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Official Panasonic GT50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 140

post #4171 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriscoCountyJr View Post

That sounds like the normal dithering on plasmas, only noticeable up very close.
I know what dithering is but this is the first time I've seen the dithering pattern constantly and quickly change on a still image. If that's normal for a plasma I won't worry about it.
post #4172 of 9713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post

I know what dithering is but this is the first time I've seen the dithering pattern constantly and quickly change on a still image. If that's normal for a plasma I won't worry about it.

If you have the Pixel Orbiter turned on then maybe that's what you're seeing? If it's on, turn it off and see what you see.
post #4173 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnnyyyy View Post

what is the 3:2 pull down on High Def Junkies Moderator Black Ops settings?

It was not mentioned as it is often greyed out. Especially when using an AVR .
post #4174 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

It was not mentioned as it is often greyed out. Especially when using an AVR .
im using an avr but the setting is for the cable box and 3:2 pull down is not grayed out. any suggestions to turn it on or off
post #4175 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnnyyyy View Post

im using an avr but the setting is for the cable box and 3:2 pull down is not grayed out. any suggestions to turn it on or off

Hello,
What AVR are you using? Mine is greyed out in the Off Setting.
Cheers,
AD
post #4176 of 9713
Hello,
I now see your AVR in your signature. Do you have your Aventage set to upsample everything to 1080p or is it set to Passthrough?
Cheers,
AD
post #4177 of 9713
well since the cable box only goes up to 1080i i believe its passthrough but not 100 percent sure ill check it later when i get home
post #4178 of 9713
I know the Cable Box only outputs 1080i. I output everything at 1080p as the Video Processor in my AVR/SSP is quite good and by doing so it matches the GT50's Native Resolution. I would try 1080p upsampling and see if you like the picture better.
post #4179 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

If you have the Pixel Orbiter turned on then maybe that's what you're seeing? If it's on, turn it off and see what you see.
No, it does it with or without that option on. I'm going to stop by Future Shop and take a look at a display model and see if it does the same.
post #4180 of 9713
Hi...

Just wanted to follow up on this with my own troubles. I too have some issues that perhaps your suggestion would alleviate, but to further elaborate:

1) I get some, what I'd call, "extreme" dithering on video game (NHL 13 on xbox 360) or AppleTV content
2) In addition to the extreme dithering, on NHL 13 I get a "halo" effect, on the players... and "rainbow like ripples" on players numbers, sticks, etc... especially apparent on the moving player or when several players come together, like on a faceoff
3) On all video except bluray (incl appleTV 1080p streaming) I get the same dithering, plus blocky pixelation in dark scenes... worse with fast motion, but easily apparent simply when a (for example) dark grey item shifts against a black background. It's like the black level "brain" can't process the changes fast enough so it dithers & pixelates until it catches up.
4) My TV is EXTREMELY sensitive to HDMI cable quality, only about half of my cables work (monoprice interconnects for example make the problem worse)

All of this has led to a quite unwatchable experience since I mostly game and watch apple TV. The 55GT50 is extremely intollerant it seems.

I've found I'm getting eye fatigue after even 1 to 1.5 hours of viewing... bloodshot and bleary eyed when I got to bed.

I'm sitting about 7-8 feet back of the TV.

None of these issues were present on my ancient Samsung LNS4695.

I've played with settings including custom, THX Cinema (makes it worse) and Game Mode (doesn't fix the game issues).

I've also tried the sources directly hooked up to a new redmere HDMI cable from Monoprice. It helps but doesn't fix.

Am I just not a plasma guy, or can we fix this (before I resort to returning it)

post #4181 of 9713
To clarify, I meant to quote Randy and Avernar. Sorry for the double post... not sure how that happened.
post #4182 of 9713
I haven't had any of the other issues that huckers has. Here's what my screen looks like:



The HD is HDMI 1 from the input switch menu at the top centre of the screen..
post #4183 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

I know the Cable Box only outputs 1080i. I output everything at 1080p as the Video Processor in my AVR/SSP is quite good and by doing so it matches the GT50's Native Resolution. I would try 1080p upsampling and see if you like the picture better.
i tried the 1080 processing looks the same to me
post #4184 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnnyyyy View Post

i tried the 1080 processing looks the same to me

Hello,
The GT50 has excellent on board Video Processing. Regardless of whether an AVR/SSP/Video Processor or connecting directly to the TV the GT50 will upsample all sub 1080p material to its Native Resolution. TV's seem to have gotten much better as in the past there were often advantages to feeding an HDTV its Native Resolution where there was no processing being done.
Cheers,
AD
post #4185 of 9713
just wondering if you can post the link on black ops setting from high def junkies forum i know you posted the setting but if you can post the link as well thatll be great
post #4186 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by huckers View Post

Hi...
Just wanted to follow up on this with my own troubles. I too have some issues that perhaps your suggestion would alleviate, but to further elaborate:
1) I get some, what I'd call, "extreme" dithering on video game (NHL 13 on xbox 360) or AppleTV content
2) In addition to the extreme dithering, on NHL 13 I get a "halo" effect, on the players... and "rainbow like ripples" on players numbers, sticks, etc... especially apparent on the moving player or when several players come together, like on a faceoff
3) On all video except bluray (incl appleTV 1080p streaming) I get the same dithering, plus blocky pixelation in dark scenes... worse with fast motion, but easily apparent simply when a (for example) dark grey item shifts against a black background. It's like the black level "brain" can't process the changes fast enough so it dithers & pixelates until it catches up.
4) My TV is EXTREMELY sensitive to HDMI cable quality, only about half of my cables work (monoprice interconnects for example make the problem worse)
All of this has led to a quite unwatchable experience since I mostly game and watch apple TV. The 55GT50 is extremely intollerant it seems.
I've found I'm getting eye fatigue after even 1 to 1.5 hours of viewing... bloodshot and bleary eyed when I got to bed.
I'm sitting about 7-8 feet back of the TV.
None of these issues were present on my ancient Samsung LNS4695.
I've played with settings including custom, THX Cinema (makes it worse) and Game Mode (doesn't fix the game issues).
I've also tried the sources directly hooked up to a new redmere HDMI cable from Monoprice. It helps but doesn't fix.
Am I just not a plasma guy, or can we fix this (before I resort to returning it)

These flash / distorted ripples glitches is caused by Motion Smoother, set it off to see.
Any picture enhancer / noise reduction options / processing etc. will have side effects / glitches, turn all off if you want 'pure' picture.

Pixel noise grain dither is normal plasma technique.
post #4187 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

... The GT50 has excellent on board Video Processing. ...
The processing is certainly better than my old Samsung 720p DLP, but it pales in comparison to my OPPO BDP-93. The OPPO simply blows it away when streaming via DLNA.
post #4188 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post

I haven't had any of the other issues that huckers has. Here's what my screen looks like:

The HD is HDMI 1 from the input switch menu at the top centre of the screen..

Good closeup of the Pixel noise grain in the 'black' background!
post #4189 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnnyyyy View Post

just wondering if you can post the link on black ops setting from high def junkies forum i know you posted the setting but if you can post the link as well thatll be great

Hello,
Links to HDJ are not permitted or I would have as I did with the Cnet Settings. I copied Black Ops settings verbatim.
Cheers,
AD
post #4190 of 9713
okay i am a memeber of HDJ and try to search for it but i couldnt find it. also have you tried out any of the other setting by chad b,dnice, or kevin miller
post #4191 of 9713
Good test to see if you have any IR, the yellow screen of the SW Airlines commercial. It shows IR much better than white screens. I have some from Madden 13's menu screen. But I don't notice it while watching content unless I am looking for it. Plus it always goes away. CNN Live from watching Sandy coverage was the most annoying and showed up the fastest, it seems. I am much more aware now how some networks like Showtime may have an icon, but they have make it barely noticeable. Everyone needs to do that to reduce IR.
post #4192 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hnnyyyy View Post

okay i am a memeber of HDJ and try to search for it but i couldnt find it. also have you tried out any of the other setting by chad b,dnice, or kevin miller

While I think either D-Nice or Chad did offer some settings for the ST50, there have been none posted for the GT50. In addition, those who have had their GT50's ISF Calibrated have not shared it as I believe the Calibrator's frown upon the practice of sharing them online and I would also guess some who spend the $300 on up for it do not want to post them as well.

Black Ops Settings are right there on the GT50 Thread I believe one page before the last page. After entering them in, I popped in Avia and the Black Level, Color, etc were spot on.
post #4193 of 9713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post

I haven't had any of the other issues that huckers has. Here's what my screen looks like:

The HD is HDMI 1 from the input switch menu at the top centre of the screen..

I can't believe i actually tested this but here's what i just tried on my 50GT50:

I switched the TV to a blank HDMI input so the screen is all black.

I got my magnifying glass ready in my right hand and held my remote in my left hand, brought up the Picture menu and highlighted the Picture Mode setting and toggled into Standard mode.

I held the magnifying glass two inches from the Menu logo at the upper left until things were in focus and i could easily see the green pixel noise rapidly dancing all over the place.

It's extreme in Standard mode, so without moving the magnifying glass i toggled to Cinema mode and the dancing pixels stopped moving completely (leaving green vertical strings of pixels). In THX Cinema mode they start moving a bit, Vivid is almost as bad as Standard, and toggling through the other picture modes changes the "severity" of the effect.

Then i tried the same tests while watching Good Morning America and during darker scenes it's similar to the blank input test but not as severe, but with lighter content the effect is greatly reduced.

Then i tried the same tests on my old PX50U from 2005 and it does pretty much the same thing, only the pixels are larger. I can still kinda see this effect with the naked eye when i'm a foot or two from the screen if i squint, but beyond that it's completely invisible (and i have very acute vision). I'd say what you're seeing is normal. I wonder if this is what normal Plasma dithering looks like??
Edited by RandyWalters - 12/1/12 at 11:20am
post #4194 of 9713
hey guys I am going to bb tommrow to return a led lg 7600 and I can't take the bleeding so am looking at plasmas, But after reading this forum it seems like u trade bleeding for buzzing and graining is this correct, I would hate to buy a plasma only to have more issues. Also I am looking at 3 tvs the gt st and the samsung 7000 any recomendations would be great ty
post #4195 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsniper7 View Post

hey guys I am going to bb tommrow to return a led lg 7600 and I can't take the bleeding so am looking at plasmas, But after reading this forum it seems like u trade bleeding for buzzing and graining is this correct, I would hate to buy a plasma only to have more issues. Also I am looking at 3 tvs the gt st and the samsung 7000 any recomendations would be great ty


I have no buzz and don't see any issues with grain. I got the GT over the ST because of the 4 HDMI and THX picture presets. The dual processor is nice for apps such as NetFlix, Amazon and Hulu Plus, very fast plus it multitasks where the ST doesn't. Don't regret it at all, the picture is simply awesome.
post #4196 of 9713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsniper7 View Post

hey guys I am going to bb tommrow to return a led lg 7600 and I can't take the bleeding so am looking at plasmas, But after reading this forum it seems like u trade bleeding for buzzing and graining is this correct, I would hate to buy a plasma only to have more issues.
No this is not correct. If you get any TV with any of these issues it's defective and needs to be returned. The vast majority of us do not have these issues on our TVs so don't let a relatively small number of people posting problems give the impression that the whole lineup is affected. These defects have been occurring every year ever since Plasma TVs appeared and on every brand so if you get one that does this, return it.
post #4197 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

While I think either D-Nice or Chad did offer some settings for the ST50, there have been none posted for the GT50. In addition, those who have had their GT50's ISF Calibrated have not shared it as I believe the Calibrator's frown upon the practice of sharing them online and I would also guess some who spend the $300 on up for it do not want to post them as well.
Black Ops Settings are right there on the GT50 Thread I believe one page before the last page. After entering them in, I popped in Avia and the Black Level, Color, etc were spot on.
I also copied Black Ops "Nite Settings" on my 60GT50 and man I must say the picture results are awesome!
post #4198 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post

I haven't had any of the other issues that huckers has. Here's what my screen looks like:

The HD is HDMI 1 from the input switch menu at the top centre of the screen..

This is what mine looks like. The background is completely uniform. The magnification of the photo shows the pixel pattern but to my eyes, all I see is dim blue.

Have you connected a device to the input and calibrated it ? If you haven't then don't be surprised if you see nothing but low level noise. Its not exactly the same but its somewhat similar to setting the TV to a blank channel and looking at "snow".

From the intense saturation of the white letters, I'd guess you are way off in brightness/contrast/screen level. If you look at the right side of your H you can can see "blooming" extending 2 full pixels toward the D. In mine, this only extends through 2/3 of a single rgb block. I think your "problem" is just set up.

post #4199 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsniper7 View Post

hey guys I am going to bb tommrow to return a led lg 7600 and I can't take the bleeding so am looking at plasmas, But after reading this forum it seems like u trade bleeding for buzzing and graining is this correct, I would hate to buy a plasma only to have more issues. Also I am looking at 3 tvs the gt st and the samsung 7000 any recomendations would be great ty

I returned a LM7600 for a variety of PQ issues. Best decision I ever made biggrin.gif You will loose daytime brightness but you will gain evening bliss with the higher contrast ratio and much deeper black level on any of your 3 choices. As you are seeing first hand the 9,000,000 : 1 dynamic contrast ratio of the 7600 is useless marketing hype. What really counts is the absolute contrast ratio and plasma wins this battle hands down because of the deep black level. LED/LCD manufacturers don't list this value because it sucks so bad.

My GT50 is buzz free and has no "graining" beyond 3 feet. If you plan on sitting 3-5 away from the set then you will see all the flaws in the video signal and all the limitations of plasma technology but if you are at at a normal viewing distance with a calibrated set, the PQ will be excellent.

The ST and GT will give a comparable picture after you set them up. The GT has some extra features which you may not need or may not be able to live without. The 7000 is a nice set also but there are some trade-offs. The 7000 is more prone to buzz and/or whine and suffer from brightness fluxioations and doesn't have as deep of black level. The video processing/scaling on the 7000 does a better job on low res signals, the image driver does less dithering, and there appears to be less threat of image retention.

Panasonic and Samsung both have supporters and haters; its going to be hard to get an unbiased opinion in these types of groups. Either way, you are making a step up in PQ from the 7600.

On a final note, don't be disappointed at the store when you see the plasma sets look dull and dark compared to the LED sets. In your house a plasma set will look awesome. LED/LCD will look better in a bright room but plasma will look better in a dimly lit room and MUCH better in a dark room.
post #4200 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post

This is what mine looks like. The background is completely uniform. The magnification of the photo shows the pixel pattern but to my eyes, all I see is dim blue.
Have you connected a device to the input and calibrated it ? If you haven't then don't be surprised if you see nothing but low level noise. Its not exactly the same but its somewhat similar to setting the TV to a blank channel and looking at "snow".
From the intense saturation of the white letters, I'd guess you are way off in brightness/contrast/screen level. If you look at the right side of your H you can can see "blooming" extending 2 full pixels toward the D. In mine, this only extends through 2/3 of a single rgb block. I think your "problem" is just set up.
Most of that bloom is because the iPhone camera did the AE on the dark spot. I haven't calibrated it yet (going to be done professionally in two weeks) but I set the contrast/brightness down and it's still visible. With or without a source it's the same.

Here's some shots with a DSLR:



Open each in a different browser tab and switch between them to see the pattern change.

I checked the store demo unit and it does the same thing.
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