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Official Panasonic GT50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 167

post #4981 of 9713
Well I went to best buy to check again the difference between the 60" and 65". They had a VT 65" and GT 60" on display right next to eachother and a GT 55" above. The difference between the 65" and 60" wasnt worth the money IMO, especially $600, but the 65" was nice that's for sure. I didn't notice much of a difference between the VT and GT to suffice the price difference either. I spent an hour looking at the TVs and some of the Samsung LCD LEDs on display as well(the 8000 series were amazing by the way). They had The Dark Knight in the bluray player while I was there, which I love to watch on my Pioneer Plasma. The GT 60 performed amazingly as well as the VT of course. But towards the end of looking at them the GT had "burn in" across the middle and bottom. The Best Buy guy(who seemed extremely knowledgable actually) noticed it before I did and pointed it out. Keep in mind he is a avid Panasonic and Plasma fan. Also there was graininess to the picture, which he said was the way they actually filmed The Dark Knight and not to worry about it. But I noticed it with another preview bluray I put in as well.

My thoughts are,

1. Does Panasonic honor their warranty when bought from Amazon? I can save hundreds by ordering through Amazon as opposed to buying from Best Buy.

2. I am really concerned about "burn in" when I wasn't before after my experience at Best Buy. Especially since I will use this TV for gaming as well as TV and Movies.

3. The graininess was horrible and very discouraging, I do not know why it happened, but didn't leave me feeling great about purchasing one. I did not see it when I first got there with the preview bluray, but with The Dark Knight I did, and then swapped back to preview bluray and it was still there.

Anyways, these are my thoughts and now debating between attemping to try the GT60 or try a Samsung LCD LED since I already have an amazing plasma.
post #4982 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbowash View Post

1. Does Panasonic honor their warranty when bought from Amazon? I can save hundreds by ordering through Amazon as opposed to buying from Best Buy.

I think Best Buy is still price matching with Amazon until around January 3rd or something like that if paying sales tax makes buying it from a store more comfortable for you. I did it mostly because I didn't want wait for delivery. I also drove to the Best Buy in Deleware since there is no sales tax there.
post #4983 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbowash View Post

... My thoughts are,
1. Does Panasonic honor their warranty when bought from Amazon? I can save hundreds by ordering through Amazon as opposed to buying from Best Buy.
2. I am really concerned about "burn in" when I wasn't before after my experience at Best Buy. Especially since I will use this TV for gaming as well as TV and Movies.
3. The graininess was horrible and very discouraging, I do not know why it happened, but didn't leave me feeling great about purchasing one. I did not see it when I first got there with the preview bluray, but with The Dark Knight I did, and then swapped back to preview bluray and it was still there.
Anyways, these are my thoughts and now debating between attemping to try the GT60 or try a Samsung LCD LED since I already have an amazing plasma.

If you already have a set that you are happy with why are looking for anything else?

1. Yes, Amazon is an authorized retailer. Amazon is the largest retailer in North America. Is there some reason you think they are less credible than one of the soon to be bankrupt stores ?

2. If you plan on doing a lot of fixed display gaming you should go for the LCD. Since you are coming from the Elite plasma world, you will just have to get used to the dark grey "black level" and poor off axis viewing and possibly headlights and non-uniform lighting. You will gain piece-of-mind and a brighter display.

3. The only time I see "graininess" on my set is when it's part of the video image, when the video is from an old noisy source, or when the panel intensity is too high and I'm too close to the screen.
post #4984 of 9713
Question for the GT50 owners; do you notice the "oil painting" affect on 720p sources and poor antenna/cable picture quality from the coaxial connection like the ST50 suffers from? Or is Panasonic using better upscaling and tuner chips in their more expensive models? Thanks!
post #4985 of 9713
To turbowash (and others) about burn-in:

I've done some fairly long gaming sessions on my GT50 and the only thing you need to worry about is white on black hud stuff.

I played a game for 3 hours with a static white text on a black background logo on it (pretty much a worse case scenario) and did get IR but it did eventually go away (it took a month or 2 though). I've done longer sessions with some other colors and haven't had issues.

I use the auto off timer and if I ever get to the point where it's going to shut off during a gaming session and I want to keep playing I do a quick IR check and if something looks odd I'll usually switch to my LCD monitor (If I want to keep playing the same game).

I've put it through a lot playing some games, while still trying to prevent IR, and haven't had anything permanent.

I wouldn't worry about it and you may want to do what I did and do some trial and error to see how long you can play before you start seeing IR/how long it takes to go away and play accordingly.

I've learned what has a tendency to cause IR and how to help reduce it as much as possible.

IR isn't really an issue for me anymore, which is nice because I was worried about it at first but not really anymore.
post #4986 of 9713
I'm pretty happy with my 50GT50.

I just started to use the built-in media player with my qnap twonky server. Works pretty fine.
One thing bothers me though. The media player ignores subtitle styling and shows every subtitle as plain white text with a very thin black border.
Watching bright content I can hardly read the subtitle.

I can't find a subtitle font or style option in the TV menues.

Is there a workaround?
post #4987 of 9713
Ok now I'm reading these latest posts and I'm concerned. I bought my GT50 a week ago. I've been running it 24/7 either with slides to have something on the screen or full screen Netflix shows. I asked the question about gaming when I first got it and someone replied that I would be ok as long as I don't game for two hours in my first 100 hours. I tried gaming for 15 minutes during that time and I had IR that lasted 6 hours. After that, I decided to wait until after the 100 to try again. I'm now at 120 hours or so and I'd like to get back start using the TV the way I want to use it but now posters are telling gamers to "get an LCD" or making comments about IR for 2 months after a 3 hour session. I really like this TV but I'm starting to question whether I want it to dictate how I can use it and for how long. I never had to worry about that stuff on my last TV. There may be days when I want to game for 5 hours. Should I return this thing now and maybe go for the Panasonic WT50? Before I bought this set, I was under the impression that as long as I wasn't abusing it by being on a static image for a week I would be ok but now just 3 hours is enough to retain the image for months!? Seroiusly? Why does this TV even have a game mode if that's the case?
post #4988 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Question for the GT50 owners; do you notice the "oil painting" affect on 720p sources and poor antenna/cable picture quality from the coaxial connection like the ST50 suffers from? Or is Panasonic using better upscaling and tuner chips in their more expensive models? Thanks!

I don't think there is any difference in the tuner or GPU within these sets. That being said, I use the RF input for all my broadcast TV and think it looks fine. 480i/p scale just fine as does 1080i. There is a definite issue with 720p but it has nothing to do with the RF input. 720p looks substandard regardless of the input source. If you are back far enough it's not visible (I'm about 12 feet back from a 60 inch). Many people are closer than this.

All of my sources except OTA TV are pre-scaled to 1080p. So all I have are 2 OTA channels at 720p. At my viewing distance, they look fine but if I were closer I would have to add a solution for OTA s well.

It's a definite weakness of the xT50 line and has been discussed here many times. I can't tell you that the ST50 doesn't have additional issues but I think what you are talking about is general within the entire line.
post #4989 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASiani View Post

Ok now I'm reading these latest posts and I'm concerned. I bought my GT50 a week ago. I've been running it 24/7 either with slides to have something on the screen or full screen Netflix shows. I asked the question about gaming when I first got it and someone replied that I would be ok as long as I don't game for two hours in my first 100 hours. I tried gaming for 15 minutes during that time and I had IR that lasted 6 hours. After that, I decided to wait until after the 100 to try again. I'm now at 120 hours or so and I'd like to get back start using the TV the way I want to use it but now posters are telling gamers to "get an LCD" or making comments about IR for 2 months after a 3 hour session. I really like this TV but I'm starting to question whether I want it to dictate how I can use it and for how long. I never had to worry about that stuff on my last TV. There may be days when I want to game for 5 hours. Should I return this thing now and maybe go for the Panasonic WT50? Before I bought this set, I was under the impression that as long as I wasn't abusing it by being on a static image for a week I would be ok but now just 3 hours is enough to retain the image for months!? Seroiusly? Why does this TV even have a game mode if that's the case?

The 100 hours is not a universal cut off for anything. It's just a widely repeated time frame during which most new PDP's will start to achieve a more stable phosphor output that is closer to how they will look at 1000 hours than they did at 1 hour. During that period there is a greater tendency for uneven phosphor wear and probably a greater tendency for IR since the brightness is also a little higher. 100 hours is kinda a minimum. The actual time is probably closer to 200 - 400 hours.

All that aside, a phosphor based display is always at risk for IR. This is why I keep suggesting that people who plan on gaming consider the pro's and con's of LCD. Especially in view of the undeniable occurrences of IR on these sets. Permanent or not, IR that lasts 2 hours or 2 months is not something I would be willing to live with. If I had seen any indications of IR on my set from what I planned on using for, I would have returned it without hesitation. I'm very glad I have never seen even a hint of IR from what I look at because I really like the PQ on this set and I know how nasty the LCD I tried was.

The TV has a game mode for the convenience of the user. The game mode won't create IR, the games played on it may. The games may create IR on any of the modes. 5 hours is a long time to do anything, especially gaming on a PDP. If this is really going to be the normal use for the set, I would seriously look at other options. If for no other reason the year is almost over and the xT-70's will probably be available in a few months.
post #4990 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post

xT-70's will probably be available in a few months.
What are xT-70s?
post #4991 of 9713
Thanks for the input. 5 hours of gaming is an extreme example of my normal use but certainly not unheard of. I guess I'll have to think hard over the next couple of weeks to see if this is going to be a problem for me. I'm really liking this set and I'm not impressed at all with my current LCD choices in the same price range. One thing I can't stand though is time limits and I feel like my usage might be regulated by them.
post #4992 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tvsonecup View Post

What are xT-70s?

2011 models were the xT-30
2012 models were the xT-50 (where the x = S or G or V)
2013 models MAY BE the xT-70 series
post #4993 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASiani View Post

Thanks for the input. 5 hours of gaming is an extreme example of my normal use but certainly not unheard of. I guess I'll have to think hard over the next couple of weeks to see if this is going to be a problem for me. I'm really liking this set and I'm not impressed at all with my current LCD choices in the same price range. One thing I can't stand though is time limits and I feel like my usage might be regulated by them.
5hrs of gaming on a plasma is a non-issue. The key to avoiding burn-in is simply watching a variety of content. You could game constantly on a plasma as long as it wasn't the same game all the time. But alternatively, if your plasma spent 90% of its powered-on time displaying Call of Duty for six weeks, then yeah you'd probably get burn-in from the HUD.

If you naturally alternate between gaming and watching TV, and you're not addicted to a single game or TV network, then your usage won't need to be regulated whatsoever.
post #4994 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post

I don't think there is any difference in the tuner or GPU within these sets. That being said, I use the RF input for all my broadcast TV and think it looks fine. 480i/p scale just fine as does 1080i. There is a definite issue with 720p but it has nothing to do with the RF input. 720p looks substandard regardless of the input source. If you are back far enough it's not visible (I'm about 12 feet back from a 60 inch). Many people are closer than this.
All of my sources except OTA TV are pre-scaled to 1080p. So all I have are 2 OTA channels at 720p. At my viewing distance, they look fine but if I were closer I would have to add a solution for OTA s well.
It's a definite weakness of the xT50 line and has been discussed here many times. I can't tell you that the ST50 doesn't have additional issues but I think what you are talking about is general within the entire line.
Thanks for the reply! I'm definitely sitting far closer than you (6.5ft from a 50") so the poor broadcast quality and 720p upscaling is far more apparent. In this regard, my ST50 is a huge downgrade from my Samsung B650 plasma; the ST50 shows dramatically more compression artifacts in broadcasts, 1080i material looks like 720p and 720p material looks like SD. My only other 720p source is a 2nd generation Apple TV; the Samsung was so good at upscaling that 720p content was virtually indistinguishable from 1080 content, but the "oil painting" affect the ST50 applies just makes everything on the Apple TV look horrendous. I guess the best solution would be to sell the Apple TV and replace it with the 3rd generation 1080p model.
post #4995 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

5hrs of gaming on a plasma is a non-issue. The key to avoiding burn-in is simply watching a variety of content. You could game constantly on a plasma as long as it wasn't the same game all the time. But alternatively, if your plasma spent 90% of its powered-on time displaying Call of Duty for six weeks, then yeah you'd probably get burn-in from the HUD.
If you naturally alternate between gaming and watching TV, and you're not addicted to a single game or TV network, then your usage won't need to be regulated whatsoever.

Thank you so much. I really really want this set to work out for me. This is my first plasma and I put on the Dark Knight for a little last night and there were moments where I couldn't see where the black bars stopped and the bezel began....I was very excited by that being and LCD owner for so long. Normally, Netflix takes up around 80% of my TV use so I'm hoping for the best that wanting to get lost in the occassional game isn't going to rob me of this beautiful plasma picture experience.
post #4996 of 9713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post


2011 models were the xT-30
2012 models were the xT-50 (where the x = S or G or V)
2013 models MAY BE the xT-70 series

Actually the 2013 will be 60 series, not 70. The other day Panasonic's webmaster accidentally had their upcoming TC-P60S60 model up on their site for a day or so before AVJ became aware of it and had it taken down. And AVJ has already made comments about the upcoming VT60 series over at HDJ.
post #4997 of 9713
My 55gt50 just came in yesterday and I've been really impressed so far. My g25 went upstairs and right out of the box the gt50 is richer, more pop, less grain, with much better sense of depth and an overall cleaner, smoother picture. I'm using thx cinema and using spears and munsil lowered brightness to 48 and sharpness down to 30 and its gorgeous. No buzzing or line bleed. Very very very happy. Amazon/CEVA was fantastic, at first CEVA wanted to delay my shipment until today but I called amazon, the lady called CEVA on the line and made them deliver it on y scheduled date yesterday, and gave me $30 for the troubles. CEVA had two guys and they were awesome. Very very very happy. I'm using an oppo 103 and have my Comcast routed to it to output 1080p and utilize the oppo's awesome video chip, as well as outputting 4:4:4 so I can use 1080p source direct.

I ordered this past Sunday and have used the time to read this thread from the beginning, I am currently on pg 137 smile.gif you guys sure are funny. I do have a question about whether the top/bottom black bars are ok during the initial 100 hours burn in, or if I should be zooming in there as well like with 4:3 material. Thanks!
post #4998 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post


2011 models were the xT-30
2012 models were the xT-50 (where the x = S or G or V)
2013 models MAY BE the xT-70 series

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Actually the 2013 will be 60 series, not 70. The other day Panasonic's webmaster accidentally had their upcoming TC-P60S60 model up on their site for a day or so before AVJ became aware of it and had it taken down. And AVJ has already made comments about the upcoming VT60 series over at HDJ.
Thanks for the info. Any reason to wait for the 2013 models? I mean, does anyone(outside of Panasonic insiders) know if they'll be less likely to buzz, be prone to IR, etc. I can't imagine significant PQ improvements.
post #4999 of 9713
4 is a bad luck number for the Japanese, which is why 40 was skipped.
post #5000 of 9713
I applied D-Nice's settings last night. It looks so much better than Cnet's. I did increase brightness slightly though- personal preference.
post #5001 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recstar24 View Post

I'm using an oppo 103 and have my Comcast routed to it to output 1080p and utilize the oppo's awesome video chip, as well as outputting 4:4:4 so I can use 1080p source direct.

Which Comcast box do you have? I wasn't aware that Comcast was outputting 1080p. I thought they only sent at most 1080i? Plus the setting on my box only goes to 1080i, there is no 1080p setting on the cable box when I go into the service menu.
post #5002 of 9713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

I applied D-Nice's settings last night. It looks so much better than Cnet's. I did increase brightness slightly though- personal preference.

Did you use his ST50 settings?

Have you tried Black Ops' settings by any chance? I'm currently using a slightly modified version of them and i like it a lot.
post #5003 of 9713
I have the rng200n which i believe is the Motorola dcx3400 rebranded. I have it connected to the oppo 103, which can operate as an upscaler/up converter of sorts, and the oppo 103 is set to output 1080p. The QDEO chip is nice and its processing appears to have a similar effect to what I've read of a darbee, cleans up the picture and seems to bring out a little more detail.
post #5004 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Did you use his ST50 settings?
Have you tried Black Ops' settings by any chance? I'm currently using a slightly modified version of them and i like it a lot.

What settings did you modify for your personal taste?
post #5005 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASiani View Post

Ok now I'm reading these latest posts and I'm concerned. I bought my GT50 a week ago. I've been running it 24/7 either with slides to have something on the screen or full screen Netflix shows. I asked the question about gaming when I first got it and someone replied that I would be ok as long as I don't game for two hours in my first 100 hours. I tried gaming for 15 minutes during that time and I had IR that lasted 6 hours. After that, I decided to wait until after the 100 to try again. I'm now at 120 hours or so and I'd like to get back start using the TV the way I want to use it but now posters are telling gamers to "get an LCD" or making comments about IR for 2 months after a 3 hour session. I really like this TV but I'm starting to question whether I want it to dictate how I can use it and for how long. I never had to worry about that stuff on my last TV. There may be days when I want to game for 5 hours. Should I return this thing now and maybe go for the Panasonic WT50? Before I bought this set, I was under the impression that as long as I wasn't abusing it by being on a static image for a week I would be ok but now just 3 hours is enough to retain the image for months!? Seroiusly? Why does this TV even have a game mode if that's the case?

In 2011 with the GT30 series, panasonic went from the best at avoiding image retention to the worst. My panasonic tc-p50gt30 has constant image retention even with 500+ hours. My samsung of the same vintage has never shown any. Cnet's accidental burn in test confirms this anecdotal bservation.
post #5006 of 9713
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

In 2011 with the GT30 series, panasonic went from the best at avoiding image retention to the worst. My panasonic tc-p50gt30 has constant image retention even with 500+ hours. My samsung of the same vintage has never shown any. Cnet's accidental burn in test confirms this anecdotal bservation.

CNet only had one example. If they had the GT50 that i've been watching for the past 5 months that wouldn't have happened to them. Mine is very resistant to IR even when watching hours of news and sports and Speed channel, and what little IR i get goes away very quickly after switching to other content. There are tons of 2012 owners here who are not having problems with IR.

You can't paint the whole 2012 lineup with such a wide brush based on one possibly defective or out-of-spec example.
post #5007 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post

The 100 hours is not a universal cut off for anything. It's just a widely repeated time frame during which most new PDP's will start to achieve a more stable phosphor output that is closer to how they will look at 1000 hours than they did at 1 hour. During that period there is a greater tendency for uneven phosphor wear and probably a greater tendency for IR since the brightness is also a little higher. 100 hours is kinda a minimum. The actual time is probably closer to 200 - 400 hours.
All that aside, a phosphor based display is always at risk for IR. This is why I keep suggesting that people who plan on gaming consider the pro's and con's of LCD. Especially in view of the undeniable occurrences of IR on these sets. Permanent or not, IR that lasts 2 hours or 2 months is not something I would be willing to live with. If I had seen any indications of IR on my set from what I planned on using for, I would have returned it without hesitation. I'm very glad I have never seen even a hint of IR from what I look at because I really like the PQ on this set and I know how nasty the LCD I tried was.
The TV has a game mode for the convenience of the user. The game mode won't create IR, the games played on it may. The games may create IR on any of the modes. 5 hours is a long time to do anything, especially gaming on a PDP. If this is really going to be the normal use for the set, I would seriously look at other options. If for no other reason the year is almost over and the xT-70's will probably be available in a few months.
First of all how is he using game mode. A lot of people tend to use these modes as is. Contrast is at max. That is the reason you're getting IR along with all the other settings that are crazy high. Plasmas really are not meant for people that don't understand them. This is why they get a bad rep. Drop the contrast to less than 60 and the sharpness along with the brightness. There should be no problem what so ever. I have a 65VT30 and game for hours and a 55GT50 and have no IR issues. I also broke them in for 250-400 each. I'm convinced its not the lack of break in that's giving people IR. it's the settings turned up to max that is. Ridiculous! There's no need for any TV to ever be turned up to max.
post #5008 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post

If you already have a set that you are happy with why are looking for anything else?
1. Yes, Amazon is an authorized retailer. Amazon is the largest retailer in North America. Is there some reason you think they are less credible than one of the soon to be bankrupt stores ?
2. If you plan on doing a lot of fixed display gaming you should go for the LCD. Since you are coming from the Elite plasma world, you will just have to get used to the dark grey "black level" and poor off axis viewing and possibly headlights and non-uniform lighting. You will gain piece-of-mind and a brighter display.
3. The only time I see "graininess" on my set is when it's part of the video image, when the video is from an old noisy source, or when the panel intensity is too high and I'm too close to the screen.

I am very happy with my pioneer plasma, but with my family growing it is time to add a 2nd TV. The problem I have with the LCD LEDs is the "fake" look they provide, I guess from being so bright? Hard to describe...

I did call Panasonic and told them my concerns and the performance while at Best Buy. The rep said that best buy will take the TV, throw it on shelf and select brightest setting and let it go all day and night with the same ol bluray. He assured me I wouldn't have any problems, especially with the technology the TV has to counter IR/burn in, but at the sametime to follow the break in procedure. He mentioned you do not have to be exact at 100 or 200 hours with it, but that if you pay attention to what your doing for the first 100ish hours you will be fine. He also confirmed that the 1 year manufactures warranty is held up regardless and that extended warranty is an option of course.
post #5009 of 9713
Is letterbox content ok during the initial break in period? Or should I approach it like you would 4:3 content?
post #5010 of 9713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

First of all how is he using game mode. A lot of people tend to use these modes as is. Contrast is at max. That is the reason you're getting IR along with all the other settings that are crazy high. Plasmas really are not meant for people that don't understand them. This is why they get a bad rep. Drop the contrast to less than 60 and the sharpness along with the brightness. There should be no problem what so ever. I have a 65VT30 and game for hours and a 55GT50 and have no IR issues. I also broke them in for 250-400 each. I'm convinced its not the lack of break in that's giving people IR. it's the settings turned up to max that is. Ridiculous! There's no need for any TV to ever be turned up to max.

I finally made it over 100 hours this morning and tried gaming with the most recent Black Ops settings in custom mode except while gaming I decided to turn the contrast down to 60 and the brightness to 30. I only gamed for 10 minutes but the IR from the HUD lasted for a couple hours afterwards. I'm still hoping it won't always be that way as this set breaks in further though
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