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Want to build a Kick A$$ 10"

post #1 of 26
4/10/12 at 6:49pm
Thread Starter 
Hi guys, been a while since I built my last Sub which was a SS sonosub which I got great help from on this forum. This project is of a much smaller size and is to aid my small boston book shelfs powered by a Sonos ZP120 in my bedroom.

Because its in the beedroom the better half would like this to be fairly small thus my need for a 10". I really am open to suggestions on any configuration wheather its sealed or ported. In turms of price.....lets just say I want it to be heard, if there is hardware out there in the form of a 10" driver amd amp that can compete with a 12" of lesser quality than that will do it for me. I would however like to stay under $750 for driver and amp.

Any help would be great.
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post #2 of 26
4/10/12 at 7:36pm
What size box can you fit in your room? A ported 10" could end up the same size as a sealed 15". Any reason your stuck on a 10" driver?
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post #3 of 26
4/10/12 at 7:46pm
Thread Starter 
Went with a 10 because of WAF. I would probably go with a ported 10 if the cabinet can stay fairly small. The room is 16 x 18.
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post #4 of 26
4/10/12 at 8:06pm
How about this? http://www.creativesound.ca/details....ubwoofer%20Kit

that would be super sweet in a bedroom system. Just build the cab and done!!
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post #5 of 26
4/10/12 at 8:25pm
deleted. driver no longer available.
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post #6 of 26
4/10/12 at 9:02pm
The choice is easy (yet is a slippery slope). Go Dayton 10" titanic sealed. Problem solved. Though I don't know if it works downfiring.
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post #7 of 26
4/10/12 at 9:03pm
Slippery slope is.. I just built a kick ass 15", now I want a 12, a 10, and an 8. The obsession doesn't end.. you've been warned.
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post #8 of 26
4/10/12 at 11:54pm
IMO, I would recommend at least a 15" if you want something close to "kick ass". Go with the largest speaker and speaker cab you have the room for.
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post #9 of 26
4/11/12 at 1:37am
I like N8DOGG's suggestion. Another option, a pair of RSS265HF 8 ohm dual opposed in a 16" cube, with the O-Audio 500W amp. The boost on the 20hz filter will get this playing pretty low.
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post #10 of 26
4/11/12 at 4:11am
The TC Sounds Epic 10, occasionally on sale for $139 or $149, has more extension and can handle more power and therefor will play louder than the Dayton 10". Best for your purpose though is it is happy in a much smaller box than the Dayton 10" - as small as .5 cu.ft. per driver vs 1.4 cu.ft (sealed). I built mine sealed in 18" x 14.5" x 14.5" dual opposed with Crown xti2000 DSP amp driving and equalizing 2 pairs of them flat to 20 hz. (guessing that an Inuke1000 DSP would be fine for 1 pair)
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post #11 of 26
4/11/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfiestang50 View Post

Hi guys, been a while since I built my last Sub which was a SS sonosub which I got great help from on this forum. This project is of a much smaller size and is to aid my small boston book shelfs powered by a Sonos ZP120 in my bedroom.

Because its in the beedroom the better half would like this to be fairly small thus my need for a 10". I really am open to suggestions on any configuration wheather its sealed or ported.

Sealed. Pick a driver with a relatively stiff suspension (low VAS) so that it doesn't sag too much in a down-firing box and the resonance doesn't increase too much thus requiring more equalization than you can provide. Get reasonable extension in the small box using a Linkwitz Transform. My down-firing bedroom 10" sub-woofers measure 14x14, 7.5" high without the feet, 10.5" high with, and are equalized to be -3dB @ 30Hz and -6dB @ 20Hz.
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post #12 of 26
4/12/12 at 6:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxjr View Post

IMO, I would recommend at least a 15" if you want something close to "kick ass". Go with the largest speaker and speaker cab you have the room for.

Cant go 15", cabinet size will not allow it.
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post #13 of 26
4/12/12 at 6:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post

Sealed. Pick a driver with a relatively stiff suspension (low VAS) so that it doesn't sag too much in a down-firing box and the resonance doesn't increase too much thus requiring more equalization than you can provide. Get reasonable extension in the small box using a Linkwitz Transform. My down-firing bedroom 10" sub-woofers measure 14x14, 7.5" high without the feet, 10.5" high with, and are equalized to be -3dB @ 30Hz and -6dB @ 20Hz.

Do you have any details on this build, I am interested in that size. What is a Linkwitz Transform.
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post #14 of 26
4/13/12 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNC View Post

The TC Sounds Epic 10, occasionally on sale for $139 or $149, has more extension and can handle more power and therefor will play louder than the Dayton 10". Best for your purpose though is it is happy in a much smaller box than the Dayton 10" - as small as .5 cu.ft. per driver vs 1.4 cu.ft (sealed). I built mine sealed in 18" x 14.5" x 14.5" dual opposed with Crown xti2000 DSP amp driving and equalizing 2 pairs of them flat to 20 hz. (guessing that an Inuke1000 DSP would be fine for 1 pair)

Actually, I like this idea for your purposes. Since the TC sounds 10 likes a small box, use 2 of them dual opposed in a small sealed enclosure. You'll get a lot out of a small size. If I didn't have the space, or lived in a condo with neighbors sharing walls, I'd go for this.
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post #15 of 26
4/13/12 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfiestang50 View Post

Do you have any details on this build, I am interested in that size.

Many details.

I built Siegfried Linkwitz's Pluto+ design to go with my Pluto main speakers in our bedroom system but paid more attention to building an attractive cabinet (the corners are mitered, the top panel is picture framed with 4/4 birch heartwood, and the bottom is flush with another hardwood frame that makes the feet, and it's finished in shellac rubbed out to a satin finish). The most interesting part of the project is probably the cross-over to the main speakers which also uses a Linkwitz Transform to provide an LR4 acoustic response.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/subwoofer.htm

There are spread sheets there so you can see what happens with various box, driver, and power combinations. The same principles will apply to bigger and/or different setups.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Closed-Box-WithDriverDb.xls

Quote:


What is a Linkwitz Transform.

The Linkwitz Transform is a biquad providing a pair of high-pass poles plus a pair of zeroes (which cancel high-pass poles) implemented using a single op-amp invented by Siegfried Linkwitz.

It lets you pick a box size for aesthetics, driver for excursion and perhaps power handling, with some latitude on the Thiele-Small parameters and mate the two with your choice of resonance and Q.

The Peerless SLS in 14 liters has Fb 74.2Hz Qb 1.57. The Linkwitz Transform adjusts its low frequency response to have system resonance at 20Hz Q=0.5.
LL
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LL
LL
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post #16 of 26
4/15/12 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNC View Post

The TC Sounds Epic 10, occasionally on sale for $139 or $149, has more extension and can handle more power and therefor will play louder than the Dayton 10". Best for your purpose though is it is happy in a much smaller box than the Dayton 10" - as small as .5 cu.ft. per driver vs 1.4 cu.ft (sealed). I built mine sealed in 18" x 14.5" x 14.5" dual opposed with Crown xti2000 DSP amp driving and equalizing 2 pairs of them flat to 20 hz. (guessing that an Inuke1000 DSP would be fine for 1 pair)

Anyone know of a build using one or two of these dual opposed that I could follow or use in my build.
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post #17 of 26
4/15/12 at 11:31am
I havent herd any one mention any speakers from sundown audio..
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post #18 of 26
4/15/12 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post

Many details.

I built Siegfried Linkwitz's Pluto+ design to go with my Pluto main speakers in our bedroom system but paid more attention to building an attractive cabinet (the corners are mitered, the top panel is picture framed with 4/4 birch heartwood, and the bottom is flush with another hardwood frame that makes the feet, and it's finished in shellac rubbed out to a satin finish). The most interesting part of the project is probably the cross-over to the main speakers which also uses a Linkwitz Transform to provide an LR4 acoustic response.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/subwoofer.htm

There are spread sheets there so you can see what happens with various box, driver, and power combinations. The same principles will apply to bigger and/or different setups.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Closed-Box-WithDriverDb.xls



The Linkwitz Transform is a biquad providing a pair of high-pass poles plus a pair of zeroes (which cancel high-pass poles) implemented using a single op-amp invented by Siegfried Linkwitz.

It lets you pick a box size for aesthetics, driver for excursion and perhaps power handling, with some latitude on the Thiele-Small parameters and mate the two with your choice of resonance and Q.

The Peerless SLS in 14 liters has Fb 74.2Hz Qb 1.57. The Linkwitz Transform adjusts its low frequency response to have system resonance at 20Hz Q=0.5.

Thats way over my head and to be honest I do not have the time to educate myself on it for this project. I would just like some info on a proven build that just involves a cabinet, the driver and a decent plate amp. As mentioned this package needs to be fairly small as my wife has been complaining about my 260L Sonosub for 4 years now. This Sub cant be anywhere near that size.
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post #19 of 26
4/15/12 at 5:06pm
You could do a pair of Sundown SD2-10s dual opposed. They go for around 150$ per, and have a shallow mounting depth and plenty of motor. There isn't a recent build of this configuration to model after, but a dual opposed sealed is very straightforward.
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post #20 of 26
4/15/12 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiSounds View Post

You could do a pair of Sundown SD2-10s dual opposed. They go for around 150$ per, and have a shallow mounting depth and plenty of motor. There isn't a recent build of this configuration to model after, but a dual opposed sealed is very straightforward.

So what is the configuration of dual opposed. Are the drivers mounted say one front firing and one rear firing. If so where does the plate amp go......must be in one of the sides.
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post #21 of 26
4/15/12 at 6:48pm
Most often plate amp on the back, one woofer on each side.
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post #22 of 26
4/16/12 at 7:46am
Here are the plans I drew for my build and a photo (just one now, more if you want) to go with them.

You can probably get away w/o the window brace in the middle. I would just replace it with a crossbrace of 1x2s. These boxes turned out extremely rigid and being dual opposed, you can't feel any vibration.

Epic 10s have dual 4 ohm voice calls. You wire dual opposed in series parallel for a net 2 ohm load. Or connect each driver to an amp channel as a 4 ohm load. To drive them to full excursion in these cabs you need 750W per driver. I'm sure that is overkill for a bedroom so you can save some money on the amp but even so you are looking at more than the typical 500W plate amp.

Being small sealed you need to equalize the low end, ideally with a linkwitz transform (e.g. using MiniDSP) or a pro amp with DSP using its low shelf filter.
Any questions, just ask.

Jack
LL

 

Visio-dual tcEpic10.pdf 104.1357421875k . file
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post #23 of 26
4/17/12 at 5:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNC View Post

Here are the plans I drew for my build and a photo (just one now, more if you want) to go with them.

You can probably get away w/o the window brace in the middle. I would just replace it with a crossbrace of 1x2s. These boxes turned out extremely rigid and being dual opposed, you can't feel any vibration.

Epic 10s have dual 4 ohm voice calls. You wire dual opposed in series parallel for a net 2 ohm load. Or connect each driver to an amp channel as a 4 ohm load. To drive them to full excursion in these cabs you need 750W per driver. I'm sure that is overkill for a bedroom so you can save some money on the amp but even so you are looking at more than the typical 500W plate amp.

Being small sealed you need to equalize the low end, ideally with a linkwitz transform (e.g. using MiniDSP) or a pro amp with DSP using its low shelf filter.
Any questions, just ask.

Jack

I really like this design. So what would be a good plate amp with lots of power. I would like enough power to get the most out of this sub just in case I use it somewhere else later.

Also, what miniDSP would be suitable, the website has more than one model.
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post #24 of 26
4/20/12 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNC View Post

Here are the plans I drew for my build and a photo (just one now, more if you want) to go with them.

You can probably get away w/o the window brace in the middle. I would just replace it with a crossbrace of 1x2s. These boxes turned out extremely rigid and being dual opposed, you can't feel any vibration.

Epic 10s have dual 4 ohm voice calls. You wire dual opposed in series parallel for a net 2 ohm load. Or connect each driver to an amp channel as a 4 ohm load. To drive them to full excursion in these cabs you need 750W per driver. I'm sure that is overkill for a bedroom so you can save some money on the amp but even so you are looking at more than the typical 500W plate amp.

Being small sealed you need to equalize the low end, ideally with a linkwitz transform (e.g. using MiniDSP) or a pro amp with DSP using its low shelf filter.
Any questions, just ask.

Jack

From plate amp consideration to pro amp.

First of all would the iNuke 1000dsp have enough power or will i need to go with the 3000. It says the 1000 will drive 500watts into a 2ohm load but you said that i will need 750.

Also, you mentioned that the Epic 10 has dual 4 ohm VC's....I ony see dual 2 ohm VC's on their website. Is their another model of this driver. Can I just use one VC per driver?

If it is only available in dual 2 ohm than I will need to wire each drivers Vc's in series for a 4ohm load to each amp channel.......correct? In this configuration using your model I will need at least 750watts for full excursion, is this right?
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post #25 of 26
4/21/12 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newfiestang50 View Post

I really like this design. So what would be a good plate amp with lots of power. I would like enough power to get the most out of this sub just in case I use it somewhere else later.

The most powerful plate amps I know of are from SpeakerPower. Dayton also has a 1000 watt amp.
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post #26 of 26
4/22/12 at 8:23am
re 2 ohm voice coils
I mis-spoke dual 2 ohm voice coils is correct
Dual voice coil - Series: 2Ω + 2Ω = 4Ω Dual voice coil - Parallel: 2Ω || 2Ω = 1Ω
With dual opposed wiring in series parallel you get a 2 ohm load
With a single driver wiring in series, you get a 4 ohm load

Yes, my sims show 750 watts to hit Xmax in my boxes. That is 750W per driver. The iNuke 1000 is rated only 320W per channel at 4 ohms which is a little less than half what the driver can take. I believe that is the peak rating and that the peak rating is what you want to match to the driver. If its a matter of cost, then its "only" 4 db but the drivers can handle the next bigger amp.

The iNuke 3000 DSP is rated 2x1500w into 2 ohms and 2 x 880 W into 4 ohms. With a single dual opposed box, then each channel can drive one of the Epic10s with its VCs wired in series for a 4 ohm load. The same amp can power two of the dual opposed boxes with the 2 drivers in each box wired in series parallel for a 2 ohm load. That confused me at first; I hope I haven't confused you.

Jack
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