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My last subwoofer is now dead. It's time to upgrade! Need recommendations.

post #1 of 28
4/12/12 at 1:04pm
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone,

It's my first time posting. I consider myself a junior audiophile. I don't know much but I know enough to make me dangerous. My infinity p210 is officially dead so it's time for me to upgrade but there is a lot of crap out there and I don't want to get crap. Let me rundown what my constraints are

Budget: I'm looking to spend $ 750 after shipping and all that. If I can get away cheaper then great, but 750 is my max.

Use: Home theater and video games are my top two uses but I listen to a lot of vinyl and the video game I play the most is Rock Band so music is pretty important also. For the record, I listen to strictly rock music. No rap or hip hop for this guy!

Current setup: I have a Sony STR-DG910 receiver and my towers are Infinity P253, my center is PC251, and my two rear speakers are P153.

Room size: It's your pretty standard rectangular living room. Approximately 12x20 with 8' ceilings.

Aesthetic: I'd prefer just normal black since it's the color of the rest of my gear. Size shouldn't be an issue really as long as it's your standard 10 or 12 inch sub.

I can't think of any other details. Mainly, I want it to sound amazing for music/rock band, I want to have the oomph to feel Optimus prime walking around in my living room when I'm watching blu rays and of course be able to impress my friends. I live out in the sticks so neighbors aren't too huge of an issue.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again guys!

Edited to update budget to $750.
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post #2 of 28
4/12/12 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crthiel View Post

Hi everyone,

It's my first time posting. I consider myself a junior audiophile. I don't know much but I know enough to make me dangerous. My infinity p210 is officially dead so it's time for me to upgrade but there is a lot of crap out there and I don't want to get crap. Let me rundown what my constraints are

Budget: I'm looking to spend $ 500 after shipping and all that. If I can get away cheaper then great, but 500 is my max.

Use: Home theater and video games are my top two uses but I listen to a lot of vinyl and the video game I play the most is Rock Band so music is pretty important also. For the record, I listen to strictly rock music. No rap or hip hop for this guy!

Current setup: I have a Sony STR-DG910 receiver and my towers are Infinity P253, my center is PC251, and my two rear speakers are P153.

Room size: It's your pretty standard rectangular living room. Approximately 12x20 with 8' ceilings.

Aesthetic: I'd prefer just normal black since it's the color of the rest of my gear. Size shouldn't be an issue really as long as it's your standard 10 or 12 inch sub.

I can't think of any other details. Mainly, I want it to sound amazing for music/rock band, I want to have the oomph to feel Optimus prime walking around in my living room when I'm watching blu rays and of course be able to impress my friends. I live out in the sticks so neighbors aren't too huge of an issue.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again guys!

You really want quite a bit for $500.00. At $500 I'm afraid you're going to have accept some compromises.
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post #3 of 28
4/12/12 at 1:15pm
Thread Starter 
Well, I thought my old P210 sounded great and that was only like 250$ when I bought it. So, I guess I'm just looking for something better than that.
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post #4 of 28
4/12/12 at 1:17pm
Accept some compromises and go with the Rythmik FV12 or Epik Legend.

Or increase your budget and look at much larger subwoofers or multiples.

12x20x8 is a large room and a single 12" in the $500ish range just isn't going to get you the SPLs and impact for hometheater.

The SVS PC12 NSD is a great subwoofer that would do better than just about any new subwoofer in the $500 range.
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post #5 of 28
4/12/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crthiel View Post

Hi everyone,

It's my first time posting. I consider myself a junior audiophile. I don't know much but I know enough to make me dangerous. My infinity p210 is officially dead so it's time for me to upgrade but there is a lot of crap out there and I don't want to get crap. Let me rundown what my constraints are

Budget: I'm looking to spend $ 500 after shipping and all that. If I can get away cheaper then great, but 500 is my max.

Use: Home theater and video games are my top two uses but I listen to a lot of vinyl and the video game I play the most is Rock Band so music is pretty important also. For the record, I listen to strictly rock music. No rap or hip hop for this guy!

Current setup: I have a Sony STR-DG910 receiver and my towers are Infinity P253, my center is PC251, and my two rear speakers are P153.

Room size: It's your pretty standard rectangular living room. Approximately 12x20 with 8' ceilings.

Aesthetic: I'd prefer just normal black since it's the color of the rest of my gear. Size shouldn't be an issue really as long as it's your standard 10 or 12 inch sub.

I can't think of any other details. Mainly, I want it to sound amazing for music/rock band, I want to have the oomph to feel Optimus prime walking around in my living room when I'm watching blu rays and of course be able to impress my friends. I live out in the sticks so neighbors aren't too huge of an issue.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again guys!

If you bide your time, the Outlaw LFM-1EX will go on sale for $549 delivered. At that price it offers the most bang for the buck below $~700. It should easily pressurize your space in a way you have not experienced.

So, save up and keep coming back to this Forum so you don't miss the next sale on the Outlaw LFM-1EX.
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post #6 of 28
4/12/12 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Accept some compromises and go with the Rythmik FV12 or Epik Legend.

Or increase your budget and look at much larger subwoofers or multiples.

12x20x8 is a large room and a single 12" in the $500ish range just isn't going to get you the SPLs and impact for hometheater.

The SVS PC12 NSD is a great subwoofer that would do better than just about any new subwoofer in the $500 range.

Unfortunatly the PC12 NSD is out of his price range.
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post #7 of 28
4/12/12 at 1:48pm
Thread Starter 
Is the outlaw still worth it at 650?
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post #8 of 28
4/12/12 at 5:21pm
Cadence CSX12 or 15. You give up the below 25 hz range in exchange for really good output above that.

Check out Jim Wilson's review here on the 12. The 15 is under review at Auhioholics. They would have the output needed for your size room for what you want to do and the price you need to be at.

Sound and Vision had a great review of the 12.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...k-ii-subwoofer
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post #9 of 28
4/12/12 at 6:19pm
I have a 12+ yr old Paradigm PS1200 that is in a larger room than what you have and I get "satisifying" bass. The Rythmik FV12 will be just fine. Most folks that tell you your room is large want to rearrange or move any loose piece of furniture or knick knacks with your sub, imho...

Jeff
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post #10 of 28
4/12/12 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Cadence CSX12 or 15. You give up the below 25 hz range in exchange for really good output above that.

Check out Jim Wilson's review here on the 12. The 15 is under review at Auhioholics. They would have the output needed for your size room for what you want to do and the price you need to be at.

Sound and Vision had a great review of the 12.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...k-ii-subwoofer

+1. The Cadence CSX-15 is 499 shipped where as the other subs mentioned will put you over your budget when you add shipping.
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post #11 of 28
4/13/12 at 5:13am
I would say wait for the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus B-Stock. Should be able to get it for under $500 delivered.

As a dual Plus owner I will say you won't be disappointed. For a $500 sub it is very accurate, has plenty of power, and digs deep.
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post #12 of 28
4/13/12 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

+1. The Cadence CSX-15 is 499 shipped where as the other subs mentioned will put you over your budget when you add shipping.

+2 on the Cadence.

I found the CSX12 to have solid output and good detail, so I assume the CSX15 would be just more of the same. As mentioned, Audioholics does have one now for testing, so there should be something from them shortly.
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post #13 of 28
4/13/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crthiel View Post

Is the outlaw still worth it at 650?

The EX has response to ~16Hz which is rare. In the link below you can see how deep the EX can go in Maximum Extension mode. In the graph Max Extension is the purple line.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...iew_fullscreen

You can't get this kind of deep bass extension with less expensive subs including Cadence whether its the CSX12 or the CSX15.

I still recommend that you bide your time and get the EX when its on sale for $549 delivered.

However, if you decide you can't wait for the EX on sale you might be satisfied with something like the Cadence. In the Sound&Vision test the Cadence CSX12 is down 3db at 34Hz, while the Outlaw EX measured down 3db at 16Hz in the Audioholics test.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...oofer?page=0,3

That represents an entire octave...

If you are willing to make these kinds of sacrifices in performance you would do just about as well with the LAVA LSP12. The LAVA LSP12 can be had for $289 delivered by calling LAVA and mentioning you are a member of AVS Forum.

http://www.lavasubs.com/12_inch/powe...subwoofer.html

By calling and saying you are a member of the AVS Forum you should get 15% off the regular price of $338.46 which equals ~$289 delivered.

Here is a link to an entire thread about LAVA subs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=lava
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post #14 of 28
5/17/12 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies everyone. I had settled on the Outlaw EX and was waiting for a sale while saving more money to increase my budget but I missed the stupid secret sale. I would just buy it regular price but it just grinds my gears to pay that much while everyone else pays 100 less.

Since I missed it, with shipping, its roughly the same price as the SVS PC12-NSD (it has free shipping).

Which would you guys say is the better sub taking into account my desires outlined in the first post?
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post #15 of 28
5/17/12 at 2:28pm
The PC-12 NSD and PB-12NSD perform the same even though there may be one or two very slight differences.



That performance is stellar. Unless you really like the water heater look of the PC-12NSD, it is worth another $20 to get the PB-12NSD.

The 5 year warranty on the driver and the amp is one of the best in the business.
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post #16 of 28
5/17/12 at 3:49pm
how long did the infinity last? If you like the bass of infinity what about another infinity sub?
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post #17 of 28
5/17/12 at 5:19pm
I'd go for the Hsu VTF3 mk4 in this case. It'll go deeper than either while having at least as much output as the Outlaw and more than the PB12. It has more configuration options than the Outlaw and SVS as well. It's on sale right now, but it is still $9 over your budget. I would say make that $9 stretch, it is well worth it.
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post #18 of 28
5/17/12 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I'd go for the Hsu VTF3 mk4 in this case. It'll go deeper than either while having at least as much output as the Outlaw and more than the PB12. It has more configuration options than the Outlaw and SVS as well. It's on sale right now, but it is still $9 over your budget. I would say make that $9 stretch, it is well worth it.

I agree and you can look up Widescreens review of it.
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post #19 of 28
5/18/12 at 6:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

how long did the infinity last? If you like the bass of infinity what about another infinity sub?

I bought the infinity in December of 2007 so it didn't even last 5 years. It was a great sub for me then but I'm not going to buy another one since this one didn't last. A capacitor blew on the circuit board. I'm going to try and replace the capacitor but I've been getting the runaround from Mouser and my order has been delayed.

I can't take living without a sub anymore and I don't know if replacing the cap will fix it because the circuit board is nice and charred. Even though the traces all look intact, there's no way of knowing if they are until I replace the cap and fire up the sub. It's worth trying since its a 27 cent part.

It's time to upgrade anyway. At worst, I will have two subs if my infinity gets fixed or will be looking to unload the infinity.

I will search and see if I can find any HSU vs. PC12/PB12 threads and I'll check out reviews of the HSU in the meantime.


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post #20 of 28
5/18/12 at 7:16am
From the looks of that circuit board I fear you have more than a few damaged parts also the far right bottom corner has experienced a lot of heat.
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post #21 of 28
5/18/12 at 7:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

From the looks of that circuit board I fear you have more than a few damaged parts also the far right bottom corner has experienced a lot of heat.

Yeah, that's why I fear is pretty much dead.
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post #22 of 28
5/18/12 at 8:39am
Quote:
Even though the traces all look intact, there's no way of knowing if they are until I replace the cap and fire up the sub.

Don't you have a multimeter?
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post #23 of 28
5/18/12 at 8:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Don't you have a multimeter?

I do. They tested fine but those are some pretty serious burn marks and there is a hole about the size of a BB where the capacitor was.
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post #24 of 28
5/18/12 at 8:42am
How much would a replacement amp cost?
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post #25 of 28
5/18/12 at 10:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

How much would a replacement amp cost?

Probably like 150-200 judging by a quick google search.
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post #26 of 28
5/28/12 at 8:40am
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to let everyone know that I talked to a friend of mine who happened to be signed up for the Outlaw secret sale so I went ahead and had him buy the LFM-1 EX for me. It just got here Friday.

I've only had a chance to run it once but my goodness. I can't believe what I've been missing. I can hear so much more now and I briefly put in transformers and my whole living room would shake whenever a robot was just walking around! I'm currently running it with one port plugged and I tried some music too and I had to decrease the level just slightly or the bass was overpowering but thats hardly a big deal. It just sounds incredible. I didn't know what I was missing.

Thanks so much for all of the recommendations! I'll check in later this week when hopefully, I get a chance to play around with it.
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post #27 of 28
5/28/12 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crthiel View Post

Just wanted to let everyone know that I talked to a friend of mine who happened to be signed up for the Outlaw secret sale so I went ahead and had him buy the LFM-1 EX for me. It just got here Friday.

I've only had a chance to run it once but my goodness. I can't believe what I've been missing. I can hear so much more now and I briefly put in transformers and my whole living room would shake whenever a robot was just walking around! I'm currently running it with one port plugged and I tried some music too and I had to decrease the level just slightly or the bass was overpowering but thats hardly a big deal. It just sounds incredible. I didn't know what I was missing.

Thanks so much for all of the recommendations! I'll check in later this week when hopefully, I get a chance to play around with it.

Glad you got it and yes the ID subs are in most cases a vast improvement.
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post #28 of 28
5/28/12 at 9:53am
I say look into duals of whatever fits your budget. I always recommend this, as it going to give you a smoother response at the LP, provided you can use what ever location yeilds the best response.

Colocating subs may just give you +6db of unsatisfactory sound, due to its inability to give you a somewhat flat response across the LP.

This is another opportunity to say also..... Buy one sub and invest the the measuring tools that helped design your subwoofer and continue the science that went into building it. You will literally be going blind trying to get the most out of your new subwoofer. Its not difficult stuff to learn either, im somewhat computer literate, i did quite fine....
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