered your own question re: 4311 vs 818 IMHO. I am lucky to live in a city where there are some good HD Radio FM stations that I'm able to pick up with a fairly inexpensive Terk antenna so this feature has been nice for me, SQ better than regular FM, YMMV. THX certification is debatable pro and con, I'm not going to get into that... as a 4311 owner and the owner of an Onkyo mini-component DVD/SACD system which has been great... I would advise you to follow your gut instinct...
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post #563 of 1054
5/21/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

Re: AirPlay

I found out how Onkyo intends to do AirPlay on the 818 and other 2012 models. They are going to sell an AirPlay dock with Ethernet, component, and optical outs that will integrate with the receiver's network protocol. This dock is much like the dock Denon has been selling, plus AirPlay built in.

So it will be another box with additional cost, due out in about October.

Stupid. For any additional cost most people will simply buy an AppleTV.
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post #564 of 1054
5/21/12 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

Re: AirPlay

I found out how Onkyo intends to do AirPlay on the 818 and other 2012 models. They are going to sell an AirPlay dock with Ethernet, component, and optical outs that will integrate with the receiver's network protocol. This dock is much like the dock Denon has been selling, plus AirPlay built in.

So it will be another box with additional cost, due out in about October.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post


Stupid. For any additional cost most people will simply buy an AppleTV.

I believe the photo/page posted mentions COMPOSITE video out, not COMPONENT. Will Onkyo's version of AirPlay be able to stream video and audio like AppleTV ? Or it will it be like Denon's & other mfr's implementation which only plays audio?
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post #565 of 1054
5/21/12 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post


I believe the photo/page posted mentions COMPOSITE video out, not COMPONENT. Will Onkyo's version of AirPlay be able to stream video and audio like AppleTV ? Or it will it be like Denon's & other mfr's implementation which only plays audio?

That may be an error. The document with this info was not in English and sort of half-English half-other. Google could have screwed it up, but I did double-check and it came up "composite"

The document also discusses the DTR-70.4 receiver, which is a beast, but it gives some insight as to what Onkyo will put in the 3010. This is about the best look we have so far on a 2012 model higher than the 818. Now that I posted this, some clever work and you all can find the document too.
LL
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post #566 of 1054
5/21/12 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post

I found out how Onkyo intends to do AirPlay on the 818 and other 2012 models. They are going to sell an AirPlay dock with Ethernet, component, and optical outs that will integrate with the receiver's network protocol. This dock is much like the dock Denon has been selling, plus AirPlay built in.

They have also added pre-programmed codes into the included remote to directly control an AppleTV... use the STB input, and you're good to go..
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post #567 of 1054
5/21/12 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rworne View Post


That may be an error. The document with this info was not in English and sort of half-English half-other. Google could have screwed it up, but I did double-check and it came up "composite"

The document also discusses the DTR-70.4 receiver, which is a beast, but it gives some insight as to what Onkyo will put in the 3010. This is about the best look we have so far on a 2012 model higher than the 818. Now that I posted this, some clever work and you all can find the document too.

Thanks for posting this...looks very strong. I love my Onkyo mini-component DVD/DVD-A/SACD/CD unit with Onkyo speakers from about 2007. A workhorse bang for the buck unit with amazing SQ.
I seriously considered Onkyo and Integra AVRs but have yet to see one recently (last 3 years) that offers digital OUT from either coaxial or optical. This feature is important to me. Denon AVRs support this feature...did Onkyo and Integra have digital opt or coax out in the past? I realize it's now almost considered legacy like S-video so I know I'm in the minority on this...
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post #568 of 1054
5/21/12 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

So I've been trying to compare the TX-NR818 to the Denon 4311ci, to see what the benefits of each are since they seem to now be so close in price (between the current price if you call EE for the 4311 and the pre-order price on Amazon for the 818). According to what I've seen, the 4311 is about $138 more).

For advantages of the 818 what I was able to figure out was: THX Select2 Plus, 4K Video Upconversion, DTS NeoX, $139.00 Less.

For advantages of the 4311 what I was able to figure out was: 5 Watts more/channel, Airplay, HD Radio Tuner, 11.2 Channel Pre-outs, Audyssey Sub EQ, Audyssey Pro Ready, plus any unknown issues that the 818 may have.

Am I missing anything major? As I understand it, the video upconversion of the 4311 is pretty good, but the 818 is better, however if you're watching all HD then it might not really matter that much? The 818 is THX certified, not sure how much of an advantage that is? The 4311 has a definite advantage in number of total possible speakers, has the Audyssey Sub EQ for dual subs, and is Audyssey pro ready - which to me seems like it is the clear winner in total possible SQ. I've never had HD radio so I'm not really sure if that is any advantage or not.

To me, even though the 4311 was released almost 2 years prior, it's more "future proof" than the 818. I'm hoping someone on here with much more knowledge than I have can verify my thought process. I feel like I must be missing something...

I think you are comparing a seven channel receiver to a nine channel, so there is going to be inherent differences. The 818 has the advantage of being able to decode 24bit/96 k for high res audio. The 4311 of course should be the better of the the two. Onkyos equivalent to the 4311 is closer to the 3009 model. That would be a far better comparison in terms of tech. Jmo.
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post #569 of 1054
5/21/12 at 5:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

They have also added pre-programmed codes into the included remote to directly control an AppleTV... use the STB input, and you're good to go..

Is there a Andriod option as well ?? I'm trying to do a HTPC,HT,whole house network,cameras, that uses a Andriod tablet ... I'm not a Apple guy
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post #570 of 1054
5/21/12 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic debauchery View Post


I think you are comparing a seven channel receiver to a nine channel, so there is going to be inherent differences. The 818 has the advantage of being able to decode 24bit/96 k for high res audio.

Why do you think the Denon can't do 24/96?
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo New AVR's TX-NR818,717,616 official Discussion [No Price Talk]Thread