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new i1pro 2 spectrophotometer - Page 3

post #61 of 149
make sure to check the AVS classifieds, used ones pop up here and there..
post #62 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

What I mean is that you're currently selling it for $1029 on the SpectraCal site. Will the remaining stock be sold at a lower price before the inventory is completely emptied?

EDIT: Will the re-certified used i1Pro's be sold on the SpectraCal site directly?

Chances are we may run out of i1Pro Rev D before we get our stocking order of OEM i1Pro 2.

Not sure if we are going to sell the used recert i1Pro's directly on our store or put them up on eBay. I guess it depends on number we get for trade ins.
post #63 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Chances are we may run out of i1Pro Rev D before we get our stocking order of OEM i1Pro 2.

Not sure if we are going to sell the used recert i1Pro's directly on our store or put them up on eBay. I guess it depends on number we get for trade ins.

Derek, are you ready to make an announcement about the OEM price / trade program / availability in stock?
post #64 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Derek, are you ready to make an announcement about the OEM price / trade program / availability in stock?

Should be the middle of next week once we have comfirmed our stocking order with X-Rite.
post #65 of 149
I got hold of an i1pro 2 for some testing and did a quick comparison with my now 6 yr old i1pro. It works out-of-the-box with the ArgyllCMS drivers in legacy mode which doesn't include the new functions like accelerated readings.

The comparison with my i1pro shows it has lost ~8% overall luminance sensitivity (see attached) but dE drift is smaller than I expected. (The i1pro has never been recalibrated and has just been stored in it's original case under temperature controlled conditions)

dE w/i1pro 2 as ref 75% White Red Green Blue Yellow Cyan Magenta
CIE94 0.8 1.1 1.2 1.1 0.4 0.5 0.5

Luminance reduction: Yw=7.6%, Yr=10.6%, Yg=5.8%, Yb=3.0%
LL
post #66 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I got hold of an i1pro 2 for some testing and did a quick comparison with my now 6 yr old i1pro. It works out-of-the-box with the ArgyllCMS drivers in legacy mode which doesn't include the new functions like accelerated readings.

May I ask why do you use ArgyllCMS drivers instead of i1 pro driver ? does it give better results ?
post #67 of 149
The ArgyllCMS driver includes the 3.33 nm sampling mode which does a better job of picking up the peaks in my plasma spectra.
post #68 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The ArgyllCMS driver includes the 3.33 nm sampling mode which does a better job of picking up the peaks in my plasma spectra.

When the device itself is limited by 10nm bandwidth, what difference would the software's sampling mode have to do with picking peaks in the spectra?
post #69 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by subraman View Post

When the device itself is limited by 10nm bandwidth, what difference would the software's sampling mode have to do with picking peaks in the spectra?

If your sample spacing is the same as the instrument resolution you run into aliasing errors if the measured spectra has narrow spectral features. To avoid undersampling it's generally recommend to sample at least 1.2xNyquist = 2.4 samples per resolution element.

In this plot (measured with the i1pro 2) of the red primary on my display the red trace is at 3.33 nm sampling and the black trace is 10 nm sampling. You can see some energy is not accounted for at 620 nm and 700 nm. The chromaticity shifts for this case are not huge but I prefer to not have to worry about such shifts.

post #70 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

If your sample spacing is the same as the instrument resolution you run into aliasing errors if the measured spectra has narrow spectral features. To avoid undersampling it's generally recommend to sample at least 1.2xNyquist = 2.4 samples per resolution element.

In this plot (measured with the i1pro 2) of the red primary on my display the red trace is at 3.33 nm sampling and the black trace is 10 nm sampling. You can see some energy is not accounted for at 620 nm and 700 nm. The chromaticity shifts for this case are not huge but I prefer to not have to worry about such shifts.


what software are you running?
post #71 of 149
ArgyllCMS This is commandline software only, there is a gui front-end for monitor calibration here. The ArgyllCMS drivers and tools have been integrated into the new open source HCFR version currently being developed by JohnAD and others.
post #72 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

ArgyllCMS This is commandline software only, there is a gui front-end for monitor calibration here. The ArgyllCMS drivers and tools have been integrated into the new open source HCFR version currently being developed by JohnAD and others.

so this approach would not work with CalMAN, ChromaPure, or the old ColorHCFR, correct?
post #73 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

so this approach would not work with CalMAN, ChromaPure, or the old ColorHCFR, correct?

Not with the older ColorHCFR but check with the other guys because they might have the "hires" mode for the i1pro available in their software.
post #74 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

If your sample spacing is the same as the instrument resolution you run into aliasing errors if the measured spectra has narrow spectral features. To avoid undersampling it's generally recommend to sample at least 1.2xNyquist = 2.4 samples per resolution element.

In this plot (measured with the i1pro 2) of the red primary on my display the red trace is at 3.33 nm sampling and the black trace is 10 nm sampling. You can see some energy is not accounted for at 620 nm and 700 nm. The chromaticity shifts for this case are not huge but I prefer to not have to worry about such shifts.

From the specs below, it appears that this is just an artifact introduced by X-Rite's data compression in their standard Spectral reporting. If the software can read the full 128 array data, you will be able to see the raw data with greater detail, including extensions into IR and UV regions. Doing this will not improve on the device's inherent bandwidth limitations, 10nm in this case. In all its internal calculations, it has to be using the entire data - it would be stupid not to.
I had speculated a while ago that Calman may be using this raw data (and averaging) in their low level enhancement for the I1-Pro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Specs. i1PRO i1PRO2
Spectral Analyzer Holographic diffraction grating with 128-pixel diode array Same with i1PRO
Spectral Range 380 - 730 nm Same with i1PRO
Physical Sampling Interval 3.5 nm Same with i1PRO
Optical Resolution 10 nm Same with i1PRO
Spectral Reporting 380 ... 730 nm in 10 nm steps Same with i1PRO
Measurement Scan Frequency 200 measurements per second (Rev. D) Same with i1PRO
Measurement Range 0.2 - 300 cd/m2 on a typical LCD-Monitor 0.2 - 1200 cd/m2 on a typical LCD-Monitor
Short-term Repeatability x,y: +/- 0.002 typical (5000°K, 80 cd/m2) Same with i1PRO
Inter-Instrument Agreement 0.4 ∆E94* average, 1.0 ∆E94* max. Same with i1PRO
Short-term Repeatability 0.1 ∆E94* on white Same with i1PRO
post #75 of 149
The two modes are different internally because the meter will report two different sets of X Y Z values on my display depending on mode, so there is a real measured offset between the two. The low res mode averages 3 samples together and reports at 10 nm intervals while the high res mode does no averaging and reports at 3.33 nm. I assume that they did this either to increase signal-to-noise ratio or allow for a "fast" and "slow" mode at the same SNR.
post #76 of 149


Can this feature for i1pro which is currently available using iProfiler 1.3 will be supported by CalMAN or ChromaPure?
post #77 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Can this feature for i1pro which is currently available using iProfiler 1.3 will be supported by CalMAN or ChromaPure?

I'm not sure exactly the feature you're referring to.

But yes CalMAN 4.6 has the enhanced drift compensation which means dynamic dark offset times (up to several hours). We take full advantage of the new SDK so any other perks from using the i1Pro2 in it's native gen2 mode will be available in CalMAN (As opposed to 11Pro compatiblility mode).
post #78 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I'm not sure exactly the feature you're referring to.

''Adaptive integration time based on patch luminance'', X-Rite maybe found a software code to operate different the old i1pro to give better performance at low light readings.
post #79 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

''Adaptive integration time based on patch luminance'', X-Rite maybe found a software code to operate different the old i1pro to give better performance at low light readings.

That sounds like they copied our low light handler. We've been doing that for years.
post #80 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Should be the middle of next week once we have comfirmed our stocking order with X-Rite.

Looks like we are still a few weeks out from taking customer orders so around mid June. The last thing we want to do is take a bunch of orders and not be able to ship them within a reasonable time.

As for trade-ins, upgrades, bundles etc... all of that is planned, we have the programs ready and will announce them as the time gets closer to OEM product release.

In the mean time CalMAN v4.62 already has fully integrated support for the i1Pro 2 so if you do buy one retail it will work already.
post #81 of 149
Derek,
This is a little OT and probably out of your wheelhouse. What is the difference between the i1 Pro and the portable paint spectros like the 552?
post #82 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

In the mean time CalMAN v4.62 already has fully integrated support for the i1Pro 2 so if you do buy one retail it will work already.

I have a few questions.

Operating i1PRO2 with latest CalMAN 4.62:

1) Do you support the self-correction feature during meter initialization using the i1PRO2's White Tile auto-correction?

2) Do you have set any dark reading time counter? (was 10min for i1PRO)

3) What is the default Low Light Handler Trigger setting for i1PRO2? (was 10 cd/m2 for i1PRO)
post #83 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

I have a few questions.

Operating i1PRO2 with latest CalMAN 4.62:

1) Do you support the self-correction feature during meter initialization using the i1PRO2's White Tile auto-correction?

Yes, we now require the tile for dark offset, but perform the alignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

2) Do you have set any dark reading time counter? (was 10min for i1PRO)

Yes we get the information from the meter. It's frequently up in the 2 hour range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

3) What is the default Low Light Handler Trigger setting for i1PRO2? (was 10 cd/m2 for i1PRO)

Low light performance wasn't greatly increased so it's still at 10 by default.
post #84 of 149
Wow, so the i1Pro2 can go 2 hours between initializations, that's a massive leap from the original.

Jason
post #85 of 149
If you were just using the spectro for profiling, would the time between dark readings matter at all (i1Pro 2 vs. i1Pro)?
post #86 of 149
Well no but if you wanted to use it for doing Gamut it would be a nice bonus.

Jason
post #87 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Well no but if you wanted to use it for doing Gamut it would be a nice bonus.

Jason

would the spectro be any more accurate than the profiled colorimeter for gamut work?
post #88 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

would the spectro be any more accurate than the profiled colorimeter for gamut work?

If you talking about the the i1pro and the C6, not much difference once profiled. The dark reading is not an issue, you set the button on the side of the i1pro to initialize within calman, then when you need to, cover the hole with your finger and hit the button.. done..
post #89 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

would the spectro be any more accurate than the profiled colorimeter for gamut work?

Possibly, could vary by colorimeter...? I know I trust the i1Pro over my i1D3 for gamut even though the claims are the D3 could be better on certain displays. I am on D3 number two and each had different readings (no profiling).


Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

If you talking about the the i1pro and the C6, not much difference once profiled. The dark reading is not an issue, you set the button on the side of the i1pro to initialize within calman, then when you need to, cover the hole with your finger and hit the button.. done..

That's exactly what I do but it's still kind of a pain if you are going for consistent reads from the same exact spot on the screen. I created profiles both ways, both meters on screen at once right next to each-other and then one at a time in the same location (which is the correct way to do it). I discovered that moving the i1Pro even slightly would change the reads a little. Obviously this is easier with projection having the meters secured to a tripod but with an HDtv it's kind of bothersome to have to initialize the Pro every 10 minutes. especially considering the goofy panel mount that the i1Pro comes with (obviously not intended for large hdtv's as I barely hit the middle of my screen with the weight sitting precariously on the top edge of my thin 60" LED LCD, thank goodness my plasma is smaller @ 50" or it would not work since it's even thinner).

I'll definitely be grabbing the Pro2 down the road once the prices are more reasonable for an enthusiast/hobbyist.

Jason
post #90 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

would the spectro be any more accurate than the profiled colorimeter for gamut work?

Profiling is designed for grayscale as a colorimeter is much quicker and more accurate at low light levels.

You need a new profile after any gamut change because when you are doing meter profiling, you are teaching the colorimeter where the primaries are. If you move the primaries doing CMS then the profile is off.

That's why both instruments are required, spectro for the colour gamut and then a profiled colorimeter for greyscale.
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