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Sony Crystal LED = Quantum Dot? - Page 2

post #31 of 67
4/17/12 at 3:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

let's wait forever...

you don't agree, that's fine..

i'm buying CLED in 2013! trololol..
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post #32 of 67
4/17/12 at 4:02am
^^ So who is making CLED panel for Sony?
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post #33 of 67
4/17/12 at 5:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Hi Ergem

Interesting post. But FYI Nanoco is a GBP18m asset company with GBP2.8m sales. They certainly cannot drive QD.

Hi there.

I agree. Their technology however, they can have it licensed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

So the problem is... who will make QD for Sony?

Quote:


We also are making strides in the development and commercialization of next generation display technology including OLED where we also are considering alliances and the Sony's unique product crystal LED display.

I don't know for certain. lol. But when Sony said outsourcing and reselling OEM products is not the way to go... They might want to keep CLED production to themselves, especially when they're the only company that seems to be making strides to its commercialization.

by the way, i'm working on the presumption that they definitely can.. but that's just a guess on my part.. i don't blame you if you don't.. i can't be too technical with the discussion because this is not my object of study.. i just rely on online articles, and i know it will not make my claims conclusive, but in the first place i'm not trying..
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post #34 of 67
4/17/12 at 8:27am
In the opening post.....
Quote:


Sony Crystal Led = Quantum Dot Led? Very Likely!

Since it contains a question mark, it infers that it could be incorrect, but opinions were asked for as a topic of discussion. I don't understand why some members get their panties in a bunch when some opinions don't match theirs.

This is a discussion forum, not a court of law. Opinions are welcomed.
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post #35 of 67
4/17/12 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergem View Post

I agree. Their technology however, they can have it licensed.

Yes that's my point. They only license it. It is different from production. That is why they cannot be driving QD.

Rambus as a company do licensing as well but produces nothing. And Rambus as a memory alternative is no more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ergem View Post

They might want to keep CLED production to themselves, especially when they're the only company that seems to be making strides to its commercialization.

by the way, i'm working on the presumption that they definitely can.. but that's just a guess on my part.. i don't blame you if you don't..

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

So the problem is... who will make QD for Sony?

And maybe you can elaborate on Sony knowing how to make semiconductors... u mean in the lab? They certainly don't have much success commercially... not even their PS3 engine.

If you can't answer these questions then you will know why I am skeptical
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post #36 of 67
4/18/12 at 7:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Yes that's my point. They only license it. It is different from production. That is why they cannot be driving QD.

Definitely they can't produce for Sony. Sony can fend for themselves. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Rambus as a company do licensing as well but produces nothing. And Rambus as a memory alternative is no more.

No more? I understand the valid doubt regarding Rambus being a no player as a memory alternative. But please why simply rule them out when the company is still existing. In fact there was a previous rumor that AMD's GPU is using Rambus XDR2. And there is one rumor that PS4 will use AMDs graphics. XDR2 is still the fastest memory technology faster than DDR5, well at least on paper. The Rambus XDR2, there's still a possibility you can see one on PS4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

If you can't answer these questions then you will know why I am skeptical

I understand the skepticism on flat panel TVs specially on the release date. Because unlike in console rumors, release of the device is sure to happen although the exact date is unknown. And we've learned our lesson with SED, which was shown multiple times on CES and other events and yet never materialized.

But I have faith in Sony. And you can call that my personal bias.
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post #37 of 67
4/18/12 at 8:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

And maybe you can elaborate on Sony knowing how to make semiconductors... u mean in the lab? They certainly don't have much success commercially... not even their PS3 engine.

Alright that was a claim that I shouldn't have made. I am ignorant on how the crystal led is produced. lol ...all I know is that it is semiconductor based.

But to answer your question, if it is at all related, Sony is one of, if not the biggest player in CMOS sensors in the market, and that is semiconductor.

PS3 engine? You mean the cell processor? The PS3 is a money-making machine for Sony for a few years now. I don't understand why your calling unsuccessful commercially. The PS3 was loss-making initially, but that's part of the console business, they sell it at a loss in first couple of years until they are to produce it cheaply. But it was the blu-ray that contributed a lot to PS3 's manufacture price not the cell. The cell is a proof that Sony can produce semiconductors.

But I have no idea if it is at all related to how the crystal led is produced. lol. I would say not at all, it's completely different. The talk about the sensors and the cell is digressing from the topic, but I know I started it.
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post #38 of 67
4/18/12 at 9:42am
^^ We had a similar discussion in the Crystal LED thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21480046
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post #39 of 67
4/18/12 at 9:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

We have a similar discussion in the Crystal LED thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21508522

yeah but the original thesis of the thread is whether or not the cled is a quantum dot display.. but it spun of to whether or not Sony can commercialize it..

but merge it to the proper thread if necessary..
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post #40 of 67
4/18/12 at 9:53am
This is a good summary, whether or not it is LED or QD:
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

http://displaydaily.com/2012/01/12/s...not-a-product/

Sony representatives new very little about the screens they were showing, beyond what we’ve just said. They had no knowledge of how the screens are fabricated or what the cost issues might be. They were, however, emphatic in saying that CrystalLED is a technology demonstration and that there are no plans for it to be a product.

Now we know why. An extremely reliable source in the Asian display industry has informed Display Daily that the CrystalLED screen is composed of roughly 6.2 million LED chips (one for each sub-pixel) wire bonded to the appropriate pads. The result is a beautiful display, but it’s hard to imagine Sony building it in volume at anything approaching an acceptable cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

The biggest giveaway to me is the lack of chatter in the supply chain.
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post #41 of 67
4/18/12 at 11:09am
I don't think Sony is the answer here.

"LG Display Co Ltd exhibited an LCD panel whose color gamut was expanded by using quantum dots at SID 2010, the largest international conference on display technologies." ~ "LG Display did not reveal the materials for the quantum-dot LED or when it will start commercial production of the LCD panel."http://blog.51xuewen.com/msezhangjie/article_37700.htm

"Nanosys first commercialized the quantum dot technology with QuantumRail, a component that improved the quality of small-size LCDs. That technology has been licensed to LG Innotek."

This was just for improving LED backlight quality.

and.....

"Nanosys investors include Samsung Ventures, Venrock Associates, Arch Venture Partners, Polaris, El Dorado Ventures, Prospect Venture Partners, Harris and Harris, and Lux Capital. The company raised $133 million in an era when nanotechnology got overhyped. But a decade later, some of the promise of nanotech is near fruition."
http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/17/na...more-colorful/

In these news from Nanosys from 2011 several places they say they expect commercial displays (prototypes I guess) will come in the end of 2012.
But will that be Quantum dot displays or just QLED backlight?

"Samsung and Nanosys formed a strategic partnership around the new technology last year. Rivals include QD Vision. In terms of rival technologies, alternatives include organic light-emitting diode (OLED) display technology."

QD vision is working on printable Quantumdot solutions.

Would Nanosys start collaboration with Sony when they have already a deal with LG, and Samsung is one of their investors?
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post #42 of 67
4/18/12 at 3:18pm
Isn't Quantum Dot technology supposed to have significantly higher brightness, and a much wider gamut than the Crystal LED set showed?
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post #43 of 67
4/18/12 at 9:33pm
I'm posting this in this thread ratherthan in the other suggested thread, which has not been active of late.

At any rate, it doesn't appear Sony is thinking of quitting the consumer HDTV market, based on this recent article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ref=technology
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post #44 of 67
4/18/12 at 9:59pm
^^^ They are not, but it's not going to be their core business neither, based on their new CEO's strategy.

This article should be in the OLED thread, which we have already mentioned the AUO tie up some time back, not in this CLED thread
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post #45 of 67
4/19/12 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

^^^ They are not, but it's not going to be their core business neither, based on their new CEO's strategy.

This article should be in the OLED thread, which we have already mentioned the AUO tie up some time back, not in this CLED thread

I put it in this thread because of the talk of Sony "abandoning" consumer TV as well as the paragraph which mentions CLED.
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post #46 of 67
4/19/12 at 2:54pm
To answer the thread's main question, Crystal LED is NOT Quantum Dot display. Yes, a layer of quantum dots can be coated on LEDs to enhance their performance, and this is being done with classic LED backlights on LCDs, but a true QD display wouldn't require LEDs at all.
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post #47 of 67
8/23/12 at 1:01pm
So the possible release is indeed 2013 ?
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post #48 of 67
8/23/12 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post

So the possible release is indeed 2013 ?

No.
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post #49 of 67
1/16/13 at 1:33pm
ergam, congrats on calling this one.

All of the nay-sayers on this thread should apologize to you now. Quantum Dots will indeed get their commercial debut in 2013. They are not technically QDTV but QD LCD TV.

Yes, I know I am bumping an old thread but egram deserves the props.
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post #50 of 67
1/16/13 at 3:23pm
So, he's certainly "correct" that quantum-dot films now will be used in Sony LED LCD TVs.

He remains 100% wrong that this has anything at all do with Crystal LED, sorry.
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post #51 of 67
1/16/13 at 4:26pm
Sony is just replacing the LEDs used to light up the screen with Quantum dot enhanced LEDs.

"Conventional LCDs use a high-intensity blue LED backlight whose glow is converted by a phosphor coating to create a broadband, white light used to make the moving TV images. The new Triluminos tele­visions instead pair an uncoated blue LED with a thin glass tube filled with quantum dots. Two kinds of quantum dots in the tube absorb some of the blue light from the backlight and re-emit it as pure red andgreen light. The resulting white light is more intense at the wavelengths of these three specific colours than the white light made by a phosphor-coated LED, so that more colour comes through in the images."
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post #52 of 67
1/16/13 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Sony is just replacing the LEDs used to light up the screen with Quantum dot enhanced LEDs.

"Conventional LCDs use a high-intensity blue LED backlight whose glow is converted by a phosphor coating to create a broadband, white light used to make the moving TV images. The new Triluminos tele­visions instead pair an uncoated blue LED with a thin glass tube filled with quantum dots. Two kinds of quantum dots in the tube absorb some of the blue light from the backlight and re-emit it as pure red andgreen light. The resulting white light is more intense at the wavelengths of these three specific colours than the white light made by a phosphor-coated LED, so that more colour comes through in the images."

Correct, which is why the original thesis in this thread is still entirely wrong.

That said, the idea that quantum dots would come to production TVs is true, even if they are coming in a marginal way and with -- from what I have seen -- fairly marginal benefit.
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post #53 of 67
1/17/13 at 6:16am
I posted this a couple of days ago in the CES 2013 thread with a link to the Engadget article that brought the MIT article to light.
The Engadget article doesn't tell much else than that the "Quantum dot" will come to the Sony "Triluminos" line of TVs with the RGB LED lighting technology that was originally discontinued in 2009 and is now resurrected.

From people reporting from CES that saw this (one "normal" Triluminos besides one with Quantum dot) said the difference was very noticeable better for the Quantum dot version.
Of course then one can ask how much Sony had degraded the "normal" one to display the difference.
The comment section of the article gives some impressions from CES.
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post #54 of 67
1/17/13 at 10:38am
Yes, from the few reports that I've seen online, only one claims "marginally better" PQ. All the other people who've seen it seemed impressed.
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post #55 of 67
1/17/13 at 11:18am
With wide gamut BT.2020 content (i.e. 4K sources, or the "mastered for 4K" Blu-rays Sony announced) there will be a huge different between the X9000A's Truluminos tech, and a regular white LED LCD.
With standard gamut BT.709 content (i.e. all current HD content) there should be little if any improvement over white LED LCDs, as the better ones can already cover the BT.709 gamut.
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post #56 of 67
1/17/13 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

I posted this a couple of days ago in the CES 2013 thread with a link to the Engadget article that brought the MIT article to light.
The Engadget article doesn't tell much else than that the "Quantum dot" will come to the Sony "Triluminos" line of TVs with the RGB LED lighting technology that was originally discontinued in 2009 and is now resurrected.

From people reporting from CES that saw this (one "normal" Triluminos besides one with Quantum dot) said the difference was very noticeable better for the Quantum dot version.
Of course then one can ask how much Sony had degraded the "normal" one to display the difference.
The comment section of the article gives some impressions from CES.

Floor demos at CES are often carefully orchestrated to impress people. The Sony one wasn't that amazing even giventhat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

Yes, from the few reports that I've seen online, only one claims "marginally better" PQ. All the other people who've seen it seemed impressed.

I don't really even buy that. Impressed by what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

With wide gamut BT.2020 content (i.e. 4K sources, or the "mastered for 4K" Blu-rays Sony announced) there will be a huge different between the X9000A's Truluminos tech, and a regular white LED LCD.
With standard gamut BT.709 content (i.e. all current HD content) there should be little if any improvement over white LED LCDs, as the better ones can already cover the BT.709 gamut.

Right. So some tiny number of expanded-gamut BluRays will have better color. As for 4K sources, let's not spend a lot of time holding our breath on those, shall we? We wouldn't want to pass out from hypoxia.

And we wouldn't want to invest much in 4K sources for those 2K TVs, either, just for somewhat better color.

This is mostly about marketing. It's an improvement, but in a small way.
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post #57 of 67
1/17/13 at 12:48pm
Let's chant togetha: "Sony Sony Sony!"
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post #58 of 67
1/17/13 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

This is mostly about marketing. It's an improvement, but in a small way.
It's a big improvement if you plan on keeping the set for more than a couple of years and using it with 4K native content (or "mastered for 4K") as none of the other 4K displays on the market can cover the BT.2020 gamut.

But I agree, today, it's mostly marketing.
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post #59 of 67
1/17/13 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

It's a big improvement if you plan on keeping the set for more than a couple of years and using it with 4K native content (or "mastered for 4K") as none of the other 4K displays on the market can cover the BT.2020 gamut.

But I agree, today, it's mostly marketing.

If I'm planning on getting a set for 5+ years and spending serious coin, I'm going to get the true 4K set, not merely one with expanded color.
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post #60 of 67
1/17/13 at 2:23pm
rogo,

The QD backlit unit from Sony is a true 4k/UHD set. Has passive 3d and built-in 4k upscaler.
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