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Is this sub any good Help me

post #1 of 13
4/6/12 at 2:49pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Guys :

Can you tell me anything about the Martin Logan Grotto 250W sub. Not the Grotto i version.(I think that this Grotto is an older version of the i ) Is it any good. Does any one have one ? If so can you comment on it.

Thanks for any input. Norm L
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post #2 of 13
4/6/12 at 6:03pm
Whether or not a sub is good depends on the price; there's always something better. Or it depends on your expectations for it.

How much would cost it? What do you want it to be able to do? What size room? What kind of listening (music/ht)?
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post #3 of 13
4/7/12 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Whether or not a sub is good depends on the price

Not necessarily. For example, factory direct subs like those from SVS, HSU and other on line manufacturers usually offer the best bang for the buck. There are also plenty of below par subs that are well over priced. Tom Nousaine actually used a bang for the buck rating. Some fairly expensive subs offered by company's like Bag End, Polk and Canton rarely offered the best value in his reviews.


Ian
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post #4 of 13
4/7/12 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Not necessarily. For example, factory direct subs like those from SVS, HSU and other on line manufacturers usually offer the best bang for the buck. There are also plenty of below par subs that are well over priced. Tom Nousaine actually used a bang for the buck rating. Some fairly expensive subs offered by company's like Bag End, Polk and Canton rarely offered the best value in his reviews.

That's why I said it depends on the price of the sub??? If an HSU VTF-15H was priced at $2000, it would not be a good sub to purchase.
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post #5 of 13
4/7/12 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Not necessarily. For example, factory direct subs like those from SVS, HSU and other on line manufacturers usually offer the best bang for the buck. There are also plenty of below par subs that are well over priced. Tom Nousaine actually used a bang for the buck rating. Subs made by company's like Bag End, Polk and Canton rarely offered the best value in his reviews.


Ian

Ian

Thanks for the reminder that Tom Nousaine gave a db per dollar rating in some of his subwoofer reviews. In the Nousaine List link below, one can click on the subs shown in blue and a link to the original review will appear. Of course not all of the links still work, but it is worth a try if someone is considering a sub on the list.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Interestingly enough, the Martin Logan Grotto ranks below the HSU STF-1...
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post #6 of 13
4/7/12 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That's why I said it depends on the price of the sub??? If an HSU VTF-15H was priced at $2000, it would not be a good sub to purchase.


You mean price verses value? Even at 2 grand, the VTF-15H would probably compete with many retail subs in terms of extension, linearity and output to boot.


Ian
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post #7 of 13
4/7/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

You mean price verses value? Even at 2 grand, the VTF-15H would probably compete with many retail subs in terms of extension, linearity and output to boot.

Obviously. But the VTF-15H would not a good buy compared to some other ID subs at that price. Better to save some money by getting the Rythmik FV15HP. Or maybe go with a JTR Captivator Pro with a good amp. So what's your point?
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post #8 of 13
4/7/12 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Obviously. But the VTF-15H would not a good buy compared to some other ID subs at that price.

But I wasn't comparing the HSU to other ID subs was I?


Quote:


So what's your point?


My point is simple. Performance isn't always dictated by price.



Ian
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post #9 of 13
4/7/12 at 4:21pm
Since he didn't mention a budget or even room space we can only comment on the sub in question.
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post #10 of 13
4/7/12 at 4:27pm
Cel is on point. OP asks if a sub is "any good". That's too subjective of a question without a price. So how much?
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post #11 of 13
4/7/12 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by norml4721 View Post

Hi Guys :

Can you tell me anything about the Martin Logan Grotto 250W sub. Not the Grotto i version.(I think that this Grotto is an older version of the i ) Is it any good. Does any one have one ? If so can you comment on it.

Thanks for any input. Norm L

I got a chance to listen to a Grotto 2-3 years back. VERY musical and had more presence than it's specs indicated. Not cheap though. For pure HT there are better choices but for critical listening it's a good product.
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post #12 of 13
4/7/12 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

But I wasn't comparing the HSU to other ID subs was I?

You disagreed with what I said originally. Perhaps my fault for the quick and dirty phone post, but I've just been clarifying what I said initially. Let me make it clearer:

Whether a sub is good or not does depend on its price because there is always a better sub at a higher price. It doesn't matter--ID or retail speaker company subs. Pretty much any sub has a price point where it is a good value, and one where it is not. At $2,000, the VTF-15H would not be a good sub because there are better options. The Energy ESW-C10 on sale at Newegg for $149 this weekend is a good sub because it's a good value, even though it normally is not.

Granted, this is a very general evaluation since the Energy ESW-C10 would probably not be better than the BIC F12 for a large room for mainly HT usage. But at that price, it has characteristics that make it a very good value for specific needs. At full retail, no, because there are other, cheaper subs that provide a better performance value.
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post #13 of 13
4/7/12 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You disagreed with what I said originally. Perhaps my fault for the quick and dirty phone post, but I've just been clarifying what I said initially. Let me make it clearer:

Whether a sub is good or not does depend on its price because there is always a better sub at a higher price. It doesn't matter--ID or retail speaker company subs. Pretty much any sub has a price point where it is a good value, and one where it is not. At $2,000, the VTF-15H would not be a good sub because there are better options. The Energy ESW-C10 on sale at Newegg for $149 this weekend is a good sub because it's a good value, even though it normally is not.

Granted, this is a very general evaluation since the Energy ESW-C10 would probably not be better than the BIC F12 for a large room for mainly HT usage. But at that price, it has characteristics that make it a very good value for specific needs. At full retail, no, because there are other, cheaper subs that provide a better performance value.


I appreciate your clarification and I understand your point, which is well taken. However I think you were reading too much into mine, which is not that complicated. Just as an example, a few years a go, Nousaine tested a group of subs for S&V. One was the Canton A S50 SC. At $999.00 it was the highest price sub in the group. It also offered the least value since every other sub in his review offered better performance in almost every test category. This included the Phase Tech HV-1000, which retailed for only $475.00. The Canton's bang for the buck was a whopping $970.00 per db when compared to the Phase Tech which was only $4.65. Bottom line, performance isn't always dictated by price. Hopefully now we can put this to bed.


Ian
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