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LG PA70G LED 1280x800 700 Lumens. - Page 36

post #1051 of 2305
Well I found a different DVI to VGA adapter and can confirm it does appear to pixel map 1:1 at 1280x800 (in FULL ratio) and 3D does indeed activate at 1024x768 @ 120hz. The curious thing is that even with what appears to be a 1:1 image at 1280x800 there is still a lit border around the edge of the projected image.confused.gif

The posted monitor.inf file does not seem to work for anything other than 1024x768, which already works as-is (at least for my gear).

If anyone else is able to verify 1280x720p @ 120hz please post and share the info on your set-up (thank you).

Jason
post #1052 of 2305
Can anyone who has ceiling mounted this projector share how to deal with the power brick? The cord is not long enough to keep the power brick on the floor when projector is mounted on the ceiling. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
post #1053 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghump View Post

Can anyone who has ceiling mounted this projector share how to deal with the power brick? The cord is not long enough to keep the power brick on the floor when projector is mounted on the ceiling. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

It's a challenge with the short cord. All I can tell is what I did so far;. This afternoon I fished the power, HDMI, and USB in the wall, and the power brick is just hanging.
Tomorrow I'll put the brush plates on, but the I guess the brick will just have to hang there, unless someone points me to a link for an extension.



post #1054 of 2305
More testing...

TriDef + AMD does not recognize the PA70G as a 3D capable display via either direct HDMI or VGA so do not waste money on the TriDef pack (as I just did for testing).

The only 'HD' resolution that activates 3D on my unit is 1024x768@120hz, the posted monitor.inf file still shows as 1024x768@120hz when sending 1280x720 or 1280x768 @ 120hz (and do not try to use it with HDMI or you will likely get no image upon reboot, as stated it was designed for VGA use).

It does appear to pixel map 1:1 via either HDMI or VGA @ 1280x800. * Or maybe not... keep reading below and see the link posted by Rugrash.

Using the Input Label rename seems to change more than just the name, changing HDMI to GAME seems to yield less input/gaming lag (only tested with mouse pointer so far and have not verified actual response with crt).

VGA works really well on this unit but appears to offer fewer calibration options (which is somewhat common).

Proper brightness setting appears to be 53 as that is the point the DMD Dither vanishes (tested this with a screen sample about 1' from the lens).

I hope this information helps others, more to come...
Jason

____________
Edited by DaGamePimp - 12/20/12 at 2:10am
post #1055 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghump View Post

Can anyone who has ceiling mounted this projector share how to deal with the power brick? The cord is not long enough to keep the power brick on the floor when projector is mounted on the ceiling. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

My power brick is above ceiling in the roof, together with an extension cord. Would be a problem though if you're mounting to concrete, basement or 1st floor or cant physically get into the roof.
post #1056 of 2305
The following will help you understand the border around the image.

Posted by anomaly123

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1304737/lg-hw300t-led-1280x800/120#post_20883585 post #131

The black border is related to the DLP array and interaction with the light source illumination optics. The border is caused by pixels around the active image that is limited to show black, this border is called the Pond of mirrors (POM). This border may or may not be visable depending on the light source.

This message board reply is not under NDA, but proves that the POM exists

Anomally has a Europen website that reviews projectors, I think he also works in development.

http://e2e.ti.com/support/dlp__mems_micro-electro-mechanical_systems/f/94/t/30507.aspx
post #1057 of 2305
The projector is HDMI 1.3 and will only display a Frame Sequential 3D format. HDMI 1.4 has format flags/infoframes/EDIDs for auto detection.

You'll need to manually choose the Display type in Tri-Def, and yes it works fine at 1280x720x120Hz connected directly to my PLED-W500 via 4VGA or HDMI.

Although currently for ease of use with the PS3 and XBox, I have it connected via the VP3D1.

Although I do not have the PA70G, I can comfirm that Tri-Def is not a waste of money.

FYI AMDs HD3D will only work starting with 5000 series graphic cards on. <
This means HDMI 1.4 support (older cards are capaple of 3D output)
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/3d-desktop-graphics.aspx

EDIT:
BTW Tri-Def is 50% off with an AMD card
Edited by Rugrash - 12/20/12 at 12:52am
post #1058 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

....So before you consider insulting members of this board you should learn a bit about their post history...
You are right dear Jason ! You should read more Hemingway, before you try to catch a fish like tataniko. But don't forget, too much feeding for other fishes here or keep and attach polite style instead of truth will not help for you. Just read. That was only tataniko's state, it's nothing more.

Don't make war, insult, nationality, color, or any other stupid things here in your mind. You should be careful your mind's state.

E.T loves you Jason, life is good.
post #1059 of 2305
Also it been somewhat comfirrmed that: But I have no idea if it is a true fact.

But supposedly

0.45" DLP - 1140 x 912 WXGA native resolution

This press release was refered to by someone under NDA as being the true resolution of the DMD 0.45 chip from Texas Instruments.
http://www.necdisplay.com/documents/PressReleases/L50W_PressRelease.pdf

This is the only information I've ever found discussing the true resolution.

Keep in mind, these are "mirrors", not individual crystals like in a LCD panel that map 1:1

Also, there is no actuators in these projectors, like the first gen DLP TVs, so wobulation is not a factor.
post #1060 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugrash View Post

The following will help you understand the border around the image.
Posted by anomaly123
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1304737/lg-hw300t-led-1280x800/120#post_20883585 post #131
The black border is related to the DLP array and interaction with the light source illumination optics. The border is caused by pixels around the active image that is limited to show black, this border is called the Pond of mirrors (POM). This border may or may not be visable depending on the light source.
This message board reply is not under NDA, but proves that the POM exists
Anomally has a Europen website that reviews projectors, I think he also works in development.
http://e2e.ti.com/support/dlp__mems_micro-electro-mechanical_systems/f/94/t/30507.aspx

Interesting, I have owned many DLP's over the years and have seen it once before but it was correctable.

Thanks for the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugrash View Post

The projector is HDMI 1.3 and will only display a Frame Sequential 3D format. HDMI 1.4 has format flags/infoframes/EDIDs for auto detection.
You'll need to manually choose the Display type in Tri-Def, and yes it works fine at 1280x720x120Hz connected directly to my PLED-W500 via 4VGA or HDMI.
Although currently for ease of use with the PS3 and XBox, I have it connected via the VP3D1.
Although I do not have the PA70G, I can comfirm that Tri-Def is not a waste of money.
FYI AMDs HD3D will only work starting with 5000 series graphic cards on. <
This means HDMI 1.4 support (older cards are capaple of 3D output)
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/3d-desktop-graphics.aspx
EDIT:
BTW Tri-Def is 50% off with an AMD card

While I truly appreciate your input, some great info there, we are talking about different projectors and as such there may indeed be varied end results.

I did get TriDef for half price and it's a steal for $25... if it can be used. wink.gif

I tried to manually choose the display but no luck, wish it were that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugrash View Post

Also it been somewhat comfirrmed that: But I have no idea if it is a true fact.
But supposedly
0.45" DLP - 1140 x 912 WXGA native resolution
This press release was refered to by someone under NDA as being the true resolution of the DMD 0.45 chip from Texas Instruments.
http://www.necdisplay.com/documents/PressReleases/L50W_PressRelease.pdf
This is the only information I've ever found discussing the true resolution.
Keep in mind, these are "mirrors", not individual crystals like in a LCD panel that map 1:1
Also, there is no actuators in these projectors, like the first gen DLP TVs, so wobulation is not a factor.


Very interesting again, if true..?

I understand perfectly that these are micro-mirrors (DMD panels), however they can still be mapped 1:1, at least most DLP's can as I have been doing so for years.


Jason
post #1061 of 2305
Took me awhile but I found the post explaining how the pixel mapping is achieved once the input is received and then converted to the diamond pixel mapping.

Read post #299
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1343793/the-three-1280x800-led-clones/270#post_20952930

Edit: You can use CRU utility to add a 1280x720 resolution to your registrys EDID. I posted it in the thread previously.
I'm not sure, but if I remember correctly it breaks HDCP. But it may have been the pixel overclocker mod that did that.
No biggie, just uninstall the modded inf, then put your old one back. HDCP is good to go again. So use it for test purposes.
Edited by Rugrash - 12/20/12 at 1:33am
post #1062 of 2305
Ah, very helpful link there Rugrash (thank you), that explains a lot of what I am seeing then.

The image is much more refined and cleaner at 1280x800 than any other resolution but it does still look a bit off when compared with other digital displays. I initially figured this was due to the questionable lens quality and internal processing.

Thank you for all the valuable information, truly appreciated.

Jason
______
Edited by DaGamePimp - 12/20/12 at 4:52am
post #1063 of 2305
Thank you for the picture and information. Unfortunately the room is above the garage and the ceiling has no room above it as the roof is over there. So fishing the wires or hiding the power brick above the ceiling are ruled out. I might just have to find an elegant solution to keep the power brick visible below the ceiling itself. Anyone done something like this and provide some ideas?
post #1064 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

More testing...
TriDef + AMD does not recognize the PA70G as a 3D capable display via either direct HDMI or VGA so do not waste money on the TriDef pack (as I just did for testing).
The only 'HD' resolution that activates 3D on my unit is 1024x768@120hz, the posted monitor.inf file still shows as 1024x768@120hz when sending 1280x720 or 1280x768 @ 120hz (and do not try to use it with HDMI or you will likely get no image upon reboot, as stated it was designed for VGA use).
It does appear to pixel map 1:1 via either HDMI or VGA @ 1280x800. * Or maybe not... keep reading below and see the link posted by Rugrash.
Using the Input Label rename seems to change more than just the name, changing HDMI to GAME seems to yield less input/gaming lag (only tested with mouse pointer so far and have not verified actual response with crt).
VGA works really well on this unit but appears to offer fewer calibration options (which is somewhat common).
Proper brightness setting appears to be 53 as that is the point the DMD Dither vanishes (tested this with a screen sample about 1' from the lens).
I hope this information helps others, more to come...
Jason
____________

Yep i have the same Problem with Tridef and my ATI Card.
I think its the Catalyst who dosnt recognize the PA70G correct as a projector.
It shows off as an LCD Display what cant be right...

In ATI Catalyst the PA70G is labeled with : "LG PJTR" which is not the correct identifier for that projector.
That is the biggest Problem:

ATI HD 3D dosnt work with that Projector because he dosnt recognize it correct!
that means:
- no AMD stereo driver options in Stereoscopic Player (only Pageflipping which is kind of buggy)
- no AMD HD 3D Game support for Tridef and iz3D

I have tried running severel games with the iz3D 3D Driver... and it WORKED.
But i still had a lot of errors, crashes and wrong/flickering stereoscopic images

i will contact the ATI support today and see what can be done about it, if there is no way to deal with it i will send the projector back to the hell he came from >smile.gif
post #1065 of 2305
One more question mounting this projector on the ceiling please. Does the distance from the screen very much fixed to get the right image size on a 100" screen? I was testing the projector on a table top until i get the mount from Amazon and found it difficult to get the image size correct on the 100" screen. I had selected Just Scan option which seem to work better than others. Are there any other setting (besides keystone) that will help in this regard?
post #1066 of 2305
Now that more people own the LG PA70G, hopefully we can all pool our collective experience to give simple instructions to get 3D working. As 4 or 5 of us or more figure it out, share your equipment, programs, settings, 3D glasses, and any other important info.

Also, maybe some that are frustrated can call ATV or Nividia and ask them if they have drivers that work, or could they add LG PA70G support. This device is NEW so it might take time for companies to make the drivers or settings for it. But if they become aware of the situation, it could speed up the process.

tataniko, DeinVater, DaGamePimp,and Rugrash are just some of the guys that are helping with getting 3D to work for the rest of us. Thanks Guys and keep digging until we get it working for the different cards that are out their.
post #1067 of 2305
The solution for those like me who do not possess HDMI1.4a output bit expensive but probably cheaper than buying a new PC or laptop.

http://3dvision-blog.com/tag/optoma-3d-xl/
post #1068 of 2305

Edited by cgott42 - 12/20/12 at 9:02pm
post #1069 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeinVater View Post

tataniko you are awesome! could you please help me where i have to place the monitor.inf file? i have just no idea... i have an ATI /AMD too.best regards

Hi DeinVater, just easy.

When you connected the projector to the PC through VGA, there will be a secondary screen for LG, what Windows is recognized well. Windows automatically generated a default monitor driver for this screen (projector), according LG factory stored resolutions (EDID).

You have to replace or install custom monitor driver instead of default one, what is containing all available 120hz resolutions for LG PA 70G.

After installing custom monitor.inf and restarting Windows, go to screen resolutions\advanced settings\list all modes.There will be all the 120hz resolutions, you can switch easily. This method is working all 120hz capable GPU (Ati/Nvidia/Intel/S3 etc.).

Edit: This monitor driver is suitable only for VGA out connector from a PC, it is not working on HDMI or DVI.

LgPa70gVga120.zip 1k .zip file
Edited by tataniko - 12/20/12 at 9:46am
post #1070 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by tataniko View Post

Hi DeinVater, just easy.
When you connected the projector to the PC through VGA, there will be a secondary screen for LG, what Windows is recognized well. Windows automatically generated a default monitor driver for this screen (projector), according LG factory stored resolutions (EDID).
You have to replace or install custom monitor driver instead of default one, what is containing all available 120hz resolutions for LG PA 70G.
After installing custom monitor.inf and restarting Windows, go to screen resolutions\advanced settings\list all modes.There will be all the 120hz resolutions, you can switch easily. This method is working all 120hz capable GPU (Ati/Nvidia/Intel/S3 etc.).
Edit: This monitor driver is suitable only for VGA, not HDMI or DVI.
LgPa70gVga120.zip 1k .zip file

Good stuff.
Now to clarify, how to we install the custom monitor.inf? Do we right click on file and install it, or place it in some folder. When I right click my mouse, I am given option to "install this driver software". I just want to confirm to do it that way. Or place it somewhere else. Make sense?

Is there any way to get hdmi to work, or create .inf file for hdmi?
post #1071 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Good stuff. Now to clarify, how to we install the custom monitor.inf? Do we right click on file and install it, or place it in some folder. When I right click my mouse, I am given option to "install this driver software". I just want to confirm to do it that way. Or place it somewhere else. Make sense?
Is there any way to get hdmi to work, or create .inf file for hdmi?
You have to replace in Device Manager the existing LG projector driver for the new one.

Sorry, I created these HDMI and VGA monitor drivers nearly 2 months ago, and I did not keep the HDMI one, it was no reason, because HDMI 3D limited only 1024x768. Only VGA works 720p 3D.
post #1072 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by tataniko View Post

You have to replace in Device Manager the existing LG projector driver for the new one.
Sorry, I created these HDMI and VGA monitor drivers nearly 2 months ago, and I did not keep the HDMI one, it was no reason, because HDMI 3D limited only 1024x768. Only VGA works 720p 3D.

Do you think you could maybe make a config file that contained both hdmi and vga. I have an ion htpc that only has hdmi on it, 1024x768 in 3D is good enough for me, if that is all that works. Thanks bro. Sounds like you figured it out, a long time ago, and we are just catching up. smile.gif
post #1073 of 2305
The EDID is different for each input. The VGA EDID shows the analog capabilities, whereas the HDMI EDID has descriptors for digital signals.

How to perform an EDID override http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hdfever.fr%2F2011%2F02%2F20%2Ftutoriel-faire-fonctionner-un-projecteur-3d-dlp-link-avec-le-kit-3d-vision%2F
This is the guide I used when I first did it, I also used the H5360 inf file from it to enable 3D Vision at the time.

Now that 3D Vision is supporting CRTs again in their latest driver, Nvidia users could try the ID pin removal as explained at http://3dvision-blog.com/4100-how-to-use-any-3d-dlp-projector-together-with-3d-vision/

Nvidia users should also note the ability to create custom resolution profiles in the Nvidia control panel. Select 1280x720, set to 120Hz, select automatic and then CVT reduced blank (oh and check the progressive box)
post #1074 of 2305
Rugrash

Were you able to achieve higher resolutions in hdmi 3D, or did you come up with the same data that tataniko got going the hdmi route?
post #1075 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Sounds like you figured it out, a long time ago, and we are just catching up. smile.gif
You are very sensitive rgtaa, thank you very much for you statement ! smile.gif.

I have lot of 3D mp4, mkv and avi, they are mostly 1080p side by side or over and under format. I have no problem with 3D at VGA 1280*768 resolution, only the brightness is a little weak for me at 100" screen, but finally I accepted.

Anyway, you don't need monitor.inf file for HDMI, that's why I deleted before, because without any hack, you can easily use built in 1024x768 3D resolution through HDMI.
post #1076 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Rugrash Were you able to achieve higher resolutions in hdmi 3D, or did you come up with the same data that tataniko got going the hdmi route?
Correct me if I am wrong, but Rugrash was that man, who firstly stated 3D HDMI limited only 1024x768 max resolution, and finally I checked and confirmed his statement.
post #1077 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by tataniko View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but Rugrash was that man, who firstly stated 3D HDMI limited only 1024x768 max resolution, and finally I checked and confirmed his statement.

NO! I never said that. The only thing I said was that one user posted that the DLP Link signal was disabled at 1280x720x120Hz and I wanted comfirmation of the fact.

Hah Hah ha ha ha, people should keep in mind that "YOU" TATANIKO" was the one saying that 1280x720@120Hz was blurry and unwatchable via VGA or HDMI on your Vivitek Qumi, Acer K330 and on your LG PA70G. That it could not be done, even though other posters were clearly stating they were doing so on the Qumi and K330.

So the fact that Tataniko has had and is having problems with 3D at 1280x720@120Hz via VGA and HDMI, I take with a grain of salt.

Everyone keep in mind, I have a PLED-W500. It is similar in the fact that it uses the same same 0.45 DMD chipset from Texas Instruments.

Out of all of the projectors using the 0.45 chipset, this would be the first that I've heard of that was incapable of doing Frame Sequential (Page Flipping) 3D at 1280x720@120Hz over HDMI. It is possible that it has to do with LGs software, but I'm doubtful.
post #1078 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by tataniko View Post

There are lot of misunderstanding and legend about 3D 720p.
All Texas DLP Pico HD chipset based projectors designed to work
- via HDMI 1024x768@120hz resolution.
There are no Texas DLP Pico HD chipset based projector on the market which is working EDID
- via HDMI 1280x720@120hz resolution.
These are facts.
However, if you use Powerstrip on windows, you can switch 720p@120hz with custom timing, but it will be blurry. Also, users reported, if you use third party 3D controllers such Viewsonic or Optoma, it is possible to reach 720p@120hz, but it is probably fake or a trick, because limitation of HDMI and chipset there are not enough bandwidth, real and good timing for this resolution.
And it is true, EDID of Qumi can accept
- via VGA 720p@120hz resolution, but it is blurry and a joke from Delta Electronics.
So, everybody calm down, all Texas DLP Pico HD chipset based projectors work great
- via HDMI 1024x768@120hz resolution, but not 720p@120hz.
Just check this post to get proper 720p@3D over VGA.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1405666/lg-pa70g-led-1280x800-700-lumens/690#post_22550050

This is tataniko's post on his LG PA70G.

His statement of "limitation of HDMI and chipset there are not enough bandwidth" is completely false.
The limitation is at 1920x1080P@120Hz, the current HDMI chipsets are not capapably of Frame Sequential/Page Flipping at this resolution.
post #1079 of 2305
Rugrash
So we have people in this LG PA70G forum room who might not own a 70G trying to help us with getting 3D to work on our units, and some of you guys with the same chipset on your PJ's say it should work, and advising us to try "this or that", to help us get our 3D working. Thanks for helping us, and I'm thinking we probably should be able to get same resolutions as the other 720p LED models with same chipset. It makes sense to me.

There are more owners of the LG PA70G than a few months ago, so we should have more beta testers to get 3D working with both VGA and HDMI, and maybe come up with calibrations that work to give Brightest Picture possible in 3D, maybe if we switch to 3D we have to have smaller screen size, say 70-80 inchs, and a special User setting so 3D can POP as much as possible. So if you got 3D working, and it POPS or POPS as much as you can get , trying everything, maybe post settings, we can try.
So this 3D setting would appear too Bright for 2D watching but be good for 3D. I will have my 3D glasses hopefully in 1 week. smile.gif

One other question, are all 3D glasses the same, would some make the picture appear brighter, and some make it appear not so bright, I don't know. Any one test different brand 3D glasses. If you tried 3 or 4 different brand 3D glasses, which worked the best. Another way of saying it.
Edited by rgtaa - 12/20/12 at 12:32pm
post #1080 of 2305
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghump View Post

Thank you for the picture and information. Unfortunately the room is above the garage and the ceiling has no room above it as the roof is over there. So fishing the wires or hiding the power brick above the ceiling are ruled out. I might just have to find an elegant solution to keep the power brick visible below the ceiling itself. Anyone done something like this and provide some ideas?

Maybe you might have to tie wrap the brick and cord to the support post, and use an extension cord.
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