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Wanted BIG BASS: Big room open to an even bigger room with lots of windows! - Page 4

post #91 of 144
6/2/12 at 3:23pm
"my Emotiva amp should be able to play that sub at moderate volumes without blowing up right?"

which amp do you have?
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post #92 of 144
6/2/12 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"my Emotiva amp should be able to play that sub at moderate volumes without blowing up right?"

which amp do you have?

XPA 5: 200 W x 5 at 8 ohms, 300 W x 5 at 4 ohms
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post #93 of 144
6/2/12 at 3:43pm
that is really strange. 4.3 ohms is an easy load for an amp rated at 4 ohms nominal.

300 watts should produce spl over 120db. you weren't pushing it *that* hard were you?

in any case, it shouldn't blow itself up and it shouldn't be destroying drivers all over place.

i wouldn't hook it up to any more speakers. it sounds like it is just putting out direct current now and that will fry anything that you hook it up to.

my next move would be to get on the phone with emotiva.

also, take another resistance measurement of the sub.
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post #94 of 144
6/2/12 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 
120 db, not even close! It was moderately loud, and I didn't have an SPL meter hooked up at the time so it is impossible to know for sure, but it wasn't uncomfortable or above and beyond what I normally play my speakers at. Plus this horn is a good 5-6 db more efficient than my mains. I'd say max maybe 100-105 db before things went to hell. After hooking my 801 half to another amplifier and finding the base driver blown I'm seriously worried that one of my subs might be destroyed as well.

What would be the best way for me to find out for sure? It still measures 4.3 ohms with my Fluke.

I've already been on the horn with Emotiva, and they've been more than reasonable/line about repairing my amplifier under warranty. The big thing that concerns me is this is the second time this has happened, and they mentioned at some point repeated blowing of the output stage could be considered "abuse" and that possibly I need to step it up to a larger amp. I don't know, really just at a loss for words right now because I never consider myself an abuser of my equipment, and though I do listen to my music loud sometimes I think it is in the realm of what this stuff is made for.

I don't know, just wondering what other damage might have happened.
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post #95 of 144
6/2/12 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 
Another thing, after the amp blew its output stage I smelled something funny by my subwoofer. Is it likely this is shot too, or would these be more apt to make it through whatever happened then my 801s.

And no I will not be plugging anymore speakers into this amplifier, it is already boxed up and ready to go back to Emotiva for repairs
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post #96 of 144
6/2/12 at 5:24pm
u really dont want to use the emotiva as a sub amp.
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post #97 of 144
6/2/12 at 5:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieattk View Post

u really dont want to use the emotiva as a sub amp.

Can you tell me why not? And amp is an amp after all and as long as you're driving a speaker within its impedance ratings why should it matter?
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post #98 of 144
6/2/12 at 7:51pm
"What would be the best way for me to find out for sure? It still measures 4.3 ohms with my Fluke."

there isn't really a single test because coils can partially fry and cause rubbing from warpage. since it measures the same dcr as before, it probably survived. if you can see the voice coil that might give some insight into how badly it was hit with the direct current.

"Can you tell me why not? An amp is an amp after all and as long as you're driving a speaker within its impedance ratings why should it matter?"

i hear you and agree, but consumer gear is sh_t for knowing where the limits are. the 300 watt rating on that amp is apparently for "short durations", which means far less power is what it can actually handle with something like sine wave testing for sustained durations.

given how the amps are marketed, one would certainly be led to believe that the amp could actually produce their rated power "all the time".

Don’t compare the XPA-5 with receivers. The typical "audiophile" receiver can deliver only 120 to 140 watts of "channel power." What this means is that only one or two channels can produce that 120 watts, not all channels driven, simultaneously, at rated power, all the time, like we can with our XPA-5. Our amps produce their full rated power, with all channels driven - no excuses, no compromises, and no double-talk.
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post #99 of 144
6/2/12 at 9:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"What would be the best way for me to find out for sure? It still measures 4.3 ohms with my Fluke."

there isn't really a single test because coils can partially fry and cause rubbing from warpage. since it measures the same dcr as before, it probably survived. if you can see the voice coil that might give some insight into how badly it was hit with the direct current.

"Can you tell me why not? An amp is an amp after all and as long as you're driving a speaker within its impedance ratings why should it matter?"

i hear you and agree, but consumer gear is sh_t for knowing where the limits are. the 300 watt rating on that amp is apparently for "short durations", which means far less power is what it can actually handle with something like sine wave testing for sustained durations.

given how the amps are marketed, one would certainly be led to believe that the amp could actually produce their rated power "all the time".

Don't compare the XPA-5 with receivers. The typical "audiophile" receiver can deliver only 120 to 140 watts of "channel power." What this means is that only one or two channels can produce that 120 watts, not all channels driven, simultaneously, at rated power, all the time, like we can with our XPA-5. Our amps produce their full rated power, with all channels driven - no excuses, no compromises, and no double-talk.

unless they hiding a 2kva transformer somewhere in the case i dont see how it can do 200watts.

specs say a 1.24kva so thats 200 watt / channel your going to throw away a minimum of 50-60% of the transformers power into the heatsinks and power supply. that makes the transformer a solid 480-580 watts

so max power u could ever pull is 100-125 watts per channel no matter the ohm aussuming all channels have the same load on them other wise u could probably get the full rating from 2 channels. but truthfully they are not made to take a load like that and would clip and die like yours did. 99% of those amps are used at under 25 watts.


i looked at specs and it says

Fully protected from all fault conditions.

u should tell them to pay return shipping and give u full refund for the amp and to fix your speakers while there at it or u will sue them there's absolutely no reason to not have a speaker protection when they advertize as "Fully protected from all fault conditions" this is fraudulent since yours failed and killed a speaker.
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post #100 of 144
6/3/12 at 10:52pm
i'd just go spend a couple hundred bucks on an ep2500/4000 and call it a day.
I've never had good luck running subs off consumer grade home theater amps. Last year my dayton sa-1000 took a crap on me, and I hooked my chase 18.2 up to my adcom gfa-555II I had out in the garage. It is rated for 850w@ 4 ohms mono bridged and sounded like absolute crap with the subs, clipped way too easily. That was with a lpf engaged.
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post #101 of 144
6/4/12 at 8:04am
"I've never had good luck running subs off consumer grade home theater amps."

it was just a temporary test rig.
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post #102 of 144
6/4/12 at 8:16am
I can't explain why, but it seems to me it's just a bad idea to drive subs with anything other than amps designed for the purpose (plate amps) or pro amps with low impedance drive. I've never had good results with anything else. Even at moderate levels you can run into problems.
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post #103 of 144
6/4/12 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the input folks!

Always, even from the beginning, I have conceded to the fact that I won't be driving these with my consumer grade home theater amps. Just was so excited to get them bumping that I used one with disastrous effects. Whatever, the company is coming good on the amp, and over the weekend I tore one of the plate amps out of my 10-year-old piece of junk Acoustic Research subwoofer and can’t get over the results.

I AM SIMPLY BLOWN AWAY!

The bass is unlike anything I've ever heard in my room or any home/theater setting. It's just freaking incredible! The easiest way to explain it is it almost feels more like something I'd expect more from a live concert then in my living room. The impact, dynamics, volume… It literally shakes the walls! And this running only one of them with a piece of crap 200 W amp at less than half gain with nothing more than a built-in 20 Hz high pass filter. I can’t imagine what these will be like when I hook them up to a real amp.

Now what should that amp be?

I know everyone is right in love with the Behringer ep2500/4000, but I must admit the simplicity of having amp/DSP all-in-one with something like their iNUKEDSP 3000 is pretty hard to resist. I have half a mind to sell my never used balanced miniDSP and just go for it with one of the iNUKE amps. Anyone want to buy my miniDSP?

Any reason why not to get a iNuke?
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post #104 of 144
6/4/12 at 9:51am
Quote:


Any reason why not to get a iNuke?

No eqing or filtering below 20hz, but in your situation, I have absolutely NO reason to tell you otherwise, should be a perfect fit
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post #105 of 144
6/4/12 at 10:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

No eqing or filtering below 20hz, but in your situation, I have absolutely NO reason to tell you otherwise, should be a perfect fit

Can I still filter everything below 20 Hz out?
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post #106 of 144
6/4/12 at 10:30am
yep, thats just the lowest you can set your hpf to. Only time one would run into problems was if the tuning of the box was lower, or with multiple sealed where you might want to boost lower than 20hz. Neither of these are your concern so you should be good to go
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post #107 of 144
6/4/12 at 11:21am
Great work so far, sorry about the blowout.. looking forward to seeing the final results..
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post #108 of 144
6/4/12 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chassmain View Post

Thanks for all the input folks!

Always, even from the beginning, I have conceded to the fact that I won't be driving these with my consumer grade home theater amps. Just was so excited to get them bumping that I used one with disastrous effects. Whatever, the company is coming good on the amp, and over the weekend I tore one of the plate amps out of my 10-year-old piece of junk Acoustic Research subwoofer and can't get over the results.

I AM SIMPLY BLOWN AWAY!

The bass is unlike anything I've ever heard in my room or any home/theater setting. It's just freaking incredible! The easiest way to explain it is it almost feels more like something I'd expect more from a live concert then in my living room. The impact, dynamics, volume It literally shakes the walls! And this running only one of them with a piece of crap 200 W amp at less than half gain with nothing more than a built-in 20 Hz high pass filter. I can't imagine what these will be like when I hook them up to a real amp.

Now what should that amp be?

I know everyone is right in love with the Behringer ep2500/4000, but I must admit the simplicity of having amp/DSP all-in-one with something like their iNUKEDSP 3000 is pretty hard to resist. I have half a mind to sell my never used balanced miniDSP and just go for it with one of the iNUKE amps. Anyone want to buy my miniDSP?

Any reason why not to get a iNuke?

Love posts like this, I'm glad it's working out for you - it sounds like it is exceeding your expectations that's awsome. I have never experienced an IB setup, hope to someday.
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post #109 of 144
6/4/12 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chassmain View Post

Thanks for all the input folks!

Always, even from the beginning, I have conceded to the fact that I won't be driving these with my consumer grade home theater amps. Just was so excited to get them bumping that I used one with disastrous effects. Whatever, the company is coming good on the amp, and over the weekend I tore one of the plate amps out of my 10-year-old piece of junk Acoustic Research subwoofer and can't get over the results.

I AM SIMPLY BLOWN AWAY!

Glad to hear. Told ya you'd have to experience it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chassmain View Post

The bass is unlike anything I've ever heard in my room or any home/theater setting. It's just freaking incredible! The easiest way to explain it is it almost feels more like something I'd expect more from a live concert then in my living room. The impact, dynamics, volume It literally shakes the walls! And this running only one of them with a piece of crap 200 W amp at less than half gain with nothing more than a built-in 20 Hz high pass filter. I can't imagine what these will be like when I hook them up to a real amp.

Add about 13 dBs. Simply put, more than twice what you have now. Should make things interesting....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chassmain View Post

Now what should that amp be?

I know everyone is right in love with the Behringer ep2500/4000, but I must admit the simplicity of having amp/DSP all-in-one with something like their iNUKEDSP 3000 is pretty hard to resist. I have half a mind to sell my never used balanced miniDSP and just go for it with one of the iNUKE amps. Anyone want to buy my miniDSP?

Any reason why not to get a iNuke?

The 3K DSP will be plenty of amp for you. I have one, I have wrung it out testing a CVX (8 ohm load with the amp bridged), and I found it to deliver until I pushed the amp and driver to their respective limits. I'm not 100% sure that the limits I found are only the amp to be honest. I have measured the amp's response, it is basically flat until 10 Hz (with a low output level - not sure about war volume yet, need to make that 4 KW dummy load).

The limits I found won't really apply to you, that sub was tuned lower than yours. Also - the limits were evident with sine waves, but not so much with music or program material. I'll be using my iNuke 3K DSP with my CVX subs once they're built, as I'm currently limited to a tune above 20 Hz due to space constraints. During testing, we ran Todd's subs with both. The EP2500/4000 seems to deliver a bit more down low, but above 20 Hz, the iNuke is definitely in the race. If you don't need EQ or highpass below 20 Hz, I think that the iNuke 3000DSP is an excellent choice.
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post #110 of 144
6/4/12 at 2:46pm
I am overjoyed you have found Bass Nirvana using a TH driven by Kicker woofers Can't wait to hear your report with two up and running on the DSP3k... You might button down the house between now and then. Most of us bass heads already know - real bass breaks things. Sometimes even houses.. I've cracked drywall seams, popped drywall screw heads through the wall, dropped plants, and photo's off walls, literally emptied the contents of a cupboard to the floor once.. Broken a neighbors chandelier (got the boot for that - was in the 1990's.. ) even broken a 3rd story bathroom window from the basement in a home in SoCal.. Real bass is Awesome Fun Congratulations.
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post #111 of 144
6/4/12 at 3:23pm
"You might button down the house between now and then."

Well said..seriously! It is now a ritual to make sure all dishes are in the sink, wine bottles are centered in the rack, and everything is in its proper location before going down to the basement and watching a movie with my Dual CVX15 TH's.

Especially if its just me watching a movie without the girl, coming back upstairs is like walking on needles knowing that lilmike probably just made me sacrifice some household item throughout the entire house.

Cant wait to hear your impressions, even though I know what they will be already.
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post #112 of 144
6/4/12 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 
Okay, okay, you guys have me convinced… I'll be ordering an iNUKE 3000DSP tomorrow although honestly I probably don't need anything more than another tiny/tiddly plate amp to match the one I've got going now. What the hell might as well do it up right?

Decided to juice things up this afternoon a little bit and experiment with some test tones/dubstep. Really didn't plan on pushing things too much, especially without the equalizing in place, but a buddy showed up and we decided to pull out the ole RadioShack meter and see what this thing could do. Let me preface this again with… I only have one of these running through a POS Acoustic Research plate amp off a 10-year-old subwoofer from my college days running at half gain.

At the mouth 118+ db at 25 hz effortlessly, like not even slightly breaking a sweat. Back to the listening position still 112+… This is in a 6000 ft.³ room.

Honestly I've never heard anything like it in my life. The guy I had over is an old car audio nut, probably installed close to 1000 systems and couldn't believe it. Bass in the house unlike he'd ever experienced… Said it was almost like being in a car.

Oh yeah… I'm already in bass Nirvana… Can't imagine what it'll be like when I fire up the second, equalize, and power them properly. Right now the response humps definitely need to be tamed, and I really hope firing up the second one helps fill in the nulls.

Okay I'll have more pictures shortly!
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post #113 of 144
7/3/12 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chassmain View Post

Okay I'll have more pictures shortly!

Any updates? smile.gif We're all waiting with baited breath still.... Hope you are well.
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post #114 of 144
10/28/12 at 5:29pm
No pictures since July?
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post #115 of 144
10/31/12 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone! I owe you all a great big, gigantic apology for my prolonged absence. Had some stuff pop up in my health/ personal life that kept from focusing on some of the things I so enjoy (namely, writing with all you great folks) but life has settled down, my new amplifier recently arrived, and I have everything put together and working.

I'll take some updated photos tomorrow and tell you all the nitty-gritty about my awesome tapped horn's. Thanks for the patience and your understanding.

Can't wait to catch up with you all!
-Mike
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post #116 of 144
11/1/12 at 6:22am
Glad all is well!!! Looking forward to the pics.
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post #117 of 144
11/1/12 at 10:33am
Thread Starter 
Alright… How about some before and after pictures!

Quadomated Home Theater Before the Horns




Quadomated Home Theater After the Massive Quad Horns







What do you think? I couldn't be more happy with how the gigantic Quadhorn Tapped Horn subwoofers seamlessly blended into my room/decore as a window seat. Almost like they belong there or something.

I will admit, when I first moved these beasts into my room I kinda freaked out a little bit thinking what the hell have I done, but now that they're all stained up with some flowers on them, and I'm used to the space they take up I can't imagine my room without them. They almost bring an extra warmth/homeliness to my room, well at least until I crank them up :-)

Will give you my thoughts about how they sound in just a few.
-Mike
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post #118 of 144
11/1/12 at 10:39am
That blends in with the room so well! I am not showing these pics to my wife. LOL
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post #119 of 144
11/1/12 at 10:50am
Nice yard sir! Excellent implementation of the subs into the room too.
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post #120 of 144
11/1/12 at 11:04am
Goodness, how do those plants like the 20hz material? haha
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