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Nintendo Wii - End Of Life Roundup

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
With the release of Xenoblade, we have seen the end of quality games coming out for the Wii. People keep mentioning Last Story as one more good game, but it's unlikely that that will actually live up to expectations in any way. It's from Mistwalker, a studio with extremely high quality personel that has never actually put out a product of note.

So, we are at the end of life for our Wii. Looking back, I have mixed feelings about it overall. I picked mine up on day one, and while Wii Sports was a lot of fun and a genuinely new experience, my initial Wii ownership was still marred by the lack of component cables. Having also picked up Zelda, I couldn't actually play that game for another six weeks when component cables started hitting the market. Then? Waggle was bolted on to a game designed for a gamepad. The result was a great game with crap controls that I promptly shelved.

Scanning through my library, there are a couple things of note, and a few glaring patterns. First, the positive. Wii Remote controls can work extremely well. Resident Evil 4 Wii is the definitive version of the game, even better than the recently released HD versions. The Wii Remote control scheme was brilliant. Metroid Prime 3 and later the Metroid Prime Trilogy proved to function far better with a Wii Remote than with a Gamecube pad. Boom Blox and Mario Party 8 rounds out the list of games that I found to be genuinely improved by the addition of the Wii Remote. Shaking the Remote for various effect, balancing, flinging, and aiming at the screen were all improvements here.

We then had a variety of games that weren't particularly hurt by the Wii Remote, but weren't really improved by it. Mario Galaxy was not better than Sunshine because it used a Wiimote instead of a Gamecube gamepad. Mario Galaxy was awesome because of gravity, and that could have easily been done with Gamecube controls. Super Paper Mario, Mario Kart, and Smash Brothers Brawel would have all functioned just fine on a Gamecube pad.

Then there were the games that were actively harmed by forcing Wii Remote controls. New Super Mario plays better on the DS than the Wii. The SuperNES controller layout fits that game style perfectly, which the DS delivers upon. On the Wii, we were limited to a pair of buttons, with a stupid shaking motion to pick items up. I didn't have to shake the NES controller to pick things up in Mario 2. Why did I have to here? Metroid M was a return to the Super Metroid style, forced on to a stupid NES style controller. Yes, half of that game's problem was that Samus was suddenly a whining little girl, but the other half of the problem was the terrible control scheme. There is a whole host of further games that fit in to this catagory, but I have long since gotten rid of them. Mad World is the first thing that comes to mind. Far too often the issue with Wii Remote controls was simply a matter of motion recognition. Just like with voice controls in games on other systems, motion is great until the moment that it doesn't register your command. Then it is immediately a broken piece of crap.

Finally we have Xenoblade. They forced a Wiimote control scheme, as that is what everyone owns by default. Of note is that this control scheme uses zero motion, and zero pointing. It's just a bunch of buttons spread across two sticks, without a dedicated camera control. They also support the Classic Controller, which is where the control scheme works correctly. They pretty much said "Hey, if you can, just set the Wiimote to the side and use a real gamepad to play this game." In the end, a Nintendo owned studio gave up in Wii controls.

In short, the Wii had some fantastic games. Rarely did the Wiimote ever improve anything though, and far too often the Wiimote ruined what would have otherwise been an enjoyable experience.

What about the rest of the system? All of the downloadable widgets were genuinely interesting. They certainly had a distinctly Japanese flavor to them, but they were fun. Mii integration works great! So well in fact that Microsoft stole the idea and improved upon it quite a bit. Sony also tried to steal the idea, but their execution was unbelievably poor. It would have been nice to see Nintendo make a more concerted effort to bring us weird little widgets. I would have liked to see a new thing monthly, instead of rarely and sporadically. Hiring a team of ten to spit out widgets would have given me more reasons to turn the thing on. From mid-2009 until now, I've really only brought my Wii up to check out something new that had shown up. The last game I really spent some serious time playing on it was Mario Galaxy. The first one.

The Virtual Console is a great idea, poorly executed upon. The store is in horrible disarray. While I like the idea of playing N64 games in 480p, reality proved otherwise. I spent probably $60 on Virtual Console items, played Super Metroid for three hours, and nothing else. There is just too much new stuff coming out elsewhere to spend my time on games I already played 15 years ago.

The Balance Board is interesting, but eventually proved to be pretty pointless.

Motion Plus is the Wii's 32x. Splitting the market is stupid. Nintendo should be less stupid.

Overall, I spent probably $1500-2000 on the Wii over it's life, and it has been my least used console in history. It's not like I didn't give it a chance. You don't spend that much on a console without trying out a bunch of stuff that looks interesting. Unfortunately, most of what was on offer turned out to be pretty mediocre. Even when things were absolutely brilliant as with Metriod Prime 3, there was still the nagging "Man, I wish this was at least 720p" always in mind.

Don't get me wrong, I have always thought that I genuinely like the Wii. It's a nifty little system that tried out something new. Flipping through the integrated "when was the last time you turned it on?" system though proves that overall, the thing just wasn't that interesting. Nintendo still makes some fantastic games. I just want to play them in HD, on a gamepad, and with the 3D slider in the "off" position.
post #2 of 16
I mainly bought the Wii for widescreen Zelda, my component cables actually arrived the same day as my Ebay bought Wii ($450 shipped) I had my extra remote and copy of Zelda since launch. After the Gamecube, I was itching for Nintendo's new system.

(Side Note)

As for Mystwalker, they gave us Lost Odyssey, arguably the best JRPG this generation. (the 1000 year stories are so well written) I am sad that I still haven't gotten to play the game through (so much came out as I was starting it that I shelved it for something else and never got back to it, something I hope to correct shortly) So yes, I have high hopes for The Last Story.

(End Side Note)

As for Wii remote controls, I was never sold on them, I play RE4 and Metroid Prime far better with a controller than I ever could manage with that convoluted Wii remote setup. (Never Mind that Metroid prime collection turned off several effects to achieve 480p widescreen, something else I didn't like) There wasn't a single game that I didn't think would have been better with a Gamecube controller (One Exception will be mentioned later), which I used at every opportunity. (Wii Sports lost my attention quickly as I figured out how to get perfect scores in almost every game. (bowling was particularly easy) Prime 3 is the low point in that series, disjointed, linear, it wasn't a proper Metroid, it was Hunters for the Wii.

I HATED the controls in Galaxy, they were a massive step back from Sunshine and even 64, was easily the series low point for platforming, stuff that was second nature to me in Sunshine just never worked in Galaxy, I never even finished the second game, I just kept cursing it until I went back to Sunshine and was finally playing a game where I couldn't blame the controls for my deaths.

Metroid Fan's RANT incoming,

Metroid Other M.... Oh Boy, didn't mind the limited controls, hated the first person segments, and the story only had one good element, Adam sacrificing himself. (Metroid Fusion is my favorite in the series and is the sole reason I completed this) Samus went whiny scardy girl for no reason. She had fought Ridley TWICE at that point (Other M pretends that the Prime series never happened, Metroid fans pretend that Other M never happened) NO EXCUSE FOR A FREAKOUT!

End Rant.

My Wii highpoint was Skyward Sword, the ONLY game I feel did motion controls right, I got the Limited Edition with the Gold remote just so I wouldn't have to buy a Motion Plus seperate. (A special thanks to my buddy who had the night off on Black Friday and stashed a copy in the clothing department so I could buy it on break) ANYONE WHO OWNS A WII NEEDS TO PLAY THIS GAME!

I never even tried the Virtual Console, why should I? I have a PC that can crank out N64 games at 1080p Widescreen with AA cranked and not even tax my outdated hunk of junk PC. (Rest in Peace) Modern Machines can add HD texture Packs to the games that bring new life to them. I had my hacked PSP for everything else. Why rebuy my classic collections on a system where I have no guarentee that I will still have access to them 10 years from now? This is my biggest issue with digital games, and I wont pay for something that can be taken away from me by the content provider.

Overall, to me the Wii was a disapointment, the games were lacking due to a controller that just didn't work for 90% of the games on the system, Smash Bros. lacked the spark that Melee had (60 hours vs 250 days... yep, I loved Melee alright) Mario Kart was a pain to play on a controller (setup was a pain), and Galaxy was the worst Mario that I have ever played.

The Gamecube is one of my favorite systems in history, I put so much time into various games on the system, I had very high hopes for the Wii, and until Skyward Sword hit, I felt it had been a bit of a waste. I look forward to the Wii U, hoping that I can get some of the magic that the GCN had, and at the same time, getting some of the Wii games that I missed out on for pennies as they are firesaled. Nintendo, please give us HD remakes, so many games could benefit from them.

Wow, that felt good to let it all out, now I want to do the same for the 360 and PS3.
post #3 of 16
I feel like I'm one of the few that is more of a "hardcore" gamer than a casual one and yet was totally happy with the Wii for most of its life. I was getting kind of sick of videogames by the end of the GameCube's lifecycle--it seemed like we were getting the same games over and over again and the thought of being forced to pick up a new console every half-decade or so just so I could look at slightly shinier graphics didn't seem appealing to me. That's why I was so enthralled by the Wii. It finally offered something new, something that said, "Here are games that are fun because games should be fun, not because we can try really hard to make them as much like movies as possible."

It's only been in the last couple years, when the quality games have truly dried up and I've seen some real stunning PS3 games, that I've started seeing the Wii like everyone else has. But I dunno. It's still my favorite system of this generation, overall. It gave me, in no particular order:

Wii Sports/Resort
Wii Fit
Mario Galaxy 1&2
Metroid Prime 3
New Super Mario Bros Wii
Smash Bros Brawl
No More Heroes
Skyward Sword
Boom Blox 1&2
Silent Hill Shattered Memories
Mario Kart Wii

A lot of those rank of some of my favorite gaming experiences, ever, and all of them provided lasting memories. Not all of them employed motion controls, but so what? I consider the multiple control options available on Wii to be a strength, not a weakness. (No one criticizes DS games that forgo the touchscreen, after all.) It's a fallacy to construe Xenoblade's emphasis on the classic controller as a condemnation of motion controls. If anything it's an admission that some games work well with motion control, some don't--and you should never shoehorn them into the latter. Admittedly, this is a lesson the Wii could've stood to have learned much earlier.

Yeah, some of that list above arguably would have been better without motion controls, though I would hardly say any of them were ruined. And let's not forget this is all subjective: I'm most likely in the minority, especially on this board, in preferring motion controls if they work well enough and add to the immersion (read: FUN), even if they aren't as precise as traditional controllers.

What isn't subjective, however, is that much of the above list would've been impossible, pointless, or unremarkable without motion controls. They simply wouldn't exist. I'm not sure I'll ever have another gaming moment on the level of the first time I picked up a Wiimote to try Wii Sports, and there certainly wasn't any other system I enjoyed playing with my parents and nephew alike, something that finally let me share my lifetime hobby with them. And Nintendo creating the Wiimote made its rivals sit up and take notice, and think a bit differently about the industry for once (well, Microsoft, anyway. Sony just blatantly copied), which led directly to another of my favorite games of this gen, Dance Central.

This isn't to say that I've been totally happy with the Wii over the span of its lifetime. There have certainly been...missteps, to say the least. I don't even need to go into how abysmal the online component has been, or how confoundedly luddite Nintendo can be about stuff that should be industry-standard now, such as hard drives. I maintain that the Wii was a great, needed concept, but let's just say the follow-up after the initial wow factor of the system was somewhat lacking. Letting tons of shovelware with tacked-on motion controls let their innovation be easily painted as a fad, and Nintendo themselves took far too long to deliver on fully realizing the concepts seen in the tech demo that was Wii Sports. Skyward Sword is a near-perfect fusing of the old and new, and it's a damn shame that Nintendo released it at the end of the Wii's life cycle, rather than the start. It could've been a game that said to devs, "This is how you should do things," instead of "This is how things should've been done all this time."

But looking back, I'd characterize the Wii as a great idea...hobbled and eventually crippled by some ass-terrible follow-up. All in all though, I think it is something that needed to happen in the industry, and I'm certainly glad it did. Even now, as I've shifted my gaming attentions more to the PS3, I often find that most of those games are simply an entertaining way to pass the time, rather than something I truly, actively enjoy, like I did the best Wii games.
post #4 of 16
Great thread james, and really fantastic posts so far- here's to hoping we get more comments, this topic is already interesting and should be a read into how techno-files like us view gaming in the HD/3D age. Overall I echo everyone else's thoughts: I think the Wii is a perfect example of how to totally mess up a perfect situation. I love my Wii, it it's been a long, torturous relationship.

I was in the minority for a long, long time: Despite gaming occasionally on Sega, PS1 & 2, and even PC, I was a Nintendo-only console snob. I literally only owned products Ninety produced... up until, for whatever reason, I bought a Dreamcast just after launch and then totally ignored the GameCube for it's natural lifespan. I was never a real 'gamer' per se, but I loved to game and was always up for trying something new or adding to my backlog of shame on old consoles. When the Wii released to great fanfare and critical acclaim I held out as long as I could, but bit the bullet in the summer of 2007.

My first game was Super Mario Galaxy, and I hated it.

I couldn't nail the controls at all, and I felt like the constant need to wave the controller was a useless waste of time and energy. Same thing happened when I tried Elebits, MadWorld... the Wii Sports stuff and minigame collections were fun party games, but the main titles never grabbed me due largely to the lack of reliance on and accuracy of the motion controls. Wii turned into a GCN emulator for me, and strangely enough made me a huge fan of the old girl. I've got nearly as many GCN games now as I do Wii titles, and I'm still getting through that backlog with a huge smile on my face. If the Wii delivered nothing beyond retro Gamecube goodness and party games I'd probably be satisfied with the purchase, but my opinion of the Wii changed literally overnight when I discovered the awesomeness it brought to on-rails games...

HotD:Overkill, Dead Space, Dangerous Hunts, Umbrella Chronicles... all top shelf arcade-at-home experiences. Once I was in the mood to use a different set up like the Wii/chuck setup I started gaining interest in games that used the Wiimote in ways that made you the character on screen, like Force Unleashed, Ghostbusters (man, how I love being a 'buster) and Metroid Prime 3. It wasn't long before I 'got' the idea behind the motion controls and really fell for the gimmick. I even started to appreciate balance board games like Marble Saga Kororinpa, Monkey Ball, Shaun White Snowboarding, and to some degree Punch Out! even benefited from the extra challenge the Wii controls added. By the time I got back to great game like SMG and DKCR I was hooked on the fun that Ninty brought back to video gaming. Not just challenge or hardcore, but honest to goodness fun to play games.

Looking back, I feel like a lot of multi-platform Wii games are better on Wii, but because not everyone was sold on motion controls or the 480p resolution they were overlooked. Shattered Memories was amazing on Wii, Tomb Raider Anniversary was mostly the better version, and Goldeneye is almost perfect on Wii.

So basically it's a shame but absolutely true: Nintendo went arrogantly into this gen with an obviously out of date console and, save for "shake the controller!" a non-existent strategy to keep up their pace... because Nintendo will always be able to sell Nintendo games on any Nintendo console and they don't care to try to move into anything else. Their online is utter crap, third party development fell to nil after about year 2, and the peripheral support and marketing were a joke of Sega proportions. Anyone could have made money with DCKR, NSMBW, SMG 1 & 2, and based on what I've heard of WiiU rumors, we're likely to exactly that and nothing more from the next Wii console. NES rescued video games in the 80's, Wii might have been able to do that

Wii has honestly provided some of my all time favorite gaming moments, and that's not an easy task considering I've been gaming since the early 80's... but it ultimately fell short of it's potential because the boys from Kyoto got fat and happy being on top the the heap again. I'll always enjoy my little white box, but I could have enjoyed it so much more with just a tiny bit more effort from Ninty...

post #5 of 16
I thought NBA Jam totally kicked ass. It was way more fun on the Wii than on the 360 and PS3. Also, fantastic memories with Mario Strikers Charged. But yeah, not much on my Wii shelf.

I hate digital downloads, and ironically my favorite Wii games were WiiWare. The Bit Trip series, Final Fantasy IV The After Years, and the Konami Rebirth stuff completely blew me away.
post #6 of 16
I think we have a few more nice games to look forward to.

Even if it doesn't get a North American release, the Fatal Frame 2 remake is another game in the pipeline that I'm looking forward to. Confirmed for Europe which means importing it and playing it on a soft modded Wii will be easy enough. And I'm optimistic if that does well that maybe we'll finally see Fatal Frame IV leave Japan and at least reach Europe. The homebrew translation effort was admirable, but it isn't without issues and a Japanese copy of the game is pricey these days.

And the daydreamer in me has a glimmer of hope that it does well enough in Europe where NOA considers releasing both of them in a double pack here in North America. Successful sales of this new 3DS spinoff also wouldn't hurt their chances.

Besides the already mentioned Last Story (I don't hold out much hope for NOA releasing any Fatal Frame content on the Wii), Pandora's Tower is another game I see people looking forward to. Just released in Europe and people seem optimistic that it stands a chance in North America now due to the success Xenoblade seems to be enjoying. Dragon Quest X is another big one that I think quite a few people are hoping will reach our shores. And several other lesser known names that have been released recently elsewhere or are still in the pipeline that I see getting mentioned from time to time like Rhodea Sky Soldier (Content most certainly not in the same level as Xenoblade, but still interesting enough where it has caught some people's attention).

And of course there's Epic Mickey 2 (Not that I'm suggesting it's going to be a AAA game mind you, but it's something for Wii owners to look forward to that isn't shovelware... although with it also on the HD consoles, I'd just buy it there if I ever decide to).

And there are several nice games that are translated and never made it to our shores that might become more attractive now just to have some decent software to sell to the millions of Wii owners still actively using the system. I could see NOA picking up and releasing the Pikmin 2 rerelease finally for one example. Particularly if they really are working on a Pikmin 3 for the WiiU like I think is rumored, I could see that specific example being a good release candidate. The series has had a long absence so a Pikmin 2 release could kill two birds with one stone by providing Wii owners with a new game of decent quality while getting the long idle franchise some much needed attention if a sequel is really on the way.

And I expect the Nintendo Selects line will get a new round of releases this Fall to help keep Wii owners busy. Looking forward to picking up a few games that I've missed that I think are logical candidates for it this Fall (I've yet to buy Super Mario Galaxy 2 or Wii Sports Resort for instance). Mario Kart Wii is another choice I bet will see rerelease in that lineup (Although I've owned that one since launch). I think Skyward Sword is the only big Nintendo game that I think we can safely view as not being a candidate for a budget rerelease this year due to being so new.

For me, the Wii has been fun. Lots of nice 1st party games in traditional Nintendo series, the occasional fun casual game (Wii Sports got a lot of use here for one example), the occasional excellent 3rd party release (RE4 and the House of the Dead 2/3 Collection come to mind as examples), several nice classic compilations like Data East Arcade Classics and SNK Arcade Classics Volume 1 that I found as pleasant additions, and quite a few others. And near perfect GCN compatibility was great to have (And utilizing GCN controllers in things like Mario Kart Wii was a positive byproduct of GCN support).

Also the Virtual Console has been fun and added to the experience I think. First of all, I liked the convenience of it all (Many of the games I've bought I also own in original form, but it's nice to have some classics easily available without changing to a different system). As such I've bought several favorites, helped also due to the clarity of component video that gives many of these games a nice visual boost compared to the original hardware (including several N64 games that look particularly nice compared to when running on original hardware.. the blurryness that was always there is gone on the Wii) save states for earlier games (Nice for games that never had any saving capability or games that used passwords), and not having to rely on battery backed saves (More than a few game saves on systems like the SuperNes have been lost on me over the years when a game didn't load correctly the first try or the system was bumped as I played, so that's another reason why I've rebought things like Link to the Past and Super Mario World).

I have played or replayed through many favorites on it over the years. Just finished earning 120 stars in Super Mario 64 a few months ago, got all 96 exits on Super Mario World a few weeks ago (Probably for the 12th time or so over the past 20 years), and I just reached the final Bowser fight last night in Paper Mario for some recent examples (Never played Paper Mario on the original hardware, great game and I can't believe how nice it still looks).

Some flaws include with it though include...
-Emulation issues (The NES emulator is too dark, the TG16 emulator is a bit fuzzy).
-Consumers being left in the dark never knowing what's in the pipeline for release.
-PAL owners still often face the same old PAL issues that were commonplace back in the day.
-The near abandonment of it by NOA after a very successful first couple of years.
-The slow release schedule even at its height of success and support.
-The lack of control by 3rd parties (Capcom and Konami are both on the record of submitting all their nonlicensed NES and SuperNes games to NOA for approval, yet NOA barely has released any of it).
-The failure of Nintendo to actively recruit publishers to support the service.
-The high cost of the games. Being asked to pay $5 for a NES game at a time when great original projects on XBLA were starting to come out for $5-$10 was just too high.
-The failure of Nintendo to include its own arcade catalog of games.
-DLC being tied to a console instead of an account.
-No Super FX support (No Yoshi's Island, no Star Fox, and no Star Fox 2 is disappointing).
-The N64 emulator doesn't support rumble (Even with a wired GCN controller) or memory pack support on a system with half a gig of internal memory.
-Several platforms seeing limited support (C64 died as quick as it was added to our VC, the N64 never even got every 1st party game let alone any 3rd party content, the arcade section is pitiful, etc.).
-Ignoring early American platforms and handheld platforms.
-The inability to remap buttons (Try playing any NES SMB game with a Classic Controller with A & B rigidly mapped to A & B on the CC, good luck running and jumping at the same time).

Outside of software complaints (Many great games to be had, but there's plenty of room for complaining in that department), some complaints about the Wii in general that come to mind include the following. The long wait before SD storage was enabled for DLC, Nintendo's early refusal to allow Classic Controllers to be used outside of the Virtual Console, motion controls being tacked in just for the sake of being able to say they support motion (Darklordjames' mention of Twilight Princess which could've easily included optional GCN controller support and the bit of motion control needlessly wedged into NSMBWii are two excellent examples), the inability to navigate the Wii menus with a GCN controller, and the Classic Controller and the NunChuck being wired instead of wireless.

At a time when wireless controllers had gotten good enough and finally hooked me (The WaveBird is what convinced me), I found having the Classic Controller and the NunChuck being wired as a bit of a nuisance. Was nice not being tethered to the console, but they should've went all the way.

Oh and that name is something I've hated since day 1.
post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, thanks for the long and thought filled responses!
post #8 of 16
Looking ahead, I see very few games for current hardware that I want to buy. Xenoblade has shown that raw horsepower means jack for a good game. (it does so much in game that most games have to rely on CG for) and has actually gotten me more excited for the Wii U. I may actually stand in line for a Wii U on launch...

And is there a list of games that support the classic controller? I find myself oddly in love with the feel of this thing, it feels like a perfected SNES controller.
post #9 of 16
I'm shocked that two of my favorite Wii games haven't been mentioned here...Muramasa(no motion, but a brilliant game) and Okami(PS2 game that I feel was perfected through the addition of motion).
post #10 of 16
I really couldn't stand Muramasa. The controls were overcomplicated (hold down, then hold A, then release A, then hold right) and the story was the played out amnesiac.
post #11 of 16
Originally Posted by moothemagiccow View Post

I really couldn't stand Muramasa. The controls were overcomplicated (hold down, then hold A, then release A, then hold right) and the story was the played out amnesiac.

Would the classic controller help?
post #12 of 16
Not quite as insightful as our discussion -in fact, it's about 50% bashing- but there's similar thread over at Neogaf. Some good points, some lousy 2 word posts... good read if you have some time, though.

post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 
Nobody should ever read Neogaf looking for anything more than 12 year old fanboys whining that their dongs aren't long enough. Voodoo, you made a great post earlier. Why ruin it by recommending that we go read that garbage? Shame!
post #14 of 16
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

Nobody should ever read Neogaf looking for anything more than 12 year old fanboys whining that their dongs aren't long enough. Voodoo, you made a great post earlier. Why ruin it by recommending that we go read that garbage? Shame!

LOL! Tl;dr.

I did find it ironic, though, that despite the obvious hardcore FPS fans leaning against the Wii, this video posted over there shows there's at least 30+ console defining games on Wii, spread over every single genre... That's impressive, regardless how many you wanna disqualify because they're first party Ninty games or multiplatform.


I got to thinking, including GCN, VC, Wiiware and Wii games... Wii is absolutely hands down my most played console in pure hours logged. Even more than my old school GameBoy that I played for 10+ years, more than NES despite endless sleepovers and after school marathons as a kid... And those SNES and N64 all nighter combat sessions in college, too.

post #15 of 16
Thanks. That video just made my Wii Shopping list even longer.
post #16 of 16
Wow, that was an awesome video. I may have to track down some of those now....
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