Anyone care to speculate on the new 4k disc format?

Yeah, I know this is the Blu-ray software section, but since there seems to be some small industry rumblings on the subject of a new 4k disc medium to coincide with 4k displays, I thought I'd get a discussion going on the next new "it" thing on the horizon. Besides, it might get more hits than in some lesser frequented subforum.

Anyone hear anything besides a few hints at CES that we may see this new format in 2013?

Do you suppose it's going to be based on multi-layered 100 and 200 GB Blu-ray technology with a faster bitrate? Or do you think they'll finally use higher capacity holographic disc storage like GE Plastics' disc invention?

Will the rumors be true that it'll include 12 bit color and a wider gamut than the Rec. 709 standard?

Will they use a new video compression codec like RED's wavelet software for higher efficiency and truer-to-the-master reproduction?

Sony's new 4k consumer projector has a 4096 x 2160 chip, which is ~1.85:1. Do you think they'll move to that theatrical U.S. Academy ratio or go with the QFHD ratio of 3840 x 2160, which is HDTV's standard 1.78:1?

How about the audio codecs? Do you suppose they'll stick with Blu-ray's audio specs. or come up with some new lossless format like DTS Master Audio with 11.2 channels and 32 bit resolution (I'm exaggerating here, or am I??)? Will they drop the lossy audio codecs and uncompressed PCM altogether and stick with lossless only?

Will they finally dump interlaced video and add 25 (European HD), 30 (Todd-AO and the like), 48 and 60 frames per second (like Peter Jackson and James Cameron are wanting to shoot in) progressive video support besides just 2160p @ 24 fps? You would think they would look ahead to current and future trends of digital cinematography (The Hobbit, for instance, is being shot at 48 fps), but the industry isn't always as swift as one would hope.

Full 2160p 3D support?

Any provisions for 2.35:1/2.39:1 ratio and other wider than 1.85:1 ratio films to increase their resolution rather than wasting it on black bars?


If they piggyback on HDMI... it doesn't have the bandwidth currently to handle all this stuff and won't that then lower the higher quality one would expect from a more expensive 4k disc...? And besides don't most people (me included) think HDMI should be dumped and replaced with a far better (encrypted, of course) cable standard anyway? How about a professional grade digital interface... if it's good enough for Hollywood studios...

Hopefully, they will dump the Java software backbone for something more efficient (lean, mean, and quickly loaded) and make resume playback a required feature.

Cost increase and by how much over Blu-ray? Cost for players?

You know it's coming and a new HD medium was inevitable, so let's discuss and speculate!

Industry insiders are welcome to drop more hints too or even take suggestions!

Perhaps there needs to be a 4k resolution hardware/software subforum. It's probably about time, anyway.

You can't stop progress.

One thing about the discussion in the other thread, not that it isn't good, is that those subforums are not used as much.

I still think there needs to be some future trends forum at least that is tied to the previous video format's forum... some way to get more traffic and more talk generated.

Yeah, I didn't use the standard video frame rates in my thread opener for simplicity's sake, though I'd assume they'd go with video compatible rates like with Blu-ray and previous home video formats. Since a digital projection system works off video compatible frame rates and not precise rates like film and the only way you can see The Hobbit at 47.96 fps is at a digitally equipped cinema, I can see why Jackson set the RED to this video friendly frame rate (the RED camera lets you set it for film or video rate modes).

Thanks for contributing to the thread, Fang Zei!

Ditto! Full 2160p 3D at up to 60 fps too just so we cover all the bases.

I can definitely see that HDMI will need to be phased out with this new format. As Jack Nicholson, says: it can't handle the truth!

How about fiber based, high-bandwidth SDI that can handle ultra-high resolution specs. like they use in professional Hollywood and broadcast production equipment?

Good riddance to HDMI and all the headaches that go with it!

There would be a small perceived visual improvement and greater depth of field, besides smoother motion and far, far less judder compared to the traditional 24 fps. Just look at Oklahoma! in Todd-AO at 30 fps on plain vanilla DVD. Now they are doing 48 fps and Cameron, again, wants to do 60 fps.

However, since you have to change Blu-ray's specs., up the bitrate and storage capacity, and you need new players, etc. you might as well have at least double the resolution of Blu-ray, up the color to 12 bit and a greater than Rec. 709 gamut, and put all on a higher capacity disc while you're at it.

I'd imagine 4k @ 60 fps would be breathtaking on a projection system.

I was exaggerating on the hypothetical DTS specs... who knows what, if anything, they'll add or subtract in regards to the new format.

Maybe Dolby or DTS has something up their sleave, maybe the studios want to stay with Dolby and DTS lossless specs. as is?

Not at the new increased frame rates digital cinematography is taking us.

No full 4k 3D either.

HDMI has run out of steam in its current form. I say bury it.

HDMI can do the QFHD format @ 24 fps... that's it as of now.

The Hobbit, as has been mentioned is one of the first to up the frame rate to 48 fps... some filmmakers want to go higher like up to 60 fps.

The current HDMI cable specs., if they can even be updated to support all this stuff, will ham string any new 4k format.

That's one reason professional A/V equipment rarely uses HDMI. They have other, better cable interfaces. So, why not encrypt them (to make Hollywood happy) and then apply them to new consumer gear?

I just don't like the fact that HDMI has such a problem with long cable distances, making it extremely frustrating for whole house usage... plus their connector is terrible.

I'm sure they're trying to sqeeze every bit they can out of this cable format they can due to 4k products being released soon. HDMI.org wants those royalty and licensing fee checks to keep coming in.

However, I wonder if the lengths will have to keep getting shorter and shorter the more bandwidth they try to pipe through? 1080p @ 60 fps is already a struggle for HDMI cables at certain lengths that some people need for their projector setups.

I still believe it's time to go to a more professional and robust cable interface.

That would be a mistake to try and shoe-horn in a make-shift 4k Blu-ray format within the current structure and limited bitrate. That really would be suicide.

If new players and TV's are needed anyway... why not take a fresh stab at it with a new, efficient wavlet codec, 12 bit color, etc.? There are rough software interface edges with Blu-ray they could smooth over with a brand new 4k disc format that has much higher capacity and bandwidth.