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Flat panel shootout. - Page 11

post #301 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post



Edit: to be fair, I am experiencing what might be called pulsing in some scenes. It is with broadcast tv only and haven't noticed with blu-ray. There was a scene in a wheat field and the pulsing was noticable as the wheat blew in the wind. Also, with a scene with NY buildings compressed so closely. It is rare but I have experienced it. It has not been seen often by me and never on blu-ray. Just wanted to share this as yes, you would think things should be perfect for this amount of money and yes I wish it wasn't there (although briefly) but it has occured. I love this set 99% of the time and my thoughts listed above hold true. When watching a blu-ray and my sound system is cranked it doesn't get better except for maybe a projector and dedicated room.

Rick

Supposedly an ISF calibration helps the pulsing.
post #302 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88; View Post

As for Kuro, forget Kuro, yes they WERE the best but you can't buy them anymore. You have to live in the present, in the real world.

Right, and in the real world they are still considered to be the best
post #303 of 366
D-Nice, all the panels were calibrated as close to gamma 2.4 as possible per the new standard correct? How close did all of them get? It seemed when watching on my computer that the VT50's gamma looked higher than the others. Of course it could have been the angle I was seeing the lcds. Thanks.
post #304 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

As for Kuro, forget Kuro, yes they WERE the best but you can't buy them anymore. You have to live in the present, in the real world.

Were the best? So I should just throw mine in the garbage and get a 2012 model just because you cannot buy any NIB from any reputable dealer? Yeah, ok.

You don't lose a title just because of the current purchasing status. No single 2012 flat panel can equal or beat a 2nd gen Kuro. Panasonic has the color... the Sharp Elites have the blacks and dynamic range. Neither has all three in one package.
post #305 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

D-Nice, all the panels were calibrated as close to gamma 2.4 as possible per the new standard correct?

Yes.

Quote:


How close did all of them get?

The charts should be on VE's website.
post #306 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Were the best? So I should just throw mine in the garbage and get a 2012 model just because you cannot buy any NIB from any reputable dealer? Yeah, ok.

You don't lose a title just because of the current purchasing status. No single 2012 flat panel can equal or beat a 2nd gen Kuro. Panasonic has the color... the Sharp Elites have the blacks and dynamic range. Neither has all three in one package.

What about high frequency detail? Isn't there a weakness with KURO?
post #307 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

What about high frequency detail? Isn't there a weakness with KURO?

No.
post #308 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstew419 View Post

Very valid points! I thought about what I typed afterwards and realized that when I walk into stores I usually have a decent amount of info in hand and direct the sales people to the two or three items I've narrowed it down to. So that also helps to prevent them from trying to steer me wrong, also I've had the luck of dealing with knowledgable staff, most of whom KNOW about avsforum.com.

That's an excellent point. When you do sales, you learn to let the customers sell themselves if they know what they want or are very knowledgeable. In such instances, you shouldn't interfere too much with their expectations, even if their assessment is wrong, just to make sure you can seal the deal ASAP. When I did some retail sales a long time ago, the sales team I worked with use to call such situations: a pizza. You didn't need to sweat too much to close the deal, just provide a little bit of psychological reinforcement and it was just as easy as being served the sale on a silver platter, or talking an order over the phone for a pizza!
post #309 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No.

Yes there is. SIZE
post #310 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post


Yes there is. SIZE

Pq wise ..
post #311 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Right, and in the real world they are still considered to be the best

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Were the best? So I should just throw mine in the garbage and get a 2012 model just because you cannot buy any NIB from any reputable dealer? Yeah, ok.

You don't lose a title just because of the current purchasing status. No single 2012 flat panel can equal or beat a 2nd gen Kuro. Panasonic has the color... the Sharp Elites have the blacks and dynamic range. Neither has all three in one package.

All right... I see I'm going to have to spell this one out completely. I thought that maybe I was clear enough but perhaps I wasn't. Then again maybe you guys just saw the door ever so slightly open and thought it would be funny to open it and say surprise! We got you! And if that's the case, you sure got me and it's funny!

When I said that the Kuros were the best, I meant in term of TVs that are being produced and that you can actually buy. I'm not talking about some obscure little retailer that may still have one or two units hidden away or a demo they're willing to sell. And you guys know there aren't too many if any at all on the used market. Indeed the Pioneer Kuros were and are still the best and it doesn't appear like the new Panny VT50's have equaled them yet as close as they may be. But the point is that you can't buy a Kuro anymore and those who didn't buy one back then, have to live in the present and buy whatever else is being produced that's as close as possible to a reference set if that's what they're targeting. Some say that the new OLEDs will take the throne away from Kuro but I'm not convinced just yet if they'll bee a better all-around TV, considering that they're a first generation product with quite possibly some new issues of their own. But that's another discussion.
post #312 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

You're fooling yourself. It may agree with your personal preferences but there's no denying that the actual results place the Elite in second place and the Samsung PN64E8000 plasma in third place. FWIW, I too would buy the Samsung over the Elite, cost being the major factor.

Except maybe he isn't fooling himself, since the experts' votes for the Elite was much lower than the audience's votes, especially with color accuracy and general content video quality (and at the same time, all scores were higher for the E8000).

Also, D-Nice posted his personal ranking here, which has the E8000 in second place, and the Elite in 4th place (below the hypothetical entry of the 929):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post22046259
post #313 of 366
I love this thread lol
post #314 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastMinuteGoal View Post

Except maybe he isn't fooling himself, since the experts' votes for the Elite was much lower than the audience's votes, especially with color accuracy and general content video quality (and at the same time, all scores were higher for the E8000).

Also, D-Nice posted his personal ranking here, which has the E8000 in second place, and the Elite in 4th place (below the hypothetical entry of the 929):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post22046259

Excellent post! The numbers don't lie!!
post #315 of 366
What I really would like to know is how the 65ST50 would have ranked compared to the top 3? (For the budget conscious).
post #316 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny5nz View Post

What I really would like to know is how the 65ST50 would have ranked compared to the top 3? (For the budget conscious).

By all reports, the ST50 stacks up very well against the more expensive Panny plasmas. We'll never know where exactly it would have come in since it wasn't in the competition. D-Nice may be able to give you some idea.
post #317 of 366
If price were weighted reasonably high, the ST50 would have won easily. Even ignoring price, the ST50 would've been decently close to the top group. You can conclude this simply by comparing reviews of it to the VT50 results.
post #318 of 366
I was back at BestBuy today and I of course had to go take a second look at the VT50. I will say that it sure looked good this second time. Much better than my earlier visit a few days ago.

It looked very rich and detailed. I was very impressed this second visit and thought I would share as I had stated the first viewing looked horrible.

Nice set...

Rick
post #319 of 366
Can't wait to see the shootout with the 'spiritual successor to the Kuro'
http://asia.cnet.com/product/lg-55em...d-45834945.htm

That looks like a badass TV... I'm sure samsungs will be just as impressive..
post #320 of 366
post #321 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The surprise was guest speaker Dr. Larry Weber - he co-invented Plasma technology, founded Plasmaco which was later bought by Panasonic, and generally helped bring Plasma TVs to market. For me he was the high point of the event. I got a kick out of his profitability discussion with the Samsung rep when he said to the rep (paraphrasing) "Do you know how profitable Samsung Plasmas are compared to their LEDs?" and the rep said "No i don't", and Larry said "No was going to tell you" then went on to school the rep about how their Plasma's profit margins help cut the LED's losses in half etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

I would be keen to watch it as well to know the context of Dr Webber's speech since LED LCD entered their FIRST year of loss in 2011, while plasma had their fair share. Sammy doesn't even talk about plasma nowadays. With depreciation over, plasma margins is likely to remain low single digits on a PnL and EBITDA basis for the rest of its life.

PS I'm a plasma user.

Thanks 8mile13. Where can I get this part?
post #322 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Yes.

The charts should be on VE's website.

I can't find them, maybe not up yet?
post #323 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor; View Post

Thanks 8mile13. Where can I get this part?

Stuff i posted is pretty much all there is except for samsung gesture & voice control demo <- why post stuff like that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ksll...feature=relmfu
post #324 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Were the best? So I should just throw mine in the garbage and get a 2012 model just because you cannot buy any NIB from any reputable dealer? Yeah, ok.

You don't lose a title just because of the current purchasing status. No single 2012 flat panel can equal or beat a 2nd gen Kuro. Panasonic has the color... the Sharp Elites have the blacks and dynamic range. Neither has all three in one package.

Yes, The Kuro is the greatest display of all time and ever will be. So invite the friends over, turn the lights up, pop in the 3-D Avatar blu-ray and soak in 70" of visual goodnes... oh, wait.
post #325 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post


Yes, The Kuro is the greatest display of all time and ever will be. So invite the friends over, turn the lights up, pop in the 3-D Avatar blu-ray and soak in 70" of visual goodnes... oh, wait.

Somehow people can never realize we are talking about pq!
post #326 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Yes.

The charts should be on VE's website.

huh, I only chart I see is for the Sharp Elite.

Also it's the not same as what was on the slides during the event which had color tracking. There's only one data point for color in the chart I found.

Does anyone have the presentation that was originally used?

thanks!
post #327 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

dr Larry Weber presentation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOFZg...feature=relmfu

Amazing you were able to get him involved. I love it!!!! I also noticed that the shootout last year was in SID monthly :Information Display Magazine. The scientific community is noticing. Great work.

Cheers
post #328 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The charts should be on VE's website.

I would love to see the charts on the VT50 as I can't get my CMS as close as I'd like not matter where I set the Color setting. I'm still getting some pretty big dE in red and green.
post #329 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Yeah, Sony was accidently smeared last year and did not make this year, so what? No problem why it did not make, and just a minor point the 65" Sony has been designated by experts as better then Elite . You may call all this BS but I tell you it is a great pleasure to be a cult buster.

I just don't understand why you keep mentioning the word "cult" in association with the Sharp Elite. The true "cult" was for the Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma, and for good reason since it was the best display, but not for any Sharp Elite. I guess we agree on something afterall.
post #330 of 366
I am not associated with any cult yet own multiple Kuros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post


I just don't understand why you keep mentioning the word "cult" in association with the Sharp Elite. The true "cult" was for the Pioneer Elite Kuro plasma, and for good reason since it was the best display, but not for any Sharp Elite. I guess we agree on something afterall.
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