Total Recall Special Edition (1990) - Page 13

I have my display set to 24fps and my Blu-ray outputs at that rate, but I've always seen on discs 23.976 when I call up the info. This new Total Recall disc is the first one that actually says 24.

Got my copy today from Amazon...

Watching it right now. This looks WAAAYYY better than the old US version. Definitely worth it for those on the fence. NagysAudio's description a few posts back is spot on. I wish more catalog releases would look this good.

Glad to hear they got it right. My Best Buy only got 1 copy in and me and 3 employees looking together couldn't find it. Looks like I'll be getting my ass to Mars via Amazon.
Edited by Waboman - 7/31/12 at 9:55pm

I just finished watching the US Mind-Bending edition, and afterwards, I tossed in the Optimum UK release to compare the two. I have the original US release in my destined-for-ebay pile as well, but I clearly remember it being vastly inferior to the Optimum UK edition when I last compared those two, so I'm not going to bother giving it a spin this time.

My opinion of the new US Blu-ray lines up with that of 42041 and NagysAudio. This is a raw, unmolested 2K scan of a grainy movie from the 90s with lots of optical effects and no cleanup. It takes on a rather milky appearance sometimes, but it does look like film. The colors are subdued and I wouldn't say the flesh tones look very healthy, but pretty much every scene is lit by florescent lighting and actors' skin tones reflect that. The Optimum release sometimes has more satisfying flesh tones, but they also creep into reddish territory as well, so who's to say which is "correct"? Detail is excellent. Grain is powerful in some shots, but I'll take that over even the mildest DNR any day of the week.

I'll also take the highlights of the new transfer over the Optimum version any day. Its highlights are blown out and frequently take on a blue tinge. Neon signs and florescent lights bloom and mask detail that's visible on the new transfer. Lastly, the Optimum release has some noticeable motion artifacts during pans and frozen grain. Its only real benefit in my eyes is the overall deeper black level and punchier look, but that paired with the blown highlights and artifacts make for a more video-like presentation.

In my case, the Optimum release, while still quite decent, is going to join my old US Blu-ray in the ebay pile.

I checked because I saw your post before I watched, and I saw the same thing. I don't recall (ha) seeing any Blu-ray encoded at a true 24fps. I didn't notice the extra frame every 17 minutes noted by eric.exe

What is the consensus on the stupid trailers at the beginning? On a PS3, there's no way to go to the "Top Menu." One has to skip through all of the trailers manually. Is this true for other players, or editions (like the UK)? Annoying.

P.S. I've Just sampled the old US release and it looked downright embarrassing. I'll pass it down to someone. I also took a peek at the old UK edition and it was an inconsistent DNR mess. Just look at the ending, it's worse than Predator UHE. But still much superior to the old US release. I'd sell it, but it's part of my Schwarzenegger collection from the UK (Total Recall, Red Heat (DNR free), and Raw Deal).

P.P.S. Can any video experts chime in on the 24 fps versus 23.976 fps. Technically 24 is more accurate, but I've only seen 23.976 fps for video before...

i have UK copy too! Shall I get this one too?

It's the same on my Oppo BDP-93. It's funny because I watched Trainspotting a couple nights ago--also a Lionsgate release--and it was the same situation. I meant to include that in my post, but forgot. Lionsgate does this a lot, and every time I fire up a Blu-ray that forces me to watch trailers and ads, I get one step closer to getting an HTPC so I can rip the actual movie to a media server and skip this garbage.

anyone else have comments on the mind bending experience???

Got a copy of the new version the other day, saw it last night, and was very impressed with the picture and sound overall. Much better than I hoped for (given how people were on the PQ in this thread), and a good replacement for the LE DVD I've had for years (though I won't get rid of the DVD just yet because of the extras not on the new disc). My only real problem was that I noticed dropped frames in over a dozen instances, although this may be due more to my own hardware setup than the product itself. (I use an Onkyo 609 and a Panasonic BDT-210; surely one of these is to blame.) Otherwise it came out great, and I'd recommend it to anyone.

I was under the impression that 23.976 is the actual correct numbers for what we all know as 24fps and if it's doing 24.00 it's doing something wrong!
Anyone else cause I'm not 100% on this one?

Thus far only had the time to watch the first hour and what I have seen looks fantastic. High frequency fine detail is beautifully resolved throughout the film, the exceptions would be with shots and sequences with optical effects and those are indeed softer. I do not think it is all that distracting but it is noticeable when contrasted with the rest of the film.

I do not know if this replicates the original intended color timing but overall what is here is excellent, no more clipped or blooming highlights for example. Shadow detail is great and thankfully they did not crush the blacks for more pop. Trade off though for some is infrequent instances where contrast does not have the excessively vaunted 'inky blacks', which often comes at the cost of shadow detail.

Due to the color timing flesh tones in particular can be rather curious in their inconsistency in certain instances. I think it stands out more due to the more pinkish/reddish hues since we have been accustomed and conditioned to accept orange as 'accurate' skin tones. Always laugh and roll my eyes when reviews extoll the virtues of teal/orange color timed films to have accurate, lifelike, and pleasing skin tones.

Sound is as it should be but those accustomed to contemporary action movie mixes maybe slightly dissatisfied. It does have some nice bass but not throbbing or bloated; top end is quite dynamic though at times it can be a bit too pronounced for my tastes. Dialogue is clear and to me sounds more dynamic and less restrained by processing than heard often these days. I will have rewatch the film and pay closer attention to the sound mix for a more concise assessment.

As far as I am concerned if all catalog titles were treated this well, in respects to the picture quality in particular, the medium would be astronomically superior.
Imagine if Blade Runner received a new encode it would look as good if not better than this.

My verdict is if you have the prior releases, chuck them. Why be cruel and hock those abominations on unsuspecting fans.

Does anyone know if PV has plans to work on some of his other works, such as Starship Troopers or Robocop?

Best Regards
KvE

PS Yes the screen caps taken by reputable sources were accurate and representative of the 'in-motion' test.

-Diatribe pending.
The thing that I find to be a real negative, and this is an issue for many discs -Disney cough, about this release is Lionsgate propensity and asinine stupidity in the damn forced trailers before the menu.
One cannot press the Top Menu to skip to the Menu proper, one has to skip forward for each trailer. Then you have sit through another Studio Canal moniker video.

Absolutely loath and despise forced trailers before the menu, it is a terrible obnoxious marketing gimmick that unnecessarily burdens and annoys legitimate paying customers. Provides plenty of incentive for folks to rip their collections to remove those excessive indulgences.

It makes absolutely no sense in the long term to have an 'up and coming' trailer fest when six months later those titles have already been released and likely been viewed or purchased by the viewer.

In practice I am far more inclined to actually watch included trailers if I can choose to watch them from the menu. Never should be required to press more than one button to actually get to the menu and the button press should solely be 'Play'.

Next annoyance is trailers and studio monikers that are excessively louder than the movie proper. Especially obnoxious are trailers and intro that are grossly distorted, Anime and Indie release seem to be repeat offenders in this regard.
Edited by KMFDMvsEnya - 8/1/12 at 9:08am

23.976 is actually what we commonly refer to as 24p. This movie is infact encoded at 24.000fps but that is set during encoding, no consumer systems is decoding it improperly. I have noticed that Studio Canal has been releasing some catalog movies at this framerate lately, such as this, Raw Deal, and Red Heat (EU) (all Arnie films, but what I remember right now). I think they are improperly enconding them.

If people notice the movie is out of sync on their systems, it's probably because their equipment is having an issue with the 24.000 framerate which isn't exactly common.

So far, so good. A couple simple, first impressions: the image appears more detailed overall and LFE has more impact at the same levels, especially noticeable in the score. Some of the earlier screenshots showing washed out colors are just plain wrong - I'm not seeing anything like that. The image is brighter, yes, but I think those caps are misleading if not viewed in context. Skin tones are certainly rosey, but I'll take that over orange any day! What struck me more than anything is that the new disc appears smoother in motion than the old disc. It could be the bump up in fine detail and the lack of artifacts, but it just looks better in pans and fast action... more filmlike, less digital.

Well worth the meager asking price.

BTW, anyone want to buy my old copy?

StudioCanal have been doing stuff in 24.000fps for a while, I remember my old samsung player stuttering with their original UK release of Stargate. Linewalker's post above mentions dropped frames re: Total Recall, and least one review I've read has also mentioned dropped frames. I didn't notice anything untoward on my Panny BBT01 though.

I would think that if your display is natively 23.976 (or 59.94) and is being fed a 24.000 (60.00) signal, the display would actually have to drop frames to stay in sync (as LineWalker and Geoff D mention). This would happen with 1 out of every 1000 frames, which works out to one dropped frame approximately every 42 seconds.

I don't know for sure if this is what actually happens in this scenario, but it seems likely. I do own at least one 24.000 disc (the UK release of Highlander) and my TV is an older 1080i (59.94) model, but haven't tested the combination yet.

"This would happen with 1 out of every 1000 frames, which works out to one dropped frame approximately every 42 seconds."

That's funny, because this is what happens on most blu's on my projection system. I have a PS3 and a JVC RS20.......beuler?

I used to get the periodic (and I guess it was probably every 42 seconds) frame drop issue in 1080p24 mode on my Samsung TV a few years ago, but a firmware update fixed that.

anyone else want to comment on their copies of this disc??? And please compare and mention what other versions you have; that would help;)

I had contrary to popular belief watched the actual disc.
But for obvious reasons I will leave my comments on the transfer well alone!

Both 2010 and Dune meet the criteria you claim to want. Both are pretty much straightforward film scans without digital molestation. 2010 is a heavily grainy movie by nature, and the Blu-ray suffers some compression problems due to low bit rate. The film elements for the Dune Blu-ray have some dirt and damage that wasn't cleaned up. Both are otherwise free of DNR, sharpening and other crap that would lead to a "processed" appearance.

Josh Z, neither of the movies have a good modern 2K scan. They both came from archaic DVD era scans/masters.

dvdmike007, I'm curious to read your review, as are many others around here. Please post your thoughts!

I am not sure, but I think almost all players are that way.

The reason why the TOP MENU button is disabled is the same reason why television networks hate DVRs.

Suddenly, it's in to be cryptic.
Edited by homogenic - 8/2/12 at 1:17pm

2010 most certainly did not. It wasn't even the same transfer as the version shown on HDNet. It was a new scan. And I don't care if I'm mocked for this but as a huge fan of the film (and 2001) I was *very* happy with the A/V quality of that BD.

You could not possibly be more wrong about this. Have you actually watched either disc? Have you seen the DVD editions of either?

The only DVD edition of 2010 was non-anamorphic letterbox. As Peter already responded, the Blu-ray was a new 2k scan that was different than even the broadcast HD masters. The movie has a very dark and grainy photographic style, and aside from some compression problems, that is accurately reflected on the Blu-ray.

You do not want to challenge me on Dune. I know this movie on a frame-by-frame basis. Except for the recent 3D conversion released in Germany (my copy is ordered and pending arrival), I've seen and own every video transfer of this movie that has ever been struck, anywhere in the world. I watched the American Blu-ray, the UK Blu-ray and another recent German Blu-ray just last week.

Universal's American Blu-ray release is not an "archaic DVD era scan/master." It's a direct port of the HD DVD edition. At the time of the HD DVD's release in 2006, it was a brand new master (quite unusual for Universal) that looks an order of magnitude better than the studio's prior DVD from a few years earlier, which had been DNR'ed to hell and back. The HD DVD and Blu-ray are not DNR'ed or "processed." At all. They are exceptionally film-like. Their only flaw is the aforementioned minor dirt and damage on the film elements.

If you're going to insist that the Dune Blu-ray is an "archaic DVD era scan/master," you quite bluntly do not know what you're talking about.
Edited by Josh Z - 8/3/12 at 12:32pm

You really don't.

I own both Blu-Rays, I'll take another look...

This is one reason why the first thing I do with a new title is to rip it to a BD ISO. Then I can play it over my network with either with the full menus and trailers intact. Or I can just play the movie only, bypassing all the extraneous content.

Absotruthly. I like 2010 a fair bit, and the BD competently reproduces Hyams' grainy anamorphic photography.