Wanted BIG BASS: Big room open to an even bigger room with lots of windows!

Good new? .... Killer room


Bad news? .... Killer room

What a cool space,...however windows do pass some LF energy, could be good in the time domain (nice tight well delineated decay), however less of the benefits of Pressure Vessel Gain.

If you had access below the space, and you were so inclined to pursue an IB, you could really shine for $1500. Four IB3-18's from Fi, an EP4000 from Behringer, you could hit some serious dBSPL @20hz@1m, ... perhaps 120-125dB@1m. All this is within your budget and aesthetically doesn't disturb the space. Your mains acoustic output capability will dictate what you may need regarding your subs max output. If needed for additional headroom, you could high pass the IB in steps, limiting the excursion, and substantially raising the IB's capability above the infrasonic range.

There's certainly other methods to achieve your goals, just my 2 cents.


btw; I like the B&W's, that loudspeaker revolutionized the genre.



Good luck

+1 on the infinite baffle approach - I've even seen IB projects that vent to the exterior of a house, negating the need to find an adjacent enclosed (interior) space.

If you're interested, there are some great project ideas at the Cult of the Infintely Baffled @ http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi

As an aside, I love the color of your walls - so many people are afraid of bold colors and stick with bland off-white rooms. Very cool!

First off, f'n cool room. Second, how 'bout a location, thats some nice scenery. Third, love the dog bed and big dog dishes, i had a Great Dane that had some big dishes.

Is that your bottom line as far as budget. I'm thinking some dual opposing 18's. Some ( meaning ) at least two cabs for a total of four drivers. Amps will be up in the air till we narrow down that budget a little. Set aside $175.00 for a balanced MiniDSP shipped. You have a wide sweetspot there and its gonna be tough to fill in the FR at the LP's you have. Maybe another $300 for an OmniMic !

This is just a brainstorm session, more will chime in for sure.....

What about a pair of long, low, ported subs running along the back wall in each corner? I dont think sealed is the way to go for your situation

Ported will save you money on amps, either way the MiniDSP is a killer processor....

I don't know how high that window is from the floor, but I'm thinking something like these "easy button end tables" facing the inside of your room, that would be 24"H x 21"D x 36"W. The LMS-R 15 models really well in that enclosure.

i have an easy button max (maelstrom 18), and im rattling windows in rooms that are in other areas of the house! i cant even imagine what kind of rattles you will be having to deal with, if you get some serious bass in that area.
just keep it in mind. i am sure on the low stuff you will want to hear whats coming out of the speakers instead of the entire room rattling around you.
also i like my easy button max, but if you have the room and are big on music, i dont know why you coudlnt build a nice horn sub for much much (much) cheaper.

easy button cost me around 1 grand after driver, electronics and wood.
i think u could get away with 500 bux total on one horn (whatever is the flavor lately) and come out with more spl where it sounds like you want it.

I think any real sub is going to give the op those kind of issues. All he has right now is a wimpy 30hz klipsch sub. He did say

Two of my signature plus an EP4000 plus MiniDSP should do it if you're absolutely limited to that budget. Otherwise, that's a rather large amount of space to fill on such a low dollar amount.

I'd probably want to hide them in the basement and fire them up through the floor somehow so they don't ruin the decor. That's one nice looking room, there.

Also, my design does model better using the Seas L26ROY... that driver is more expensive, but may be the only way you'd be happy with the musical performance of my design. I designed it to get loud enough for movies in big spaces before anything else. Problem is, four of the Seas driver might end up being over budget.

i guess i fail at reading

the horn subs wont really do ultra low stuff as well as IB. i wish i had heard ib compared to horn and my easy button endtable max. so sadly my only experience is with my current sub, which is killer, but i think in your room might not be as awesome as it is in mine.

I'm thinking multiple f20's. 4 of them would fill the room nicely and still come under budget as well as making a statement in the looks department. No you won't get ultra low, but you'll still get some good tactile response and you will have gobs of headroom. To me, everyone can have nice looking rooms, but can everyone have a conversation piece like "those subs that just put a smile on our faces, I built them." Not something that's hid in a corner, but something that stands out in a room and makes people a little uneasy when they first find out they are subwoofers.

8 of these work well in small enclosures
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-469

2 drivers in one 100l sealed enclosure which is roughly 21x21x21"

This is exactly what I was thinking when I first looked at your pics... You could trim them out and paint them to get them to blend into the room reasonably well and gain some functionality out of them too as window seats like mentioned or a place for your dog to lay and look at the birds outside...

You could even build your center into it to get the soundstage down to where it would sound better too at the same time.

Nice place... Only thing that would improve it was if there was an ocean out the window.

I'm about 95% sure one wouldn't do it in that much space. Not without running it wide open, anyway. Too bad there's no basement... they're shallow enough to fit between standard floor joists

I attached a model of the sub I recommended against a dual 390HF sealed box. It's Max SPL, which shows maximum rated power of the drivers (1000W), vs their xmax limit. You be the judge.

Hardly a fair fight don't you think? Model 3 HO's instead of HF (price equivalent and smaller box size) plus factor in likely exaggerated xmax of the LMS, plus room response given single sub versus 3, and then decide which one wins that argument. I'll take the HO's though for the price, extra 25% displacement of 3, and placement options.

Chassmain what is the height to the bottom of the screen wall windows? You absolutely have to do something that doesn't detract from the view/design. This may not be a popular suggestion, but depending on height you could do 8+ Alpine 1243's (four dual opposed) and still have money left over (or look at their SWR 15" for another low cost moderate xmax option). I would encase them in stain matched wood to appear like a window bench. I'm usually all for painting, but I definitely wouldn't ruin the appearance of the room by painting them.

If I could make one design suggestion I would paint your screen housing Tequila Lime. The white is the first thing that draws my attention. Aside from your french doors, it is the only white object in the room. Ok I'm done hopefully I didn't offend

That single ported box was half the size of the dual opposed HF box, you're right it's not a fair fight Even with inflated xmax specs, you were looking at 24mm at 9hz and 21mm at 22hz with a 13hz HPF.

It's up to the OP how many boxes he wants to try to integrate, this is a simple 2 box solution with manageable enclosure sizes.

you might take a look at the jbl w15gti woofer. it has a very clean response. for the big room, ported cabs tuned to around 18-20hz might be a decent tradeoff for depth vs. spl. that is really something that you have to decide on though. right now the driver is $300 shipped. it has oddball dual 6 ohm voice coils. wired in series, each driver will have 12 ohms and three drivers in parallel net to a 4 ohm load. 4 ohms is a common value for bridged amplifiers. that should get you about 120-123db or so from your tuning frequency on up. the minidsp is quite flexible and popular for eq. a behringer amp ep2500/4000 or one of the inukes should be fine. the 6000 can't be bridged though.

Dont worry about hipassing at 20hz, a MiniDSP would be perfect, whether or not you go sealed or ported. Four cabs with 2 drivers each would be great.

8- 15" daytons 1,300
4- Behringer EP4000. 1,200
Mini DSP 175
4 cabs ( unknown )

It adds up.........

Lovely room! I think we're all extremely jealous.

I'd be inclined to do a series of tapped horn modules that go across the front wall, their height matching the sill height and running all the way across. Drivers chosen to suit the profile, whether that be 10,12,15" drivers, ideally dual opposed for the reduction in vibration. I'd shoot for 20 Hz and run an active crossover and do some measuring to assist with combining the existing bass with the subs. Could be a fun project.

F20 is a good one (I've built one) but I think it would partially block the window and excursion tends to shoot up at 25 Hz so that becomes a bit of a bottleneck. So I think this could call for a new design if you go down the horn path. In this room you won't be expecting room gain to help down there so you want a design that keeps excursion low down to 20 Hz (if that is the extension target). I wouldn't try to get lower in this room.

What is the height of that front window sill? Looks like about 400mm. Perhaps you could do 3 or 4 20 Hz tapped horns across (coming in a bit from the door on the left). Possibly with the CSS trio or Dayton RS 12" sub drivers.

Another consideration is subs placed in other locations - the multi sub approach. Smaller helper subs to smooth out room response, especially useful for a seating area rather than just one sweet spot.

Before going ahead I'd want to measure the room transfer function with different sub positions. So you can end up with one or a number of horn subs mixed with smaller sealed "helper" subs elsewhere in the room to smooth things out. They don't need to go down as low.

:d

Mini DSP
4- 15" daytons
2- Behringer EP4000
4- cabs: 2x of the biggest FH you can make for <50hz in the back and 2x Ported for >50hz up front

That should give you all the SPL and deep bass you can tolerate.
[ and if still not enough, double it ]

Someone model this beast...

Nice space you have there. I owned a pair of B&W 801 sII for about a decade - very nice speakers.

My HT room is pretty similar size to yours and I have a single DIY tapped horn with a low x-max (8mm) 15" driver. Not enough sub for that sized space unless I run it at -6db or so with bass heavy movies.

Not sure if you realize it or not, but if you have set up your AV processor to 'no sub' it will redirect the movies LFE channel to your main speakers, but at -10db.