Anyone care to speculate on the new 4k disc format? - Page 2

QFHD (3840×2160)? That's pretty damn good.


Stop giving them ideas. You forgot $50 price.

We will have to wait until July 2012 when the HEVC committee publishes the new H.265 codec that address 4K resolution. Then Sony can choose between that codec, Redray codec, or their own propriety codec (which they always love to do). HEVC will be finalize in Jan 2013.
Sony is the one that will push 4K. They desperately need a new revenue stream. Their TV business is dead. 4K will give them a chance to partner with some other manufacture and get back in the race with the Chinese. Whether that is 4K CLED or OLED or just plain LCD. Their 4K projectors are selling well. They have the movie studio side to release the new 4K movies and make their old movies available in 4K as well. The movies will fit on the current BDXL 128GB discs at 2160p at higher frame rates using any of the new codecs. The biggest problem will be streaming. They could get it down 60-80 mbps, but that still leave a lot of homes with connections to slow. By late 2013 more homes should have adequate connections to at least start buffering and run a 4K movie 5 minutes after you request it.
The PS4 will probably be the first native 4K player and is scheduled for Christmas 2013 release (which seems early to me). The Xbox 720 should have 4K resolution as well, as they will be making more money on the movie/tv side than the gaming side and they expect it to have a 8-10 year life cycle like the current one. So 4K should start a serious launch early 2014 and slowly take off from there.

HDMI 1.4 can do 3840x2160 at 24/25/30 Hz. Should really be a lot higher though.

In the early days of Blu-ray, the CEMs encouraged 'early adoption' [in part] by limiting the availability of dual DVD/BD SKUs at prices comparable to BD media alone--presenting consumers with a choice: either buy a Blu-ray player 'early' and start buying new movies on BD immediately, or defer purchasing a BD player, continue to buy new movies on DVD, and perhaps re-buy the same movies on BD when you eventually purchase a BD player. The wider use of combo DVD/BD retail packaging nowadays seems to signal the end of the early adoption phase, and a move to maturity|exploitation for the Blu-ray market.

There would seem to be less advantage to the consumer to make some decisive step-up from BD to 4kBD, so it would probably be best for the studios to package retail physical or download 4kBD content in a single combo BD|4kBD SKU, and at a price comparable to competitor movies in BD only, so as to encourage an evolutionary transition from BD to 4kBD by a widest possible group of BD player owners, and at their own pace.

Ah hell no. Another new format? I really hope this goes the way of DVD-audio/SACD and never gains traction. I don't wanna to go through all the re-buying of 4K material!

Especially so given that there is some possibility of 8K4K content appearing by the mid 2020s.

I hear ya man. I just really hate when studios give me the opportunity of buying a new, improved version of a film. Especially when I'm under no obligation whatsoever to upgrade.

When did I hear that last?

Oh yes.

They can use the existing BD platform of 50 Gb dual layer for 4K because . . .

1. They will use an advanced video codec (H.265)

2. It will still be 4:2:0

Until such time that the industry makes a committment to industry wide use of a higher frame rate, be it 48 FPS or higher, any movies shot that way will be unique so no reason to have a home video version that matches them. You want to see advanced frame rate movies - go to a theater showing them.

Sure - not difficult at all. BTW there is no 60 FPS movie to date (not including special venue Showscan shorts).


So you are recommending that the BDA is going to make changes for what? A handful of movies? Hardly. They made the changes for 3D because 3D is an industry wide addition. And they could use the exisiting BD platform and BD replication machines.

The fact is, so far a single movie is being shot at 48FPS - THE HOBBITT


LOL - they can think what they want, IMO Hollywood will not give us 10bit or 12bit color space. They didn't do it for HD (whose specs included it - Deep Color), they won't do it for 4K. And upping the color space bits makes a drastic change in the amount of storage required let alone upping the frame rate.

A while ago Sony and Panasonic showed an "improved" version of BD-ROM - 66GB dual layer . . .

So where is it?

High Efficiency Video Coding


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Ef...y_Video_Coding

How big of a market do you think exists for 4K?

Would you agree that the market size for BD is considerably less then it is for DVD?

What about HD Audio? Is there any other mass market platform besides BD that uses it extensively? Do all those that have an HDTV and BD player also have an HD Audio receiver?

The problem I see with 4K television and home video content is that it's only an incremental step on the way to the real upgrade that will eventually be UHDTV. DVD gave us an image twice as sharp as vhs. HD gave us an image six times as sharp as dvd. 4K would only be four times the resolution of HD. UHDTV, on the other hand, would be 16 times the resolution of HD.

I think you are confusing the number of pixels versus the actual resolution of images. Six times the pixel count (as comparing DVD to BD/HD) does not result in a six times resolution increase. In actuality, it's only about a 2 to 2.5X increase in resolution.

If Sony wants to use BD as a platform for 4K, they have to get the BDA involved. They can't go it alone. Plus you are going to need more studio support for 4K then just Sony for it to be successful.

IMO, Sony is through with their own proprietary formats, especially after Betamax and UMD.


Sure - x.v.Color - already being used in some consumer HD Camcorders. But again, if it involves BD, it involves the BDA. But in reality, it's nothing more than a baby step when it comes to increasing the color space depth. It does very little to increase the Gray Scale.


IMO, increasing the Gray Scale from it's current 256 to 1024 would be more noticeable to most consumers.


And who will buy it? Videophiles - a VERY small segement of the overall market.

Or 2
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey and
The Hobbit: There and Back Again

"The two films are being shot simultaneously in 3-D"

Because that would be unfair to Europeans who also want 25p and 50p at full res . They should also add 120 fps since that's what Douglass Trumbull will be shooting in, and is also what they intend to have SHV at - and also 100 fps.

Right - 2 films one to be shown in 2012, the other in 2013. And in that time period they will also shoot another 1500 films, none of them higher then 24 FPS.

What was the last full length Hollywood movie that Douglas Trumbull shot?

I don't know, it's probably on the internet somewhere though, like imdb.

I bet there will be some shot higher, and there will be plenty of TV programmes shot at more than 24 fps.

One control that might make a comeback on the future 4KBD player is ZOOM. The problem with zooming in on some detail portion of the frame with a DVD player was that there was no additional detail to be revealed; you only saw the same blur but now covering a larger portion of the screen. However zooming 4K BD content on a 1080 line display offers several interesting possibilities: a 10% zoom puts around 20% more 'central picture detail' on the display, albeit at the expense of the peripheral content, but nonetheless that may be overall advantageous depending on the (picture) aspect ratio and|or the location|framing of the on-screen action. And playing a 4K BD on a 1080 line display at 2x offers different possibilities: you could discard 75% of the video content in favor of full 4K detail for the remaining 25% . . . a feature which I expect might be 'appealing' to aficionados of the 'adult video' industry's products!

BRAINSTORM - 1983


Sure - 60P as in 720x60P HD

It seems almost ridiculous to discuss 4K when BD is still :

What would be more indicative of the future would be the numbers from only content available in both BD (including BD+DVD combo) and DVD SKUs...?!

Or maybe Laserdisc - a true Videophile format when it was released. So how did it do adoption wise?

HDMI is not going away anytime soon. There's too much invested in it. I believe consumer 4K (what little there will be) will be based on multiple HDMI
connections.

Based on the extremely poor financial model for consumer 4K I highly doubt anyone will want to further invest in developing a new consumer interface standard.

Pro interfaces like HDSDI are also multi channel to carry the bandwidth at 4K. And they don't support two way communication so Ethernet is also needed to carry the encryption keys back and forth. This is how it works in digital cinema.

Don't get me wrong. I hate HDMI too but just like death and taxes, it's here to stay.

It will be interesting to hear what's said about The Future of Broadcast Television (FoBTV) at NAB 2012 this month, as any timetable for a move towards 4K broadcasting ("Thomson Video Networks to Outline Route to 4K Broadcasting at the 2012 NAB Show") will likely affect manufacturing planning for 4K displays . . . which timetable would seem to be 'related' to any timetable for 4K BD disk-and-player roll out. Plus, even some 'not quite imminent' prospect of 4K broadcasting would be an incentive to shoot for TV in 4K--to be prepared for future rerun|export|disk sales even if the current first run of the show is limited to broadcast in 1080.