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Just got the HC4000- not happy, set up or swap projectors to W6000?

post #1 of 15
4/10/12 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
So I settled on an HC4000 based on reviews and feedback and received it yesterday.

On my first EXTREMELY unscientific watch, where the projector is not mounted and I did not set my screen up but instead showed it on my wall which is not white but an off white color I have mixed feelings on it. As I said in a previous thread, I am coming from a Pioneer Kuro Elite 151, so I am used to extremely high PQ.

With the lights turned off, the image quality looked pretty good, but with the lights on, the image was unsatisfactory. I have been researching projectors still and am considering swapping the HC4000 out for the epson 8700, the acer 9500 or the benq w6000(3d isn't that important to me but if all things were equal, would like it).

However I also realize the way I have the set up to be is a terrible way to judge anything, I just don't want to set things up until I know its the projector I want(or that a projector will give me what I need).

How much better will my PQ be when:

1) Its on a white screen instead of a yellowish wall?

2) When the projector is mounted, it will sit above the lamp I use in the basement. There are no outside windows. It seemed to me when I picked the projector up by hand above the light, the image seemed much darker. When its mounted it will be at least 8 feet above how high I picked it up to as well.


Thoughts? Will a real set up improve my PQ a lot? Am I better off upgrading to one of those other projectors?

One thing to keep in mind- I do play games, and so the 8700 and 9500 seem to have more input lag, which means I'm really leaning to the w6000 or 9500. Will the image upgrade be massive with the w6000? Any 8700 users that don't think there is a lot of lag?
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post #2 of 15
4/10/12 at 8:15am
Seems to me you'll never know with any of the projectors until you set them all up exactly like you want them. How could you compare the others with the Mits if you displayed them on the white screen & Mits on the wall? Did you burn in and calibrate any of them? You have a lot of time and fond memories with the Kuro under a set of specific conditions. Maybe none of them will stack up with your Kuro video memories. I say you can beat them with a little more effort. My advice would be set up your theater or room exactly how you want it to be. Play the Mits on a variety of settings and light situations. Write your reactions down. If you don't like it, swap it out for one of the others, and repeat until you find the model you like. It's out there. You just gotta work a little to find it. May even already have it.
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post #3 of 15
4/10/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougFlud View Post

So I settled on an HC4000 based on reviews and feedback and received it yesterday.

On my first EXTREMELY unscientific watch,

With the lights turned off, the image quality looked pretty good, but with the lights on, the image was unsatisfactory.

You need set this up JUST like your old projector including room color and conditions (where it is mounted won't matter unless the screen is angular or Retrorelective high gain) , calibrate the projector and view in those same conditions.. or change your expectations A LOT" You will never get a good image on some yellowish paint, in a room that is light yellow walls or with lights on.. a flat screen is the way to go if you want to watch with lights on.. just a fact of the physics!
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post #4 of 15
4/10/12 at 10:34am
hate to be harsh but this is plain ridiculous.

Do you expect your local theater to have the lights on during a film? Do you expect your local theater to have a yellow screen? I mean seriously.

If you are too lazy to setup the projector correctly you should seriously just pick up a flat panel display and be done with it.
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post #5 of 15
4/10/12 at 10:42am
Thread Starter 
that can work in some ambient light is ridiculous.


Plenty of people watch projectors on a room with some light- as I said, I have no windows so I can control the light.
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post #6 of 15
4/10/12 at 11:02am
You may want to do a bit more research on what "Control the light" actually means. You can watch with some light or with no external light and light colored walls, but the image is going to suck unless you buy one of the exotic screens that are meant to help with that type of environment (lots of light be it form outside sources or reflected screen light.
All we are saying is you are complaining that the image sucks and anyone would expect it to suck when you are doing what you are doing..
There is a reason dedicated theaters are painted DARK colors and the Ceilings are Black.. and there are no reflective surfaces.. cause that is how it has to be!
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post #7 of 15
4/10/12 at 11:12am
Front projector and any type of TV are very different. You will not be happy with almost any front PJ if you want to be able to read a book (light level) in the same room.
You are also using a "relatively cheap" PJ You have an expensive flat panel and are comparing it to, in the projector world, an above average cheaper projector. You will have to spend a lot more say a SOny 95, Mits HC-9000, Runco LS-10, etc to get the kind of light output at the correct color temp.

However, you do need a screen. A high gain screen can help or a gray screen etc.

What do you plan to use your system for... gaming, movie, sports, B&W movies etc. This comes into play on which projector is better for you.
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post #8 of 15
4/10/12 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougFlud View Post

... With the lights turned off, the image quality looked pretty good, but with the lights on, the image was unsatisfactory. ...

This is exactly what should be expected with pretty much any projector.

Control the room/exterior light; use a decent screen; and the 4000 will produce a very good image. Not like a Kuro, but what else can do that?
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post #9 of 15
4/10/12 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the words- I DO have a screen. I just haven't installed everything yet. I guess I wasn't totally clear to start- I am just trying to decide if setting everything up will improve my PQ or if I am better off getting a w6000.
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post #10 of 15
4/10/12 at 1:49pm
Yes setting everything up will improve things greatly, but will it be p to what you want or expect that is a different question.

The W6000 is good in many of the same ways.
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post #11 of 15
4/10/12 at 2:35pm
The Mits is not a good projector for dealing with ANY ambient light, you need a room with dark interior and no light to get the most from it. The w6000 is brighter, sharper, and has darker blacks, but it's also louder and edgier in the sense the IRIS has to kick in a lot and the Mits doesn't need an IRIS. Both the Benq's fans and IRIS make it a noisier projector if you sit close. The Mits has better color OOTB, the Benq calibrates just as well though. No projector looks good in ambient light IMHO, they all look washed out in some scenes when you flip the lights on. The bright scenes can look ok in ambient light if you have tons of spare lumens.
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post #12 of 15
4/10/12 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
Would the w6000 be better for watching sports in the daytime with one lamp on? Also I'm not sure if this matters but the lamp is an overhead lamp that sits above my head and has a diffuser and the light is pointed downward. Its a relatively large room(like 500 square feet) with just the one lamp.
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post #13 of 15
4/10/12 at 5:45pm
Yes, the brighter the projector the better, how much better is impossible to know without seeing it in your setup. The Panny ar100u is even brighter than both, but the PQ isn't as good as the Benq.
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post #14 of 15
4/10/12 at 5:58pm
With both of them calibrated in their respective cinema modes you can expect the W6000 to give you an extra 300 lumens. You have to remember that with the lower cost projectors you NEED to utilize light control to get the best black level response and contrast. Both projectors will go brighter if you want to sacrifice image quality by using each projectors brightest modes and enabling brilliant color. But both of those options will give you colors far from D65. You should know that the W7000 is a LOT brighter and will work better in ambient light. Check out Art's review over at projector reviews. The W6000 D65 = 866 lumens vs W7000 D65 1300 lumens. I don't know if you're willing to pony up the extra dough for the W7000. If you really must watch in ambient light the W7000 is probably your best bet. But please do NOT expect the PQ of these projectors to come anywhere near your Kuro. You need to realize these are entry level/lower mid level projectors.

You could also look into high gain screens like the black diamond screen from SI. As others have said, you really ought to check out the Mitsubishi on something a bit better than a wall.
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post #15 of 15
4/10/12 at 6:22pm
The w6000 is more like 1000 lumens at closest throw. Art reviewed a particular sample and his measurements are from mid-zoom. The reviewers measurements for this projector are all over the place though. PJC's measurements were wrong and based on an earlier production sample. Zombie measured more like 1050 lumens on the w7000 for best mode, and he also thinks the brightness is only a little more than the w6000. The main thing making the w7000 brighter just appears to be a closer OOTB mode to D65, hence more calibration is required on the w6000 which causes it to have a little dimmer of a best mode, overall they are relatively close in brightness.

A good estimate is that the Benq w7000 is only 10% to 20% brighter than the w6000, it could be 30% but Zombie was more careful in his lumen measurements than other reviewers (I got exact positioning info from him when he took the measurements).
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