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Sub advise for large room ($1000+ budget) - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

It depends on the room. With as much space as you have, I would consider the biggest, baddest sub you can get and then add a second matching one down the road.

When I spoke to Epik, Chase, Hsu, and SVS about my room they all recommended getting the biggest sub my budget allowed and then go from there.

I concur 100%. Here is nice shoot-out thread referencing a lot of mid-range ID subs available. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...313176&page=41

The bang for the buck is there, but for those of us with upgraditus, it would be in our best interest (and our bank accounts best interest) to get one of the baddest vs. purchasing something you will want to upgrade. In the link above, go to the very last page. Post #1218 and beyond. Even the brothers who did the shootout agree that the LMS Ultra and FP14K Clone Combo would satisfy almost anyone's itch. Good thing about the Clone is that you have another channel waiting for you to accommodate another LMS Ultra when/if you feel the need for more LFE or to help balance out the room in the future... It's all about head room. Granted, not the cheapest route, but anyone you talk to with a similar set up say they will never turn back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyde01 View Post

I'm still weighing out my options. So far I'm leaning more towards the DIY route, but I would have to wait a while since I don't have any tools. Seems like the best bang for my buck; and I will need saws, clamps, etc, for home improvements for my newly purchased house anyway. The tools would get much more use than speaker building.

Good man. You won't break my heart if you don't go with the LMS... I will even refrain from saying I told you so when you are ready to upgrade if you do in fact go another route... As far as waiting, well good for you if you are inclined to build the box. Edogg did more of an Assemble-It-Yourself (AIY) vs. DIY build and he had Elemental Designs fabricate him a box. It might cost a bit more, but you could cut down your wait time and get a SUPER solid box. You could even have them send you the box RAW so you could finish it how you like (they have limited finishing options) to match that gorgeous room of yours. LMS in a Piano Black finished box? Yes, 4 please...
post #32 of 40
Quote:
When I spoke to Epik, Chase, Hsu, and SVS about my room they all recommended getting the biggest sub my budget allowed and then go from there.

Why of course they all will recommend doing that, especially if you buy from them. However, many audio experts will advise you to get two lesser subs over one large sub.

As far as upgraditis goes, there is no justification for anyone being in that state if they shop wisely. However, there is little cure for upgraditis when the cause of upgraditis is simply "keeping up with the Joneses". For example, the most heralded sub around here is Seaton Submersive, however if SVS ever decided to introduce SB-16, you might see that change. You would have folks that basically worship at the alter of Seaton as the holy grail of subwoofers all of sudden start to get strange case of "upgraditis".
post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Why of course they all will recommend doing that, especially if you buy from them. However, many audio experts will advise you to get two lesser subs over one large sub.

As far as upgraditis goes, there is no justification for anyone being in that state if they shop wisely. However, there is little cure for upgraditis when the cause of upgraditis is simply "keeping up with the Joneses". For example, the most heralded sub around here is Seaton Submersive, however if SVS ever decided to introduce SB-16, you might see that change. You would have folks that basically worship at the alter of Seaton as the holy grail of subwoofers all of sudden start to get strange case of "upgraditis".

The SVS SB-16 Ultra was projected to sell for $3,000 plus shipping even before the price of neodymium magnets went up dramatically in price. So, if we are going to compare ~$3,000 subs to ~$2,000 subs we can include some other very heavy hitters like the Danley DTS-10.

The Submersive has proven itself in every get-together as top of the heap along with the JTR Captivators and the JTR Orbit Shifter.

It's not like people just blindly follow recommendations for the Submersive without a lot of careful research.

Member OTK spent a couple years sorting through the best subs and should he decide to replace his 6 subs, Submersives would be his first choice.
post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

The SVS SB-16 Ultra was projected to sell for $3,000 plus shipping even before the price of neodymium magnets went up dramatically in price. So, if we are going to compare ~$3,000 subs to ~$2,000 subs we can include some other very heavy hitters like the Danley DTS-10.

The Submersive has proven itself in every get-together as top of the heap along with the JTR Captivators and the JTR Orbit Shifter.

It's not like people just blindly follow recommendations for the Submersive without a lot of careful research.

Member OTK spent a couple years sorting through the best subs and should he decide to replace his 6 subs, Submersives would be his first choice.

What I learned in the Flat Panel TV or Display forums was that its always something better around the corner, or at least that was the perception of some. That is why when the so-called Kuro Killer came out last year, some folks that once swore by the Kuro as basically being the holy grail, jumped shipped and purchased the Elite LED display from Sharp. I understand that some were selling the Kuro's and purchasing Elite LED's. I've seen this happen time and time again across the AVS Forums.
post #35 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Why of course they all will recommend doing that, especially if you buy from them. However, many audio experts will advise you to get two lesser subs over one large sub.

As far as upgraditis goes, there is no justification for anyone being in that state if they shop wisely. However, there is little cure for upgraditis when the cause of upgraditis is simply "keeping up with the Joneses". For example, the most heralded sub around here is Seaton Submersive, however if SVS ever decided to introduce SB-16, you might see that change. You would have folks that basically worship at the alter of Seaton as the holy grail of subwoofers all of sudden start to get strange case of "upgraditis".

I don't think the SB16 would have been that special. There are already a lot of good, sealed, high excursion, large woofer subs with high power amps out there. Paradigm Sub 25, Funk Audio 18.0, Velodyne DD+ subs, the sealed Captivator, etc. Just guessing from looking at the designs, but I don't think the SB16 would have outperformed the Submersive anyway. I think the Submersive would definitely had far more output around the 30s hz area and above.
post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I don't think the SB16 would have been that special. There are already a lot of good, sealed, high excursion, large woofer subs with high power amps out there. Paradigm Sub 25, Funk Audio 18.0, Velodyne DD+ subs, the sealed Captivator, etc. Just guessing from looking at the designs, but I don't think the SB16 would have outperformed the Submersive anyway. I think the Submersive would definitely had far more output around the 30s hz area and above.

I was just using SVS-16 as example. It could be something else that's yet to come to the market.
post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I was just using SVS-16 as example. It could be something else that's yet to come to the market.

It certainly would have been interesting to have seen what it might have been capable of doing but I think that project was scrapped but who knows
might get introduced yet.
post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Why of course they all will recommend doing that, especially if you buy from them. However, many audio experts will advise you to get two lesser subs over one large sub.

Who? What audio experts? I'm not trying to put you on the defensive, so please don't take my question out of context. I just feel as though the argument can go either way depending on a lot of factors for a specific application. The majority of so called "experts" I have followed on AVS claim that multiple subs are much more difficult dial in, and that a properly tuned(setup) single sub can blend and create a transient response just as well (or in some cases better) than multiple subs. I actually prefer multiple subs, however my argument is, "why not get one of the best and work your way up if you feel you need more, vs. getting two lesser subs." That's my position and that's what I feel most people would end up being the happiest with in the long term.

Yes, I personally would rather have one superior sub that can perform as well as two lesser subs, just as I would prefer to have two superior subs that can perform as well four lesser subs, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

As far as upgraditis goes, there is no justification for anyone being in that state if they shop wisely. However, there is little cure for upgraditis when the cause of upgraditis is simply "keeping up with the Joneses". For example, the most heralded sub around here is Seaton Submersive, however if SVS ever decided to introduce SB-16, you might see that change. You would have folks that basically worship at the alter of Seaton as the holy grail of subwoofers all of sudden start to get strange case of "upgraditis".

True, given the competitive nature of the HT/AV world, there is (and always will be) something bigger and better on the horizon. I guess there is simply no getting around that. I've heard nothing but great things about the Submersive and it was on my short list when I was looking into originally getting a few of the Epik Conquests. While conducting my research, I noticed a trend that a lot of people were still looking to upgrade. A lot of which ended up going the LMS Ultra route...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Just guessing from looking at the designs, but I don't think the SB16 would have outperformed the Submersive anyway. I think the Submersive would definitely had far more output around the 30s hz area and above.

30Hz and above... There is another issue I have a problem with. Call me crazy, but I like my sub to have MUCH deeper extension and usable output in the lower frequencies. Some like that mid-bass (55Hz) punch, I prefer my pants shaking at 16Hz. Maybe that's why I prefer the Ultra, because I've seen people (albeit with multiples) get incredible output at 10Hz.

Yeah, yeah... Tones below 16Hz are not audible to the human ear... Blah, blah, blah. I think most browsing the "subwoofer" threads can attest that the lowest octave (<16Hz) is the most rewarding and entertaining. To each their own though.
post #39 of 40
If you are really into this hobby then buying the best most powerful sub you can get your hands on is the way to go for sure and then start saving up for a second. However if you don't care that much and won't ever worry about upgrading then buy 2 cheaper less powerful subs.

2 subs makes it EASIER not harder to get a flatter freq response, whoever said the opposite is wrong. Sure it takes some work but it's so worth it.

Of course there will be subs that will be better than the Submersive. I'm sure there already are. What I like so much about the Submersive though is that if you want really good mid-bass punch, it has that. You want low freq. bass? Check. Oh, you also want a lot of spl? Yeah it has that too. There really aren't any big weaknesses with it as far as I can tell.

edit - ha, other than the price tag!!
post #40 of 40
Thread Starter 
I've decided on dual SVS PC12 NSDs and going to order soon. I might get less sub than the dual CHT 18.1s, but the SVS ironclad warranty and outstanding customer service really drew me in the more I read about that company. The wife loves the look of the cylinder subs, and I like the small footnote that will allow more placement options over the boxed version (although the box is slightly better from what I've read).

I appreciate all of your time and advice given in this thread.

Popalock ...if I ever get the tools and build a couple LMS 18's, feel free to rub it in my face for not starting there in the first place.
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