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Official Panasonic GT50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 205

post #6121 of 9042
2/2/13 at 8:48am
I had the 60GT50 for 2 weeks. Decided that the 60Hz flickering at high contrast and the rainbow I can see were too annoying. I returned the GT50 yesterday.

When I returned to Bestbuy, I told them I can see rainbow and flickering but I think the set is normal. They opened the box, plugged the TV and turned it on. They told me "We're so sorry. This set is defective b/c of too much flickering.". They keep apologizing for the trouble I went through. I was a bit surprised to hear they said it's "defective" but I had a nice shopping experience.

Now I have a LED TV - no flickering, no rainbow. But it has clouding, bad viewing angles, the black wasn't as good as GT50. I am missing the picture quality of GT50. I gave it a few days to see if I can live with the rainbow. It started when my peripheral vision was looking the caption on the movie and now I can see rainbow at high contrast scene. When seeing that, it distract my attention from normal viewing and my eyes become tired overtime. After 100 hours burn-in, I gave up.

I have 90 days with the LED TV. At the end I'd have to decide which evil I can live with.
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post #6122 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:04am
which led tv did you get? im just curious because im getting either the gt50 or the led samsung un60es7100.
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post #6123 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by parodielin View Post

I had the 60GT50 for 2 weeks. Decided that the 60Hz flickering at high contrast and the rainbow I can see were too annoying. I returned the GT50 yesterday.

When I returned to Bestbuy, I told them I can see rainbow and flickering but I think the set is normal. They opened the box, plugged the TV and turned it on. They told me "We're so sorry. This set is defective b/c of too much flickering.". They keep apologizing for the trouble I went through. I was a bit surprised to hear they said it's "defective" but I had a nice shopping experience.

Now I have a LED TV - no flickering, no rainbow. But it has clouding, bad viewing angles, the black wasn't as good as GT50. I am missing the picture quality of GT50. I gave it a few days to see if I can live with the rainbow. It started when my peripheral vision was looking the caption on the movie and now I can see rainbow at high contrast scene. When seeing that, it distract my attention from normal viewing and my eyes become tired overtime. After 100 hours burn-in, I gave up.

I have 90 days with the LED TV. At the end I'd have to decide which evil I can live with.

It will take your brain longer than 2 weeks to adjust to 60 Hz refresh. This is a well documented issue. Some can see it and some can't. I could but just like you I absolutely hated and refused to go back to the POS edge-lit LCD that I had just returned. Within a month, I was OK with my decision but still not completely adjusted. After 6 - 8 weeks I could only see it if I looked for it. Very glad I decided to give it the extra time.

If you are hyper-sensitive, you may never fully adjust. I believe the VT has a 90 Hz refresh rate (check that to be sure) and would probably illiminate the flicker you see. If you stick with LCD, I suggest Samsung. They do a better job with screen uniformity and black level than most of the others. If you have a fat bank-roll, the Sony full array back-lit LCD is a nice set also.

Whatever you do, don't settle for a set plagued with flash lights. If you think you are unhappy now just wait a few months; you will still be unhappy and kicking yourself in the sss for not doing something about it when you had the chance.
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post #6124 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNThorens View Post

..........Some actually run the D-nice slides but I just watched my set in standard mode and changed the channel every so often. No issues here! Got to the first page of this thread and check it out..........lots of great info there.
I actually ran slides using identical procedure on both ST50 and replacement GT50 last month. When running procedure on ST50, I assumed at the time that I would keep it.

My mantra however, is "short-term pain equals long-term gain". wink.gif
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post #6125 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by parodielin View Post

I had the 60GT50 for 2 weeks. Decided that the 60Hz flickering at high contrast and the rainbow I can see were too annoying. I returned the GT50 yesterday.

When I returned to Bestbuy, I told them I can see rainbow and flickering but I think the set is normal. They opened the box, plugged the TV and turned it on. They told me "We're so sorry. This set is defective b/c of too much flickering.". They keep apologizing for the trouble I went through. I was a bit surprised to hear they said it's "defective" but I had a nice shopping experience.

Now I have a LED TV - no flickering, no rainbow. But it has clouding, bad viewing angles, the black wasn't as good as GT50. I am missing the picture quality of GT50. I gave it a few days to see if I can live with the rainbow. It started when my peripheral vision was looking the caption on the movie and now I can see rainbow at high contrast scene. When seeing that, it distract my attention from normal viewing and my eyes become tired overtime. After 100 hours burn-in, I gave up.

I have 90 days with the LED TV. At the end I'd have to decide which evil I can live with.
Interesting post.

I use 48 hz mode continuously when viewing film-based BD. I see no problem at all with flickering in that mode, so it sounds as if you actually had a defective display. I would have exchanged that display for new GT50; if that new display had same problem then I would have exchanged it for another model as you did.

Then again, I have faith in quality of GT50 models. Couldn't see owning anything else. biggrin.gif
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post #6126 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post

.........

Whatever you do, don't settle for a set plagued with flash lights. If you think you are unhappy now just wait a few months; you will still be unhappy and kicking yourself in the sss for not doing something about it when you had the chance.

+1
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post #6127 of 9042
2/2/13 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain- View Post

Interesting post.

I use 48 hz mode continuously when viewing film-based BD. I see no problem at all with flickering in that mode, so it sounds as if you actually had a defective display. I would have exchanged that display for new GT50; if that new display had same problem then I would have exchanged it for another model as you did.

Then again, I have faith in quality of GT50 models. Couldn't see owning anything else. biggrin.gif

It's not from defective circuitry; it's how your brain processes pulse imagery. Some people's brain wiring shows each pulse while others see a continuous image. This effects everyone but the frequency cut off is variable for different people. Flicker fusion occurs around 60 Hz for "many" humans and nearly all by 75 Hz. 48 Hz is well below the limit for nearly everyone. That's why no one uses a 48 Hz default refresh rate; it would make most people call the service department. It is a very simple 2x multiple of the film frame rate of 24 fps which eliminates the need for any pull down which is why they give you the option.

When I tried the 48 Hz mode on the gt50 I found it to be extremely distracting due to flicker.
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post #6128 of 9042
2/2/13 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpollagi View Post

It's not from defective circuitry; it's how your brain processes pulse imagery. Some people's brain wiring shows each pulse while others see a continuous image. This effects everyone but the frequency cut off is variable for different people. Flicker fusion occurs around 60 Hz for "many" humans and nearly all by 75 Hz. 48 Hz is well below the limit for nearly everyone. That's why no one uses a 48 Hz default refresh rate; it would make most people call the service department. It is a very simple 2x multiple of the film frame rate of 24 fps which eliminates the need for any pull down which is why they give you the option.

When I tried the 48 Hz mode on the gt50 I found it to be extremely distracting due to flicker.

interesting
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post #6129 of 9042
2/2/13 at 12:17pm
So some people can watch it at 48hz and NOT see flicker? Weird. Must be an alien or something smile.gif
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post #6130 of 9042
2/2/13 at 12:20pm
tpollagi, I have received my GT50 and I tried to pair it with the Logitech Wireless Speaker Adapter that you recommended http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Speaker-Bluetooth-980-000540/dp/B004VM1T5S/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1359308210&sr=1-4&keywords=bluetooth+music+adapter . Unfortunately I received a message saying the device was not supported. That's too bad because it was a nice little box.

Fortunately I had a GOgroove BlueGate Wireless A2DP Bluetooth Audio Music Receiver in my car that I could use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00727FE5U/ref=wms_ohs_product and it worked perfectly. It paired perfectly and the audio quality is very much acceptable when listening to music or watching movies. Again, I am using an Accuphase E-202 amplifier and Magnepan MMG speakers. In fact I would say the audio is better than running it through my old Hitachi tv and using the analog outputs. So for those looking for an inexpensive alternative to a DAC this work.

All of that said, I would like to purchase a DAC. Hold onto your pants as I explain. My primary music system is an Accuphase C-200 pre-amplifier, Accuphase P-300 amplifier and Magnepan 1.7 speakers. Now this is a pretty decent audio setup and I'm using a very low cost DAC with it right now. Sooo, I would like to get a recommendation for a replacement DAC in the sub-$500 range. Then I will move the inexpensive DAC to the tv system mentioned above.

Thanks
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post #6131 of 9042
2/2/13 at 1:22pm
another question....I noticed this today when I was watching a movie on Netflix, when the picture would change angles, it looked as if the display changed...almost as if the picture was moving. So watching basketball now and it was doing it every angle change and it's a warping effect that immediately makes me nauseous. I noticed the aspect was on JUST, when I switched it to Full, it doesnt appear to do that. Should it be set to FULL? I thought it came set to JUST but I dont know if someone at home changed that. That warping/moving screen is really distracting not to mention gives me instant motion sickness. lol. biggrin.gif
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post #6132 of 9042
2/2/13 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by synistr View Post

another question....I noticed this today when I was watching a movie on Netflix, when the picture would change angles, it looked as if the display changed...almost as if the picture was moving. So watching basketball now and it was doing it every angle change and it's a warping effect that immediately makes me nauseous. I noticed the aspect was on JUST, when I switched it to Full, it doesnt appear to do that. Should it be set to FULL? I thought it came set to JUST but I dont know if someone at home changed that. That warping/moving screen is really distracting not to mention gives me instant motion sickness. lol. biggrin.gif

Just stands for "justified" which is a stretch mode but does not stretch the image evenly. It stretches on the left and right side but not (or less on) the center.
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post #6133 of 9042
2/2/13 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post



Just stands for "justified" which is a stretch mode but does not stretch the image evenly. It stretches on the left and right side but not (or less on) the center.

and being that it does that, thats what gives it that warping effect?
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post #6134 of 9042
2/2/13 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by synistr View Post

and being that it does that, thats what gives it that warping effect?

Yes. JUST is a non-linear stretch mode where the center is stretched a little and stuff stretches even more and more as you move closer to the left and right sides, kinda like a fun-house mirror.
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post #6135 of 9042
2/2/13 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by synistr View Post

another question....I noticed this today when I was watching a movie on Netflix, when the picture would change angles, it looked as if the display changed...almost as if the picture was moving. So watching basketball now and it was doing it every angle change and it's a warping effect that immediately makes me nauseous. I noticed the aspect was on JUST, when I switched it to Full, it doesnt appear to do that. Should it be set to FULL? I thought it came set to JUST but I dont know if someone at home changed that. That warping/moving screen is really distracting not to mention gives me instant motion sickness. lol. biggrin.gif


You should be using FULL all the time unless you are watching SD material or something with side bars. JUST keeps all the pixels active to prevent side image retention from black bars. If you are watching 720p or 1080 sources then run full. You can check with the INFO button on the remote. In the setup>image retention area you can turn on and adjust the gray side bars to help with IR.
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post #6136 of 9042
2/2/13 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post

You should be using FULL all the time unless you are watching SD material or something with side bars. JUST keeps all the pixels active to prevent side image retention from black bars. If you are watching 720p or 1080 sources then run full. You can check with the INFO button on the remote. In the setup>image retention area you can turn on and adjust the gray side bars to help with IR.

gotcha!
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post #6137 of 9042
2/2/13 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by synistr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post

You should be using FULL all the time unless you are watching SD material or something with side bars. JUST keeps all the pixels active to prevent side image retention from black bars. If you are watching 720p or 1080 sources then run full. You can check with the INFO button on the remote. In the setup>image retention area you can turn on and adjust the gray side bars to help with IR.

gotcha!
You only need to do that for a few hundred hours or less. After that, just watching a variety of source materials, full screen no fixed objects, full screen with fixed logos, full screen with other fixed images, black bars either top and bottom, both sides, or black bars on all four sides. Constant variety is your friend. smile.gif
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post #6138 of 9042
2/2/13 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNThorens View Post

You may want to watch your new set in standard mode for several hours before running it in custom mode. HD-Masters settings are great, I am running them, but you should let the set settle in a bit first. Anyway thats what I did and many have stated that here also. Some actually run the D-nice slides but I just watched my set in standard mode and changed the channel every so often. No issues here! Got to the first page of this thread and check it out..........lots of great info there.
can you explain why not to adjust your set right away to break in the panel? i tried watching in standard mode and just cant.
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post #6139 of 9042
2/2/13 at 5:41pm
I personally had my 60GT50 in THX Cinema for the first couple of weeks, until I put in Katz settings. Then moved to BlackOps settings and have now settled with HD-Master's warm2 and 3D settings....I have zero issues. Only time I see minor IR is when I leave the X360/PS3 dashboard on for a few minutes in Game Mode. It goes away while playing a game or normal TV viewing. I do run scroll bars once a week just to be safe wink.gif
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post #6140 of 9042
2/2/13 at 7:16pm
Happy Super Bowl Eve Gents!!!

So my 2nd 60" GT50 was swapped out today. Instead of running slides for 200 hrs like the last one i thought I would just turn it on since the previous panel's picture was fresh in my head. Obviously it's dark out but at first glance the wife and I thought it was much sharper, with greater detail and pop, and less grainy mpeg noise than the first panel. Unfortunately like the first one it too has very faint DSE/vertical banding throughout (Both November 2012 Builds). Some more noticeable bands than the first set. Only noticeable during hockey so far. I might be able to live with it.

I'm wondering if I should even run slides. I never tested the picture on the first panel until I completed the Dnice 200 hr process and wonder if it too looked more exciting prior to slides. Is it possible that running slides on the first panel dulled it out or destabilized pixels causing more grainy pixelation?? Anything I should try different the second time around here? Thanks much
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post #6141 of 9042
2/2/13 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemchine View Post

tpollagi, I have received my GT50 and I tried to pair it with the Logitech Wireless Speaker Adapter that you recommended http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Speaker-Bluetooth-980-000540/dp/B004VM1T5S/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1359308210&sr=1-4&keywords=bluetooth+music+adapter . Unfortunately I received a message saying the device was not supported. That's too bad because it was a nice little box.

... s

Try it again. It will work. I have it and it works perfectly. Seriously, it works. Mine connected on the first try.

Some times Bluetooth devices can be a little finicky to the broadcast - receive timing sequence.
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post #6142 of 9042
2/2/13 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoD80k View Post

Happy Super Bowl Eve Gents!!!

So my 2nd 60" GT50 was swapped out today. Instead of running slides for 200 hrs like the last one i thought I would just turn it on since the previous panel's picture was fresh in my head. Obviously it's dark out but at first glance the wife and I thought it was much sharper, with greater detail and pop, and less grainy mpeg noise than the first panel. Unfortunately like the first one it too has very faint DSE/vertical banding throughout (Both November 2012 Builds). Some more noticeable bands than the first set. Only noticeable during hockey so far. I might be able to live with it.

I'm wondering if I should even run slides. I never tested the picture on the first panel until I completed the Dnice 200 hr process and wonder if it too looked more exciting prior to slides. Is it possible that running slides on the first panel dulled it out or destabilized pixels causing more grainy pixelation?? Anything I should try different the second time around here? Thanks much

The slides won't do anything to degrade your picture quality. You are only supposed to run them for 100 hours though, not that 200 would do any harm, but only 100 is necessary. Of course, the slides should only be used if you wish to use D-Nice's official settings. You can use other peoples settings even if you don't run the slides, but you will get less accurate results, to what degree I can't say for certain. If you like, just break in the set by watching it. You may want to use a slightly lower contrast to limit potential IR, but it's really up to you.
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post #6143 of 9042
2/2/13 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemchine View Post

... All of that said, I would like to purchase a DAC. Hold onto your pants as I explain. My primary music system is an Accuphase C-200 pre-amplifier, Accuphase P-300 amplifier and Magnepan 1.7 speakers. Now this is a pretty decent audio setup and I'm using a very low cost DAC with it right now. Sooo, I would like to get a recommendation for a replacement DAC in the sub-$500 range. Then I will move the inexpensive DAC to the tv system mentioned above.

Thanks

I can't help you with a specific DAC, but you probably will want a unit with Burr-Brown chips. I have not followed the industry for at least 5 years but Burr Brown's were the reference standard for a long time and probably still are. You may actually find a more versatile option is still to replace the amp with a good AV-receiver with BB DAC's on board. The old analog amps are great but unless you use a DAC of comparable quality it won't make any difference. But, you already know that.
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post #6144 of 9042
2/2/13 at 8:48pm
Second day with the new 65GT50 and sadly I am missing my 58" pz850u (sold it to a buddy). The GT50 is more modern looking, has deeper blacks, and better motion resolution as expected... but I am considering returning it for several reasons. First, I have a real "buzzer". If I have volume set lower than 25, I can clearly hear a buzz from 10 feet away when there is a bright image on the screen... and that's with panel brightness set to low. In fact, the buzz can overwhelm the TV volume at a 10 or lower setting. I never heard anything other than a little fan noise from my 850u. Second, the sound quality is really poor (tinny) no matter what audio settings I try. I guess it's a by-product of these ever thinner panels. Lastly, it really bugs me that the image for 16:9 content (and TV set to "Full" wide) comes up almost 1/4" short of the bezel on all sides. Is this normal ? I also noticed that the image shifts intermittently to the point where the gap on one side is even wider. (I'm guessing this is the pixel orbiter). The image on my 850u filled the screen from bezel edge to bezel edge and I never noticed any pixel orbiting. I think I can tolerate the last two issues but not the buzzing.

I've read a little bit about the buzzing issue and it almost seems that some level of buzzing is now considered "normal" and most members with this problem seem to be working on their own fixes. Has anyone been able to get some kind of satisfactory resolution from Panasonic service ?
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post #6145 of 9042
2/2/13 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

Second day with the new 65GT50 and sadly I am missing my 58" pz850u (sold it to a buddy). The GT50 is more modern looking, has deeper blacks, and better motion resolution as expected... but I am considering returning it for several reasons. First, I have a real "buzzer". If I have volume set lower than 25, I can clearly hear a buzz from 10 feet away when there is a bright image on the screen... and that's with panel brightness set to low. In fact, the buzz can overwhelm the TV volume at a 10 or lower setting. I never heard anything other than a little fan noise from my 850u. Second, the sound quality is really poor (tinny) no matter what audio settings I try. I guess it's a by-product of these ever thinner panels. Lastly, it really bugs me that the image for 16:9 content (and TV set to "Full" wide) comes up almost 1/4" short of the bezel on all sides. Is this normal ? I also noticed that the image shifts intermittently to the point where the gap on one side is even wider. (I'm guessing this is the pixel orbiter). The image on my 850u filled the screen from bezel edge to bezel edge and I never noticed any pixel orbiting. I think I can tolerate the last two issues but not the buzzing.

I've read a little bit about the buzzing issue and it almost seems that some level of buzzing is now considered "normal" and most members with this problem seem to be working on their own fixes. Has anyone been able to get some kind of satisfactory resolution from Panasonic service ?

Everything is normal other than the buzzing. It should not be that loud.

I have no idea how the audio is on mine. I haven't used the on board speakers on any of my TV's in a very long time.
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post #6146 of 9042
2/2/13 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemchine View Post

All of that said, I would like to purchase a DAC. Hold onto your pants as I explain. My primary music system is an Accuphase C-200 pre-amplifier, Accuphase P-300 amplifier and Magnepan 1.7 speakers. Now this is a pretty decent audio setup and I'm using a very low cost DAC with it right now. Sooo, I would like to get a recommendation for a replacement DAC in the sub-$500 range. Then I will move the inexpensive DAC to the tv system mentioned above.

Thanks

I really like my Emotiva XDA-1. I had a DacMagic and the XDA-1 was just as good but also had the advantage of an internal power supply. I think the XDA-1 is now obsolete, so just wait until Emotiva has a sale on the XDA-2.
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post #6147 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoD80k View Post

... Im wondering if I should even run slides. I never tested the picture on the first panel until I completed the Dnice 200 hr process and wonder if it too looked more exciting prior to slides. Is it possible that running slides on the first panel dulled it out or destabilized pixels causing more grainy pixelation?? Anything I should try different the second time around here? Thanks much

Take those slides and slide them into the trash. Run the TV normally using the THX cinema mode then dial in Cnet's or HDMaster's numbers. If you plan on having you new set pro calibrated next week then you need to stabilize the RGB output before the calibrator arrives so those slides may help. If not, don't do it. I have read every post in this thread and have not seen a single post that suggests slides do anything useful or that slides + DNice settings give better PQ than allowing the set to stabilize naturally and using the settings from C-net, BlackOps, or HDMaster. If IR is a concern, just try to minimize prolonged viewing of fixed white elements on the screen.

I did not use slides and my set looks fabulous. If I had to do it all over again I absolutely would NOT use slides and I wouldn't waste a second thinking it
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post #6148 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

Everything is normal other than the buzzing. It should not be that loud.

I have no idea how the audio is on mine. I haven't used the on board speakers on Thany of my TV's in a very long time.

Thanks... If I do keep it, I might need to consider a soundbar or small powered speakers. I don't want to run my full stereo just to watch the news or a sitcom or two. It just doesn't make sense to me to power up a 7 x 125W amp to watch 60 Minutes.

I'm not sure the trade-off for these thin panels is really worth it. My 3-year old plasma had a nice front mounted HDMI and SD card port. The side port for the SD card on the GT50 looks like an industrial design and something you could cut your finger on if not careful. And the side mounted volume, menu, and power controls come with a tacky stick-on label that (on my GT50) was bubbled up on one end. I think whoever assembled my TV must have had a bad day.
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post #6149 of 9042
2/2/13 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

Everything is normal other than the buzzing. It should not be that loud.

I have no idea how the audio is on mine. I haven't used the on board speakers on Thany of my TV's in a very long time.

Thanks... If I do keep it, I might need to consider a soundbar or small powered speakers. I don't want to run my full stereo just to watch the news or a sitcom or two. It just doesn't make sense to me to power up a 7 x 125W amp to watch 60 Minutes.

I'm not sure the trade-off for these thin panels is really worth it. My 3-year old plasma had a nice front mounted HDMI and SD card port. The side port for the SD card on the GT50 looks like an industrial design and something you could cut your finger on if not careful. And the side mounted volume, menu, and power controls come with a tacky stick-on label that (on my GT50) was bubbled up on one end. I think whoever assembled my TV must have had a bad day.

I run all of my audio and video through an AVR. It never made sense to me to do it any other way. That's just me though. I like to keep it streamlined and simple. Everything connected to the AVR and a Harmony remote to handle all the commands.
Edited by HD-Master - 2/2/13 at 9:31pm
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post #6150 of 9042
2/2/13 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post

I run all of my audio and video through an AVR. It never made sense to me to do it any other way. That's just me though. I like to keep it streamlined and simple. Everything connected to the AVR and a Harmony remote to handle all the commands.
I have the same setup but I dont turn the avr on all the time. I only use it for movies or sports or an occasional tv show. I figure I can save some wear and tear on the avr that way. No sense watching the news or a talk show in surround sound the way I see it. The way I have it set up is if the avr is off it automatically defaults to tv and as soon as I turn on the avr it disables the tv speakers.
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