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Pureland Supply - You will get a Third Party Bulb even if listed with the original manufacturer's...

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

So I placed an order for my JVC HD 250 "original" bulb and I ordered it from Pureland supply at $358.70. Which is very close to the $399 JVC price, so I thought I was getting an OEM bulb. What I got was a fake APOG remanufactured bulb. I'm pretty upset about this right now and I feel it serves me right for not ordering from AVS. I bought the projector from AVS and I guess I should have called them making time during my workday to do so. How happy I would have been if I could have simply ordered online if it were listed on their website.

As it stands I'm probably out for overnight shipping, return shipping and I have to wait longer for the real bulb. This whole thing is a total waste of my time. A fake bulb costs around $260 so if I wanted a fake that's what I would have paid and that's what a fake is worth if that. Please don't allow yourselves to have your time wasted by companies like this selling fake remanufactured stuff. Learn from my mistake and order from AVS or from the manufacturer. This is such a major disappointment.


Edited by sxr71 - 2/4/13 at 10:07am
post #2 of 29
FYI , I have used several APO Brand lamps and I believe that they are among the better of the aftermarket UHP class but not actual Philips Belgium or Philips China made lamps. When you say re-manufactured are you talking about the lamp and reflector or the lamp holder/case and saying that it's used? Does your original lamp have a brand name and a part number on it? Are you sure that the one you are getting from JVC will be the exact same one or could they be selling a knock off as well. I always suggest to people that they call the lamp seller and ask them to look at the actual lamp to make sure you are getting what you think you are getting.

Hope this Helps.

Bohanna
post #3 of 29
NEVER go cheap on bulbs. The extra $50 is almost always worth it.
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

FYI , I have used several APO Brand lamps and I believe that they are among the better of the aftermarket UHP class but not actual Philips Belgium or Philips China made lamps. When you say re-manufactured are you talking about the lamp and reflector or the lamp holder/case and saying that it's used? Does your original lamp have a brand name and a part number on it? Are you sure that the one you are getting from JVC will be the exact same one or could they be selling a knock off as well. I always suggest to people that they call the lamp seller and ask them to look at the actual lamp to make sure you are getting what you think you are getting.

Hope this Helps.

Bohanna

Well the way I see it it's "remanufactured" because they put probably the original bulb in a cheap aftermarket housing. I really doubt JVC themselves would sell such a lamp. As far as I'm concerned I was lied to because an original bulb should have JVC branding. I saw a picture of the box on the internet and the box says "JVC" but this box says APOG and the actual lamp does not have Philips or JVC on it. There is only a Pureland supply sticker with a Pureland supply part number. When I ordered I expected a JVC bulb with JVC part number BHL-5010S which is what the item listing said it would be. There is no indication of JVC or of BHL 5010S on the lamp. The picture of the original JVC lamp has the real JVC part number on it:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/attac...p_original.jpg

So basically I paid for an original lamp and got a cheap knock off. I believe an aftermarket lamp is worth about $260 and to me the savings is not ever worth the headache and risk of early failure or outgassing or potential other damage to my projector. But I paid $358 so beyond misrepresenting the product they also duped me out of about $100.

At the end of the day this whole thing is a big headache and I feel very ripped off. I barely have time during the day to deal with these things and apart from having to deal with returning this thing and swallowing shipping both ways I still have to order the real lamp from JVC and wait for it. This has turned out to be 2 trips to the UPS store and one trip to the FedEx store for me and all the wasted time of getting an RMA and ordering twice. If this ridiculous company did not advertise falsely this all would have been averted. I learned my lesson and I hope nobody from here ever orders from these crooks.

My lamp looks nothing like this and it looks and feels very cheap.



For what it's worth here is the listing on Pureland supply:

http://www.purelandsupply.com/bhl-50...FYoDQAodWVh6cw

I see in hindsight the wording is very clever. I really thought I was getting a BHL5010S.
post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 
Just ordered from JVC $458 with tax and overnight shipping. Worth every penny to not get jerked off. FWIW the electrified "fake" lamp is only $219. So I overpaid grossly for such a fake.
post #6 of 29
this is why you always need to get a part number from the company selling you the product. Then make sure it matches the OEM part number. If they wont provide the part number then dont buy from them
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

this is why you always need to get a part number from the company selling you the product. Then make sure it matches the OEM part number. If they wont provide the part number then dont buy from them

They quoted the JVC part no.
post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
Well anyway for what it's worth Pureland issued me an RMA very quickly and my JVC bulb will be here tomorrow. So it's all almost over. Just a big headache and missed expectations.
post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxr71 View Post

They quoted the JVC part no.

if they quoted you the JVC OEM part number you shouldn't even pay for shipping. This is a classic case of false advertising. I would have DEMANDED they pay for the shipping both ways. That is FRAUD.
post #10 of 29
Please explain how this is a 'cheap' knockoff?
post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxr71 View Post

So I placed an order for my JVC HD 250 "original" bulb and I ordered it from Pureland supply at $358.70. Which is very close to the $399 JVC price, so I thought I was getting an OEM bulb. What I got was a fake APOG remanufactured bulb. I'm pretty upset about this right now and I feel it serves me right for not ordering from AVS. I bought the projector from AVS and I guess I should have called them making time during my workday to do so. How happy I would have been if I could have simply ordered online if it were listed on their website.

As it stands I'm probably out for overnight shipping, return shipping and I have to wait longer for the real bulb. This whole thing is a total waste of my time. A fake bulb costs around $260 so if I wanted a fake that's what I would have paid and that's what a fake is worth if that. Please don't allow yourselves to have your time wasted by companies like this selling fake remanufactured stuff. Learn from my mistake and order from AVS or from the manufacturer. This is such a major disappointment.

These type of posts get me almost as mad as the people who post them.

In no way did we say it was an OEM lamp. It does have the same bulb that JVC uses and APO makes wonderful quality cages. All of our products go through a QC process before being sold. Any questions from a customer are always answered as precisely as possible. Unlike some of the companies that share our product lines, we actually care what people think of us and our products. Almost all of our lamps use at least the OEM bulb. there are a few older models that are no longer made that are indeed 3rd party bulbs, but those are few and far between.

Keeping returns down by offering quality is the only way to make an honest sale in this business.

We are refunding your entire charge, but you could have used it and it would have worked the same as the more expensive lamp from JVC.

People need to be more educated in this area. Projector lamps are not made by the manufacturers you buy them from. They are purchased from companies like us and are re-boxed the manufacturer. We sell to a few companies but I cannot legally say who in public. The fact of the matter is that there are only a few different true manufacturers of lamps and bulbs, and those who take the time to test and verify the proper operation. I want to know that when I put one of our lamps in my CL-710 or my PLV-Z5 that it will work properly.

While I am very sorry you feel that you were treated poorly, I feel that you may have over-reacted and am sorry to lose a customer over something like this.
post #12 of 29
Should've pmed him first?
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

FYI , I have used several APO Brand lamps and I believe that they are among the better of the aftermarket UHP class but not actual Philips Belgium or Philips China made lamps. When you say re-manufactured are you talking about the lamp and reflector or the lamp holder/case and saying that it's used? Does your original lamp have a brand name and a part number on it? Are you sure that the one you are getting from JVC will be the exact same one or could they be selling a knock off as well. I always suggest to people that they call the lamp seller and ask them to look at the actual lamp to make sure you are getting what you think you are getting.

Hope this Helps.

Bohanna

APO does use Philips China bulbs as well as a few of the Philips Belgium bulbs(not nearly as many as the China bulbs). We do not purchase any of the non Philips APO products. We only purchase the versions that have the Philips bulbs.
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by foranzi View Post

APO does use Philips China bulbs as well as a few of the Philips Belgium bulbs(not nearly as many as the China bulbs). We do not purchase any of the non Philips APO products. We only purchase the versions that have the Philips bulbs.

HMM??? are you sure?? I thought that APO actually made the lamps. I know the reflectors are a bit different than the factory ones that shipped with the Belgium lamps in the older sanyo's Like the xp10na and the 200 watt uhp rounds in the xp18-21 series projectors. I am not saying they are substandard because they seem to be a pretty good quality build. They do have a slight cut out in the front lens that is not completely sealed like the Philips ones but that could be a good thing since it allows for a bit better cooling. I have found the cages/holders to be good quality as well and are far better than some of the other knock offs I have run into. If the same people who made the APO cages made the JVC cages they are probably pretty good. I think that the guy who bought the lamp thought he was getting an EXACT replacement of the lamp and cage that came with his projector in the first place and to him everything else is cheap knock off. The various boards are filled with complaints of after market knock offs that fail all the time or fail much earlier than they should. I believe this guy thought that he was being taken for a ride and may have over reacted a bit but he seems to have some valid points about the description of the product. If his lamp cage said JVC and the one he got says APO I can see where he may have freaked.

Just say'n

Hope this helps

Bohanna
post #15 of 29
Here something I wrote a while back. I start at post #10

Hope it helps
Bohanna

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1326793
post #16 of 29
My two cents...

We bought a replacement lamp from Pureland several months ago for our Optoma HD80. We installed it and it worked but we thought we were not seeing as bright an image as we had been used to seeing when we had replaced lamps (OEM) in the past. We contacted Pureland and explained our concern and they were totally responsive to our issue. We ended up keeping the lamp and not returning it because they took us through a careful process of cleaning the PJ and reseating the lamp. All the while they offered to have us return the lamp for a refund or replacement. They were very good to work with both by e-mail and phone. Just thought someone with a positive experience should chime in here.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

HMM??? are you sure?? I thought that APO actually made the lamps. I know the reflectors are a bit different than the factory ones that shipped with the Belgium lamps in the older sanyo's Like the xp10na and the 200 watt uhp rounds in the xp18-21 series projectors. I am not saying they are substandard because they seem to be a pretty good quality build. They do have a slight cut out in the front lens that is not completely sealed like the Philips ones but that could be a good thing since it allows for a bit better cooling. I have found the cages/holders to be good quality as well and are far better than some of the other knock offs I have run into. If the same people who made the APO cages made the JVC cages they are probably pretty good. I think that the guy who bought the lamp thought he was getting an EXACT replacement of the lamp and cage that came with his projector in the first place and to him everything else is cheap knock off. The various boards are filled with complaints of after market knock offs that fail all the time or fail much earlier than they should. I believe this guy thought that he was being taken for a ride and may have over reacted a bit but he seems to have some valid points about the description of the product. If his lamp cage said JVC and the one he got says APO I can see where he may have freaked.

Just say'n

Hope this helps

Bohanna

You are partially correct. They do have their own line of bulbs that they produce, but those are sold as a part # of PLXXXX. We do not purchase that line.

We only purchase their APOG line (part # APOG-XXXX). the APOG line only uses OEM bulbs such as Philips, Osram, Ushio, Phoenix. They also sell actuall Brand boxed OEM for some models as well. APO has become a very reputable replacement company over the past 3 years.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Here something I wrote a while back. I start at post #10

Hope it helps
Bohanna

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1326793

That was a very informative and spot on post.

To add to your knowledge, here is some more info.

Philips, while a good company cant be used in all units. Many places also substitute Philips for Ushio of Japan thinking they are saving money and still making a good product.

Ushio bulbs are 2x the cost of Philips in many cases. Ushio makes DC and AC lamps and depending on the part #, you can't substitute since Philips is only AC. Also, Ushio uses a different pressure of gas inside the bruner to help with color purity.

Personally, I prefer Ushio over Philips. Both my Sanyo and Runco use Ushio bulbs (as is required by the manufacturer) and they run great. That is obviously subjective since I see things visually different than someone else, but the whites seem brighter on a projector that uses Ushio bulbs(to me).

Feel free to contact me anytime with questions. One thing that sets our company apart from others is that we actually listen to our customers. Even when they post stuff like this.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by btokars View Post

My two cents...

We bought a replacement lamp from Pureland several months ago for our Optoma HD80. We installed it and it worked but we thought we were not seeing as bright an image as we had been used to seeing when we had replaced lamps (OEM) in the past. We contacted Pureland and explained our concern and they were totally responsive to our issue. We ended up keeping the lamp and not returning it because they took us through a careful process of cleaning the PJ and reseating the lamp. All the while they offered to have us return the lamp for a refund or replacement. They were very good to work with both by e-mail and phone. Just thought someone with a positive experience should chime in here.

Thank you so much for the kind words. I actually recall your situation.

OPs post really upset me personally because we work very hard to sell a good product at a fair price. We take a lot of pride in what we do and things like his false comments cause me a lot of stress.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by foranzi View Post

That was a very informative and spot on post.

To add to your knowledge, here is some more info.

Philips, while a good company cant be used in all units. Many places also substitute Philips for Ushio of Japan thinking they are saving money and still making a good product.

Ushio bulbs are 2x the cost of Philips in many cases. Ushio makes DC and AC lamps and depending on the part #, you can't substitute since Philips is only AC. Also, Ushio uses a different pressure of gas inside the bruner to help with color purity.

Personally, I prefer Ushio over Philips. Both my Sanyo and Runco use Ushio bulbs (as is required by the manufacturer) and they run great. That is obviously subjective since I see things visually different than someone else, but the whites seem brighter on a projector that uses Ushio bulbs(to me).

Feel free to contact me anytime with questions. One thing that sets our company apart from others is that we actually listen to our customers. Even when they post stuff like this.

I believe you are referring to the NSH type metal halides that all seem to be rear vented as opposed to sealed reflectors like a lot of the UHP's. Some of the sanyo still use these lamps. IMO the whites look brighter with the Phillips UHP's but that is just my opinion The sanyo SP10ns use these DC metal halides but they burn out faster than the UHP's.

FYI- I have a large supply of 150/180 1.0 2 & 3/4 x 2 & 1/2 square china made philips lamps that I bought a while back and I have retrofitted them into several projector cages. Even the ones with XP10na series rounds. I also have a mini drill press that I use to drill holes in the rear of the cement for the rear vented lamps and it works out pretty well. I have also put them into several rear vented sonys. The 1.0 gap is actually a plus since they seem to last longer than the 1.3 and the 1.5 gap UHPs that are on the market. As long as you can keep them cool and the arc chamber doesn't distort they will last well over the 2000 hour time frame. I do this projector stuff for a hobby and have sold quite a few of these retrofitted projectors on craigs list. I am of the opinion that nothing comes near the build quality of the older sanyos. I have a 52 inch 1080p Sony Bravia LCD panel TV and the projector actually shows a better picture at 110 inches than it does as long as you have a semi darkened room. I have it connected VIA the VGA port to a MYHD tuner which is the top of the line and it is FREAKING GREAT for watching Unencrypted network TV sports.
Anyway thanks for the lamp Info, It would be nice if someone wrote a little blurb about the difference between the AC/DC and various UHP-NSHH-SHP-UHB- lamps

Bohanna
post #21 of 29
Geeesh.....

Everybody on here knows how after market lamps are marketed and sold using borderline truthful advertising.

Then to come on here and try to defend the practices?

The only right thing to do is to refund and both parties move on at this point.
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone. This has gotten really dirty. I did get my refund (will need to check my cc statement to be sure though).

However they have sent me a message stating that they want to sue me for Internet libel.

Look at this listing:

http://www.purelandsupply.com/bhl-50...FYoDQAodWVh6cw

Do you see an APOG part number there?

I see a JVC part number. Yet the lamp I received was an APOG lamp with an APOG part number. Is it not deception when they put a JVC part number? Where is the APOG name and part number in the product listing? Am I wrong to think I will get a JVC BHL 5010S when that is the listed art number? This is pure deception and now I am getting legal threats from these people.

There's no case for libel here I'm only stating the truth. If I knew it were an APOG bulb I would have never bought it. And even if I wanted an APOG bulb I would price shop it against other APOG bulbs which cost a lot less than the price at Pureland Supply.

This would not have happened if these people simply stated this is an APOG part no. xxxxx. But they want up put the JVC part number up there and use big words like "original". Well it mislead me and it could mislead others. I want to make it clear that if you order from here you will NOT get a JVC branded BHL 5010S and there's no libel in telling people what they will get. I can't have these kind of people threatening us with legal action every time we wish to inform others what they will actually receive.
post #23 of 29
That, for me, is a good reason NEVER to do business with them. That's really petty and very poor customer relations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sxr71 View Post

Hey everyone. This has gotten really dirty. I did get my refund (will need to check my cc statement to be sure though).

However they have sent me a message stating that they want to sue me for Internet libel.....
post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foranzi View Post

You are partially correct. They do have their own line of bulbs that they produce, but those are sold as a part # of PLXXXX. We do not purchase that line.

We only purchase their APOG line (part # APOG-XXXX). the APOG line only uses OEM bulbs such as Philips, Osram, Ushio, Phoenix. They also sell actuall Brand boxed OEM for some models as well. APO has become a very reputable replacement company over the past 3 years.


If APOG is as good as you say then you'd proudly put the name in your listing. If you are selling APOG then put the name APOG in the listing. The name APOG is nowhere in the listing but the name JVC is there many times.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxr71 View Post

Hey everyone. This has gotten really dirty. I did get my refund (will need to check my cc statement to be sure though).

However they have sent me a message stating that they want to sue me for Internet libel.

Look at this listing:

http://www.purelandsupply.com/bhl-50...FYoDQAodWVh6cw

Do you see an APOG part number there?

I see a JVC part number. Yet the lamp I received was an APOG lamp with an APOG part number. Is it not deception when they put a JVC part number? Where is the APOG name and part number in the product listing? Am I wrong to think I will get a JVC BHL 5010S when that is the listed art number? This is pure deception and now I am getting legal threats from these people.

There's no case for libel here I'm only stating the truth. If I knew it were an APOG bulb I would have never bought it. And even if I wanted an APOG bulb I would price shop it against other APOG bulbs which cost a lot less than the price at Pureland Supply.

This would not have happened if these people simply stated this is an APOG part no. xxxxx. But they want up put the JVC part number up there and use big words like "original". Well it mislead me and it could mislead others. I want to make it clear that if you order from here you will NOT get a JVC branded BHL 5010S and there's no libel in telling people what they will get. I can't have these kind of people threatening us with legal action every time we wish to inform others what they will actually receive.

False advertising, I'd hit em in small claims for my shipping, stress, time and expenses. Let them have fun sending a non-lawyer to your district for representation.

Costs like 70 bucks here for small claims suites. Don't take that crap from them.
post #26 of 29
For what its worth. I don't believe that JVC actually makes lamps. According to what I have read the lamp housing may be from APO but I believe the lamp itself is an original Philips Brand lamp. I can see how this could be misinterpreted by the buyer as coming from JVC but according to what I have read it mentions JVC as what the lamp fits into. I know some sites say they have OEM compatible lamps and housings for less but the lamps are not Philips. Putting the APO Brand name on a philips or other lamp would be even harder to understand.

Just my two cents

Bohanna
post #27 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post


False advertising, I'd hit em in small claims for my shipping, stress, time and expenses. Let them have fun sending a non-lawyer to your district for representation.

Costs like 70 bucks here for small claims suites. Don't take that crap from them.

It's something I would consider without a doubt. I'm not here to take crap from such sellers. I would have accepted an apology and an effort to put APOG in the listing but they had to threaten me with legal action. I refuse to be gagged.
post #28 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

For what its worth. I don't believe that JVC actually makes lamps. According to what I have read the lamp housing may be from APO but I believe the lamp itself is an original Philips Brand lamp. I can see how this could be misinterpreted by the buyer as coming from JVC but according to what I have read it mentions JVC as what the lamp fits into. I know some sites say they have OEM compatible lamps and housings for less but the lamps are not Philips. Putting the APO Brand name on a philips or other lamp would be even harder to understand.

Just my two cents

Bohanna

I believe you are right. I don't JVC makes those lamps. They have an another manufacturer make them and put the JVC name on it as far as I know. But whatever it is they sell with their name on it is what came with the projector and is what will keep my warranty effective.

I feel that people have the right to choose an aftermarket bulb for lower cost as much as they have the right to know that they are ordering an aftermarket bulb.

If the listing simply said "replacement lamp equivalent for JVC BHL 5010S by APOG with original Philips bulb inside" I would have no issue with it. It's just bad IMHO when the only manufacturer name in the listing is JVC and the only part number is the JVC part number. Even if the part number was "APOG BHL 5010S" I would have known it was an APOG bulb and not an JVC branded bulb.
post #29 of 29
Whatever happened with this, anybody do time? wink.gif
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