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Sharp LC-60LE630U

post #1 of 37
4/16/12 at 3:52am
Thread Starter 
Hi All,

So here's the thing, a friend of mine works at a furniture store and got me a deal on a Sharp LC-60LE630U. I went into the store and checked it out. I thought it looked like a decent LED TV, the settings they used in the store made it look a bit washed out, but I figured I'd get home and calibrate it and it would look amazing.

So I get it home and start making adjustments, but the menu system is extremely lacking in options. I figure "no problem, I'll go into the service menu" however after much googling, I can find very little info on this particular model whatsoever and even if I figured out how to get into the service menu, there is nothing anywhere about what the optimal settings would be from there. I upgraded the firmware on the unit in hopes of gaining some more options in the user menu, but no dice there.

I would appreciate any help that anyone here can offer.

Thanks in advance!!
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post #2 of 37
4/16/12 at 5:25am
There is a SM, but it's complex and I would not recommend using it.

Change the picture mode to Movie; then all the calibration options will be in the advanced user menu.
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post #3 of 37
4/16/12 at 5:27am
Thread Starter 
Cool, will try this out when I get home. Thanks Chad!!

When you say all the calibration options will be available, do you mean the individual colors and everything? As of right now, all that is available is the OPC adjustment (mind you I'm in Standard mode).....
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post #4 of 37
4/16/12 at 5:35am
Yes, CMS and grayscale will all be opened up.
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post #5 of 37
4/16/12 at 5:37am
Thread Starter 
OK, perfect, that is all I need then!!

Once I get home this afternoon, I will try it out and let you know how I made out. Damn Sharp, I don't know why they have to make such a damned un-intuitive user menu system!! LOL

Thanks once again Chad!! You tha man!!!
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post #6 of 37
4/16/12 at 5:41am
I was under the impression that the 630/6300u series does not have a CMS (regardless of mode).

Jason
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post #7 of 37
4/16/12 at 6:01am
The manual doesn't exactly give a full description. lol

Advanced Picture Setting
This TV provides various advanced functions for
optimizing the picture quality.
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post #8 of 37
4/16/12 at 6:02am
Thread Starter 
Ya, the manual is pretty much useless
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post #9 of 37
4/16/12 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I was under the impression that the 630/6300u series does not have a CMS (regardless of mode).

Jason


You are correct sir, there are no more options on movie mode than any other mode.
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post #10 of 37
4/16/12 at 2:10pm
Oh, sorry about that. I've done a bunch of 632Us and thought they would be similar.
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post #11 of 37
4/16/12 at 2:33pm
Thread Starter 
No worries buds. I've actually noticed shadowing in the corners of this set so the store will be replacing it. I didn't get the model number they are giving me, but I know it's a bit of a step up as it's a smart tv.

They have a 70" Sharp in the store with a different menu system than this one and apparently this other 60" is it's smaller brother. I played with the options on the 70" and it seemed like it had a lot more available in the menu system.

Any ideas on what model number I could be receiving? It's also supposed to have built-in wifi but no 3d (though I think he might be wrong about that one....)

Edit--apparently it's the 2U that I'll be getting. Any tips on that model ChadB?
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post #12 of 37
4/21/12 at 4:46am
Thread Starter 
While I'm still waiting for my replacement TV, I'd thought I'd play around with the settings and try to get this calibrated as good as I could via the very limited user menu system on the LC-60LE63OU as I saw very little in way of both information and settings on the net with this particular model of television.

I had to use different settings for standard definition and high definition. So here we go:

Standard Definition Settings

AV Mode: Standard
OPC Off
Backlight +7
Contract +30
Brightness +7
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness +2

Advanced Settings

Color Temp Low
Motion Enhancement On(Low)
Film Mode Advanced(Low)
Active Contrast On
Digital Noise Reduction Off
Range of OPC N/A (it is turned off so this doesn't matter

HD Settings:

AV Mode Movie
OPC Off
Backlight +10
Contrast +30
Brightness 0
Color -7
Tint -5
Sharpness 0

Advanced Settings

Color Temp Low
Motion Enhancement On(Low)
Film Mode Off
Active Contrast Off
Digital Noise Reduction Off
Range of OPC n/a (again turned off so this does not matter)

I also have Game Mode settings for my xbox but I haven't really played around too much with this. Here they are regardless:

OPC Off
Backlight +7
Contrast +27
Brightness 1
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness +1

Advanced Settings:

Color Temp Mid-High
Motion Enhancement and Film Mode are not an option in Game Mode
Active Contrast On
Digital Noise Reduction Off
Range of OPC n/a (OPC is turned off so this is not a factor)

I'm not a professional calibrator by any means and all of these settings are done strictly by eye. You will notice that the green and red really pop for the Standard settings and are even a little over-powering but with no options to adjust colors, this was the best I could do. I suppose I could have tweaked it a little more to make it look like any other TV but one of the beautiful things about this set is the brightness and vivid colors and I really wanted to showcase those features. Also when I got it to the point where the red and green were toned down, everything had kind of a bluish hue, and the color seemed kind of faded and blah. Hopefully this gives some a good base to go one if they have this set.
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post #13 of 37
4/21/12 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post

While I'm still waiting for my replacement TV, I'd thought I'd play around with the settings and try to get this calibrated as good as I could via the very limited user menu system on the LC-60LE63OU as I saw very little in way of both information and settings on the net with this particular model of television........

I'm not a professional calibrator by any means and all of these settings are done strictly by eye. You will notice that the green and red really pop for the Standard settings and are even a little over-powering but with no options to adjust colors, this was the best I could do. I suppose I could have tweaked it a little more to make it look like any other TV but one of the beautiful things about this set is the brightness and vivid colors and I really wanted to showcase those features. Also when I got it to the point where the red and green were toned down, everything had kind of a bluish hue, and the color seemed kind of faded and blah. Hopefully this gives some a good base to go one if they have this set.

'Sharing display menu settings?'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055906

'Display Calibration: Root Fundamentals'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933
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post #14 of 37
4/21/12 at 12:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

'Sharing display menu settings?'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055906

'Display Calibration: Root Fundamentals'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933

OK, so what's your point? If this thread is in the wrong section, could a mod please move it?

As far as the second link, while it is an interesting read I fail to see what your "manifesto" has anything to do with my thread whatsoever. If you have a point to make, it is better to communicate that point directly rather than pull a kind of move like you just did.

Let me again say that these are not copied settings, this is after a solid week of making tweeks here or there to get the best picture. Not everyone has the luxury of having a professional calibrator in or close to their location. Trust me I would have gladly paid someone to come in and spend a couple of hours vs a week of my time. You really need to get off of that high horse you are riding on. While I may not be a professional, I would like someone to come here and see if they can get the picture any better than I have it now using the user menu system. I can pretty much guarentee you that even a professional could not match what I have done. That's how confident I am in these settings. Like I said, they won't be perfect for everyone, but it may give them a good starting point to go from. I would also wholeheartedly disagree with this statement made by you:

Quote:


In any case, the display owner must keep in mind that the goal of calibration is not to achieve any individual's preconceived notion of what a "good" image should look like. The originator of a given video program is the one responsible for determining how the image is supposed to appear. The goal of calibration is to make the display behave as much like a professional monitor as possible.


This statement alone would guarantee that you would never receive a dime from me. I can just picture it--you come in and calibrate my set, I tell you I'm not happy with it and you tell me well that's the way it's supposed to look--too bad. You need to keep in mind that IT MOST DEFINITELY is up to the owners of their TV's what they deem to be good or not--it's their TV, not yours, not some hollywood director. Everyone wants their set to look amazing, but that is at their discretion as everyone has different perceptions of perfection. Your instruments could tell you a set is calibrated perfectly but if the person that you are working for does not like it, then your instruments have failed that person. In fact, if this is truly the attitude of all so-called professional calibrators, I'd rather spend a week of my time vs. paying someone who doesn't care about how I feel about the picture I'm looking at.

TO THE MODS--While my last post was worded a bit strongly, I don't think I deserved an infraction for it. I've cleaned it up and re-posted it. If you have an issue with it, please send me a PM and I'll adjust accordingly.
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post #15 of 37
4/21/12 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post

OK, so what's your point? If this thread is in the wrong section, could a mod please move it?

As far as the second link, while it is an interesting read I fail to see what your "manifesto" has anything to do with my thread whatsoever. If you have a point to make, it is better to communicate that point directly rather than pull a kind of move like you just did.

Let me again say that these are not copied settings, this is after a solid week of making tweeks here or there to get the best picture. Not everyone has the luxury of having a professional calibrator in or close to their location. Trust me I would have gladly paid someone to come in and spend a couple of hours vs a week of my time. You really need to get off of that high horse you are riding on. While I may not be a professional, I would like someone to come here and see if they can get the picture any better than I have it now using the user menu system. I can pretty much guarentee you that even a professional could not match what I have done. That's how confident I am in these settings. Like I said, they won't be perfect for everyone, but it may give them a good starting point to go from. I would also wholeheartedly disagree with this statement made by you:




This statement alone would guarantee that you would never receive a dime from me. I can just picture it--you come in and calibrate my set, I tell you I'm not happy with it and you tell me well that's the way it's supposed to look--too bad. You need to keep in mind that IT MOST DEFINITELY is up to the owners of their TV's what they deem to be good or not--it's their TV, not yours, not some hollywood director. Everyone wants their set to look amazing, but that is at their discretion as everyone has different perceptions of perfection. Your instruments could tell you a set is calibrated perfectly but if the person that you are working for does not like it, then your instruments have failed that person. In fact, if this is truly the attitude of all so-called professional calibrators, I'd rather spend a week of my time vs. paying someone who doesn't care about how I feel about the picture I'm looking at.

TO THE MODS--While my last post was worded a bit strongly, I don't think I deserved an infraction for it. I've cleaned it up and re-posted it. If you have an issue with it, please send me a PM and I'll adjust accordingly.

No need to get upset, George was making two basic points. The first was that copying settings is not calibration nor it is helpful in terms of getting the best picture out of the display. You didn't copy settings but you did post them so that others may copy them ("Hopefully this gives some a good base to go one if they have this set."), which is okay in the LCD forum but not in the calibration forum since copying settings is not calibration.

The second point was about what calibration is really about and based on your posts, it seems you would not prefer a properly calibrated display over your own settings which are created to give you a subjectively pleasing picture quality.

Calibration is about image fidelity, not what one individual considers to be subjectively pleasing.
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post #16 of 37
4/22/12 at 5:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

No need to get upset, George was making two basic points. The first was that copying settings is not calibration nor it is helpful in terms of getting the best picture out of the display. You didn't copy settings but you did post them so that others may copy them ("Hopefully this gives some a good base to go one if they have this set."), which is okay in the LCD forum but not in the calibration forum since copying settings is not calibration.

The second point was about what calibration is really about and based on your posts, it seems you would not prefer a properly calibrated display over your own settings which are created to give you a subjectively pleasing picture quality.

Calibration is about image fidelity, not what one individual considers to be subjectively pleasing.

While I do see your point, I do have a couple of issues with them. Firstly, I did ask that if this is in the wrong section that a mod move it for me. As you can see I have not been on this forum very long and cutting me a little slack would be the polite thing to do. Saying nothing but linking to a couple of posts that are chalked full of his own personal opinions is extremely rude.

Secondly, what good is calibrating a television if it is not pleasing to the eye? I do not know about you but I like to enjoy the picture on my television.

Third, I never once said that I prefer my own settings over a calibrated unit. I do not have a professional calibrator in my area whatsoever, so I have no other options but to do it this way. I'm sure I'm not the only one that is in this position. I've said a couple of times that these would be a good base for someone to start from, never said they would work for everyone, but for those that have no options like me, then at least it's something.

What I do find quite alarming is the attitude of professional calibrators here. I could be way off base, but it seems that they could care less about what their customers want. In this day and age, at their prices, where their services would be considered a luxury, you would think they would be geared more towards customer service. I can honestly say that if I hired someone to come in and calibrate my TV and they left with my set calibrated but me not happy with the picture, they would most likely not be getting any money from me.

Image fidelity may be a part of their job but that is subjective to the person who will be spending the time using that television. My definition of what is the best view will differ from yours, my wife's, my next door neighbor's. Numbers are one thing, but you must also account for one's tastes.

Bottom line is that I was only trying to help others out, if it is in the wrong section please move it and delete the rest of this nonsense.
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post #17 of 37
4/22/12 at 5:40am
rednekcowboy,

Actually most of the pro calibrators do listen to their customers and strive to make them happy but at the same time if one does not desire an accurate image why would they hire a pro calibrator to obtain it (when that is exactly what they do... calibrate to industry standards). Now please do not take this wrong as I am not trying to argue with you at all, just making a point.

Many of the industry experts and pro calibrators here can appear to come off half cocked, however, rest assured that they are only trying to help and it can be difficult to convey tone on the internet. GeorgeAB is one of those guys that can come across very blunt and seemingly rude but he has a passion for this stuff that few share and to those with less knowledge/experience in these areas it can seem very condescending even though that was not the intent. I don't know George at all so I am not trying to defend him here, I am simply letting you in on the politics that frequent this board and not to take it personally. When someone here wishes to make it personal, you'll know it (cool thing is you can then just add them to your ignore list).

Regards,
Jason
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post #18 of 37
4/22/12 at 8:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

rednekcowboy,

Actually most of the pro calibrators do listen to their customers and strive to make them happy but at the same time if one does not desire an accurate image why would they hire a pro calibrator to obtain it (when that is exactly what they do... calibrate to industry standards). Now please do not take this wrong as I am not trying to argue with you at all, just making a point.

Many of the industry experts and pro calibrators here can appear to come off half cocked, however, rest assured that they are only trying to help and it can be difficult to convey tone on the internet. GeorgeAB is one of those guys that can come across very blunt and seemingly rude but he has a passion for this stuff that few share and to those with less knowledge/experience in these areas it can seem very condescending even though that was not the intent. I don't know George at all so I am not trying to defend him here, I am simply letting you in on the politics that frequent this board and not to take it personally. When someone here wishes to make it personal, you'll know it (cool thing is you can then just add them to your ignore list).

Regards,
Jason

Hey Jason,

I do see what you are saying and am not on here to bash pro cal's either.

I am a little confused though as George makes pro calibration sound like an absolute certainty, however the more I'm reading I'm learning that there are various numbers of ways to calibrate, with various different tools and various different control sets. So, in conclusion, and please correct me if I am wrong, but Pro Calibration is in, by no means, an exact science and in the end comes down to the Pro doing the Calibrating and what they feel is the best tool, control set and numbers to use?

In fact, I could probably have 2 different guys come in here at 2 different times and produce 2 very different results on the same set, correct?
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post #19 of 37
4/22/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post


In fact, I could probably have 2 different guys come in here at 2 different times and produce 2 very different results on the same set, correct?

This statement is what is known as trolling and is not correct at all.
If it was not meant as such and I don't think it was, please explain how and why 2 professionals with equal skill sets and equipment, working on the same set, in the same environment would come up with substantial different settings.

The Rec 709 Standard an exact science but consumer sets are not perfect and many times they can not reproduce the 709 standard perfectly. This is where the experience of the real pro comes into play. They have the knowledge to know what compromises will be lease noticeable to the human eye and how to work around manufacture limitation.

Just like all service providers, all pros are not equal and it is up to the consumer to figure out which one is the good one..

Please note, I am NOT a professional Calibrator but I have made the investment in tools and knowledge to do my own calibrations and with this limited experience, dealing with my displays and friends displays, I have come to understand how difficult it is for the Pros and my admiration is constantly growing for the really good ones that I have come to know while learning.
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post #20 of 37
4/22/12 at 8:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

This statement is what is known as trolling and is not correct at all.
If it was not meant as such and I don't think it was, please explain how and why 2 professionals with equal skill sets and equipment, working on the same set, in the same environment would come up with substantial different settings.

The Rec 709 Standard an exact science but consumer sets are not perfect and many times they can not reproduce the 709 standard perfectly. This is where the experience of the real pro comes into play. They have the knowledge to know what compromises will be lease noticeable to the human eye and how to work around manufacture limitation.

Just like all service providers, all pros are not equal and it is up to the consumer to figure out which one is the good one..

Please note, I am NOT a professional Calibrator but I have made the investment in tools and knowledge to do my own calibrations and with this limited experience, dealing with my displays and friends displays, I have come to understand how difficult it is for the Pros and my admiration is constantly growing for the really good ones that I have come to know while learning.

Not meant to troll at all, and I apologize if it comes across that way.

My point is that one cal may use one set of tools and numbers while another may use an entirely different set of tools and numbers so saying that a set can be calibrated to a certainty is not necessarily true because it depends on the preference of the calibrator as to what tools and numbers he/she so chooses to use.

I am simply asking for more information because, from a cursory view and a n00b outlook, it seems that there is not one single set of standards to calibrate by, but a variety of sets and tools that can produce a variety of results depending on what the calibrator decides to use.
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post #21 of 37
4/22/12 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post

Not meant to troll at all, and I apologize if it comes across that way.

My point is that one cal may use one set of tools and numbers while another may use an entirely different set of tools and numbers so saying that a set can be calibrated to a certainty is not necessarily true because it depends on the preference of the calibrator as to what tools and numbers he/she so chooses to use.

I am simply asking for more information because, from a cursory view and a n00b outlook, it seems that there is not one single set of standards to calibrate by, but a variety of sets and tools that can produce a variety of results depending on what the calibrator decides to use.

Variety of tools? Meters and software vary but they all work approximately the same. There might be slightly different workflows among individuals but they are all basically the same and all calibration is towards the exact same goal.

A display calibrated to industry standards is pleasing and that is precisely what this particular forum is about. If someone doesn't appreciate watching video content looking as close as possible to what the movie/TV director wanted the viewers to see then he obviously isn't a candidate for calibration. Of course, one wouldn't know until he has actually seen a calibrated display and until that time you're making semi educated guesses on a science forum.
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post #22 of 37
4/22/12 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post

Not meant to troll at all, and I apologize if it comes across that way.

My point is that one cal may use one set of tools and numbers while another may use an entirely different set of tools and numbers so saying that a set can be calibrated to a certainty is not necessarily true because it depends on the preference of the calibrator as to what tools and numbers he/she so chooses to use.

I am simply asking for more information because, from a cursory view and a n00b outlook, it seems that there is not one single set of standards to calibrate by, but a variety of sets and tools that can produce a variety of results depending on what the calibrator decides to use.

There are certainly aspects of the calibration process that can require a judgement call from your calibrator. Often these things arise from limitations in the client's display - for example, the calibrator may be faced with choosing a saturation error over a luminence error for one or more primary color because of the limits imposed by poorly designed display controls. Not only will the end result rely on the accuracy of your calibrator's equipment, but it will also depend upon the depth of their knowledge. As airscapes pointed out, not all calibrators are created equally. The standards to which a display should be calibrated are not what changes from calibrator to calibrator - how they get as close to those standards as possible given the limitations of the display, their equipment, and their knowledge will. This is why it is incumbent upon the end user - you - to do your reasearch and know what to look for prior to hiring a pro calibrator. And this is exactly why this forum is such an amazing resource - it can give you the tools to do so confidently.
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post #23 of 37
4/22/12 at 9:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Variety of tools? Meters and software vary but they all work approximately the same. There might be slightly different workflows among individuals but they are all basically the same and all calibration is towards the exact same goal.

I'm even more confused now, do these tools and workflows not determine the outcome? If, by your own admission, there are a variety of each one of these, this would result in possible hundreds of different combinations producing exponentially different results. I would hardly call that a science.

I really am not trying to be argumentative here, so making minor digs, etc is not helping. I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this information. It would be much easier to understand if, as an industry, they said--this is the tool we use, with these parameters to achieve these results--then I would agree with you guys wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, from what I am reading, I am seeing pro cal a uses "Tool A" and "Workflow B" because he feels they produce the greatest results while another pro cal will us "Tool B" and "Workflow C" because he feels they produce the most accurate results. In the end, it is not scientific at all but rather comes down to the preference of the pro cal, not the end user, not the video maker but based on his/her own opinions.

Am I wrong in this assumption? If I am please correct me because I really do want to understand!!
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post #24 of 37
4/22/12 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post

In the end, it is not scientific at all but rather comes down to the preference of the pro cal, not the end user, not the video maker but based on his/her own opinions.

Am I wrong in this assumption? If I am please correct me because I really do want to understand!!

Yes, you are incorrect. Some calibrators do preliminary adjustments in grayscale, some in color gamut, etc. In the long run it doesn't make any difference because when an adjustment is made other areas are often affected. Calibration is an iterative process and different aspects of the calibration are continually revisited until the errors in ALL areas are minimized. That is why a calibration with merely 10 points of grayscale and 6 points of color can easily take more than 3 hours. In the long run the nuances of workflow add up to the same finished product.
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post #25 of 37
4/22/12 at 9:59am
rednekcowboy, you may want to read this article, it helps explain why we calibrate and why sets are not calibrated from the factory.
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-tvs...-from-factory/

There are several other articles on Michael's site that are rather informative as well.

As you read and learn you will understand that calibration of a display is not a NEED, it is a Want. Most folks like what the industry provides from the factory and don't really care about what shade of white the Toyota commercial background is. They own a $600 TV and would never consider spending $350 to have it calibrated.. Then there are others that do care about such silly things as this..

You mention different tools, well yes, there are different levels of calibration completeness. You can do it part way with a DVD/BR calibrations disk that provides patterns to help you set the user level settings such as brightness, contrast, sharpness, overscan, main color and Tint

Or you can go to the next step which requires significant investment in Software and meters to perform a proper Gray Scale adjustment (setting white to D65)
If the set has Gamma adjustments you use the same meter and software to choose the best preset for the room environment and make detailed adjustments to the Gamma Curve if the display has the needed tools that work correctly.
If the set has a Color Management system and the meter is of significant accuracy you can also adjust the location of the primary colors so the match the 709 HD spec. The targets of all these settings are set in stone as a published spec that everyone in the industry should follow. So when the director picks a color for the rug in the room, you will see the color he picked not a pinker or oranger shade.
So as you can see, it is a Want and not a Need.. who cares what the rug looks like? Well, a lot of people.. but then a lot don't really care one way or the other..
Until you have watched a properly calibrated set for an extended period of time, and then walked into a store selling TVs, you will never really understand the obsession for perfection we all have here.

Here is an older article that is actually what got me interested in this from the beginning and my be helpful to you.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Unfortunately there is a lot to this and it takes some time to absorb it all and understand it all.. many hours of read.
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post #26 of 37
4/22/12 at 10:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Yes, you are incorrect. Some calibrators do preliminary adjustments in grayscale, some in color gamut, etc. In the long run it doesn't make any difference because when an adjustment is made other areas are often affected. Calibration is an iterative process and different aspects of the calibration are continually revisited until the errors in ALL areas are minimized. That is why a calibration with merely 10 points of grayscale and 6 points of color can easily take more than 3 hours. In the long run the nuances of workflow add up to the same finished product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

rednekcowboy, you may want to read this article, it helps explain why we calibrate and why sets are not calibrated from the factory.
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-tvs...-from-factory/

There are several other articles on Michael's site that are rather informative as well.

As you read and learn you will understand that calibration of a display is not a NEED, it is a Want. Most folks like what the industry provides from the factory and don't really care about what shade of white the Toyota commercial background is. They own a $600 TV and would never consider spending $350 to have it calibrated.. Then there are others that do care about such silly things as this..

You mention different tools, well yes, there are different levels of calibration completeness. You can do it part way with a DVD/BR calibrations disk that provides patterns to help you set the user level settings such as brightness, contrast, sharpness, overscan, main color and Tint

Or you can go to the next step which requires significant investment in Software and meters to perform a proper Gray Scale adjustment (setting white to D65)
If the set has Gamma adjustments you use the same meter and software to choose the best preset for the room environment and make detailed adjustments to the Gamma Curve if the display has the needed tools that work correctly.
If the set has a Color Management system and the meter is of significant accuracy you can also adjust the location of the primary colors so the match the 709 HD spec. The targets of all these settings are set in stone as a published spec that everyone in the industry should follow. So when the director picks a color for the rug in the room, you will see the color he picked not a pinker or oranger shade.
So as you can see, it is a Want and not a Need.. who cares what the rug looks like? Well, a lot of people.. but then a lot don't really care one way or the other..
Until you have watched a properly calibrated set for an extended period of time, and then walked into a store selling TVs, you will never really understand the obsession for perfection we all have here.

Here is an older article that is actually what got me interested in this from the beginning and my be helpful to you.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Unfortunately there is a lot to this and it takes some time to absorb it all and understand it all.. many hours of read.


OK, I think I get what you guys are saying. There is 1 standard set of specs that everyone tries to achieve, as closely as they can due to the varying correctness and quality of the commercial sets they are calibrating, and are just using a variety of different tools to achieve that standard?

Again, sorry for being such a n00b, but like airscapes said, I've always had a $650 TV so I could not justify spending $350 to get it calibrated, just made no sense to do so. However now spending 2 or 3 times that amount, I simply want to have to best viewing experience I can.

I'll be moving to Montreal soon so hopefully, there will be a pro cal available in my area that I can talk to and possibly hire (if I can convince my wife to spend the money lol).
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post #27 of 37
4/22/12 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post

OK, I think I get what you guys are saying. There is 1 standard set of specs that everyone tries to achieve, as closely as they can due to the varying correctness and quality of the commercial sets they are calibrating, and are just using a variety of different tools to achieve that standard?

Again, sorry for being such a n00b, but like airscapes said, I've always had a $650 TV so I could not justify spending $350 to get it calibrated, just made no sense to do so. However now spending 2 or 3 times that amount, I simply want to have to best viewing experience I can.

I'll be moving to Montreal soon so hopefully, there will be a pro cal available in my area that I can talk to and possibly hire (if I can convince my wife to spend the money lol).

The pros do what they call Calibration Tours. They travel to an area and do a dozen or more calibrations then fly home.. So no need to have a local person, just one that frequents your area. It is worth the wait for the good ones.. Read the info I linked to and stay tuned to this forum, there is no rush to get the job done, especially if rushing causes you to choose poorly. Like having an addition installed on you home you want the good guys, and in this field you should want someone that will educate you in the process as it is being performed. (See hit and run calibration on M. Chen's site)
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post #28 of 37
4/22/12 at 10:30am
Before you spend the money on a calibrator go here, download the AVSHD file, burn it, read the Patterns Manual which you can download in the same place, and do the basics for the cost of one blank DVD or BD disc. This will get you 2/3 of the way. The rest takes patience, meters, software, experience, etc. but some of it such as getting rid of unwanted coloration in dark patterns can be dialed out with grayscale controls and your eyeballs. It won't be totally accurate but it will be better.
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post #29 of 37
4/22/12 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednekcowboy View Post

While I do see your point, I do have a couple of issues with them. Firstly, I did ask that if this is in the wrong section that a mod move it for me. As you can see I have not been on this forum very long and cutting me a little slack would be the polite thing to do. Saying nothing but linking to a couple of posts that are chalked full of his own personal opinions is extremely rude.

Secondly, what good is calibrating a television if it is not pleasing to the eye? I do not know about you but I like to enjoy the picture on my television.

Third, I never once said that I prefer my own settings over a calibrated unit. I do not have a professional calibrator in my area whatsoever, so I have no other options but to do it this way. I'm sure I'm not the only one that is in this position. I've said a couple of times that these would be a good base for someone to start from, never said they would work for everyone, but for those that have no options like me, then at least it's something.

What I do find quite alarming is the attitude of professional calibrators here. I could be way off base, but it seems that they could care less about what their customers want. In this day and age, at their prices, where their services would be considered a luxury, you would think they would be geared more towards customer service. I can honestly say that if I hired someone to come in and calibrate my TV and they left with my set calibrated but me not happy with the picture, they would most likely not be getting any money from me.

Image fidelity may be a part of their job but that is subjective to the person who will be spending the time using that television. My definition of what is the best view will differ from yours, my wife's, my next door neighbor's. Numbers are one thing, but you must also account for one's tastes.

Bottom line is that I was only trying to help others out, if it is in the wrong section please move it and delete the rest of this nonsense.

The first thing to address is those two articles that George posted links to. They actually are not opinions but rather good explanations about why copying settings isn't calibration and isn't helpful at all AND what calibration is truly about which is not making the image look as lifelike as possible or like what you see in a movie theater.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-we-calibrate-myths/

Image fidelity can be very pleasing to the eye and it certainly is to anyone that spends hundreds or thousands of dollars in this forum on getting the most out of their displays via calibration. Some things like the white point and gamut target have nothing to do with the client's preferences when getting their set professionally calibrated since white should always be D65 and gamut should be HD, Rec. 709. However, overall light output (peak white) and gamma can vary based on viewing conditions and preferences of the client.

Regarding the third point you said:

"While I may not be a professional, I would like someone to come here and see if they can get the picture any better than I have it now using the user menu system. I can pretty much guarentee you that even a professional could not match what I have done."

This seems pretty obvious to me that you prefer your settings over pro calibrated ones. A lot of people new to calibrating and this forum make the argument about copying settings being a good starting point or base, but that is simply not true for reasons outlined in the article George linked you to.

Any professional calibrators worth their salt does want the client to be completely satisfied with the picture post-cal and will adjust the picture to the client's preferences within reason (aka while still following reference standards closely or completely). However, if you can't stand the look a calibrated set or just want the picture to look like something purely subjective as opposed to reference standards, calibration may not be for you.
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post #30 of 37
4/22/12 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

The first thing to address is those two articles that George posted links to. They actually are not opinions but rather good explanations about why copying settings isn't calibration and isn't helpful at all AND what calibration is truly about which is not making the image look as lifelike as possible or like what you see in a movie theater.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-we-calibrate-myths/

Image fidelity can be very pleasing to the eye and it certainly is to anyone that spends hundreds or thousands of dollars in this forum on getting the most out of their displays via calibration. Some things like the white point and gamut target have nothing to do with the client's preferences when getting their set professionally calibrated since white should always be D65 and gamut should be HD, Rec. 709. However, overall light output (peak white) and gamma can vary based on viewing conditions and preferences of the client.

Regarding the third point you said:

"While I may not be a professional, I would like someone to come here and see if they can get the picture any better than I have it now using the user menu system. I can pretty much guarentee you that even a professional could not match what I have done."

This seems pretty obvious to me that you prefer your settings over pro calibrated ones. A lot of people new to calibrating and this forum make the argument about copying settings being a good starting point or base, but that is simply not true for reasons outlined in the article George linked you to.

Any professional calibrators worth their salt does want the client to be completely satisfied with the picture post-cal and will adjust the picture to the client's preferences within reason (aka while still following reference standards closely or completely). However, if you can't stand the look a calibrated set or just want the picture to look like something purely subjective as opposed to reference standards, calibration may not be for you.


Nah, it's all good now. I'm just starting to understand what is involved and things. Not saying at all that I think my adjustments are better than pro as I have no idea what pro would look like.

My mistake was to post in the wrong section, though I am glad now that I did because I am learning so much.

As far as the settings I currently have. I wasn't even going to bother with it as I will be swapping this set out with the 632U model, but after searching and finding very little info out there on the 630U model, I thought I would run through and do what I could and post the settings for someone stuck in a similar situation as I was. Just trying to be helpful, not meant to ruffle any feathers whatsoever.
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