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Total Recall Special Edition (1990) - Page 19

post #541 of 559
8/27/12 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post

I watched this last night and aside from the color I thought it looked great. Grain was fine and sharp as a pin. Colorwise...it doesn't look like what I remember it looking like. It looks a bit "modernized" with cool hues, almost desaturated.
Unfortunately, my opinion of the film hasn't changed much. I find it just ok. Lots and lots of running and fighting, mostly in very small, cheap, plastic looking sets.
The problem with colors not being what people "remember" is that they all remember the saturated and contrast boosted video presentation we've had for years. If that's what someone really wants, they can just buy the old release.
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post #542 of 559
8/28/12 at 12:03am
Truth. Total recall has looked like a made for tv movie for far too long now. The US release finally comes to save the day and turns to movie back into something that looks professional.

Slight color tweaking or not, the gains heavily outweighs the negative.
Edited by FendersRule - 8/28/12 at 12:10am
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post #543 of 559
8/28/12 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

35mm tops out closer to 6k than 8k as far as detail goes

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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Key word: almost. By the time the image hits the cinema screen, you're in the same ballpark. Comparing them is a bit tricky, the print might have considerably higher absolute resolution and no digital artifacts, but there's the matter of frequency response.

Perceived resolution (which is what counts) is relative to the screen size and seating position.

That basically puts 1080p pretty damn close to the quality at a theater, even on a very large screen at home.
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post #544 of 559
8/28/12 at 7:05am
Considering that film producers presumably create a film to be presented to an audience in a cinema and that the inevitable compositing and printing losses are allowed for to arrive at a particular result for the audience, instead of arguing in circles about absolute resolution, can anyone advise whether there is a reference that is used in the film industry?

I'm thinking in terms of an ideal cinema and print that might serve as a reference for the best presentation a consumer could expect.

This "ideal", related back to the theatrical presentation of a movie should be what a Bluray ought to aim at, IMO, without extra tweaks.

Whilst it would be great to get the ON scanned at the highest resolution possible, quite frankly I think it is a fools errand as Bluray can not do it justice and it would not be the film that the producer would show the public anyway. I accept use of the ON when remaining elements are degraded, with the caveat that it be graded to the "ideal".

By all means, scan the ON at the best possible quality and preserve it as an archive whilst the film source deteriorates, but let's not fool ourselves that it is remotely close to what the producer/director/whoever intended us to see (and I don't mean what the producer could have done if the technology was somehow better at the time: a movie is a product of its place in time).

I would really like to see a Bluray of Total Recall that matches the presentation of the "ideal" theatrical experience as closely as possible, but I don't think that time has come yet.

Or are we really arguing about wanting a Bluray of a movie that betters the ideal theatrical experience?
Edited by IanD - 8/28/12 at 7:14am
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post #545 of 559
8/28/12 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

Perceived resolution (which is what counts) is relative to the screen size and seating position.

And also age of the eyes viewing the screen. I'm afraid that I would not see even a pristine print in a brand new analogue cinema now in quite the same way as I would have in my 20's.
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post #546 of 559
8/28/12 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Considering that film producers presumably create a film to be presented to an audience in a cinema and that the inevitable compositing and printing losses are allowed for to arrive at a particular result for the audience, instead of arguing in circles about absolute resolution, can anyone advise whether there is a reference that is used in the film industry?
There isn't.

Quote:
I'm thinking in terms of an ideal cinema and print that might serve as a reference for the best presentation a consumer could expect.
This "ideal", related back to the theatrical presentation of a movie should be what a Bluray ought to aim at, IMO, without extra tweaks.
Whilst it would be great to get the ON scanned at the highest resolution possible, quite frankly I think it is a fools errand as Bluray can not do it justice and it would not be the film that the producer would show the public anyway. I accept use of the ON when remaining elements are degraded, with the caveat that it be graded to the "ideal".
By all means, scan the ON at the best possible quality and preserve it as an archive whilst the film source deteriorates, but let's not fool ourselves that it is remotely close to what the producer/director/whoever intended us to see (and I don't mean what the producer could have done if the technology was somehow better at the time: a movie is a product of its place in time).
I would really like to see a Bluray of Total Recall that matches the presentation of the "ideal" theatrical experience as closely as possible, but I don't think that time has come yet.
A rational POV isn't allowed here....this is the internet.wink.gif
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post #547 of 559
8/28/12 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Considering that film producers presumably create a film to be presented to an audience in a cinema and that the inevitable compositing and printing losses are allowed for to arrive at a particular result for the audience, instead of arguing in circles about absolute resolution, can anyone advise whether there is a reference that is used in the film industry?
I'm thinking in terms of an ideal cinema and print that might serve as a reference for the best presentation a consumer could expect.
This "ideal", related back to the theatrical presentation of a movie should be what a Bluray ought to aim at, IMO, without extra tweaks.
Whilst it would be great to get the ON scanned at the highest resolution possible, quite frankly I think it is a fools errand as Bluray can not do it justice and it would not be the film that the producer would show the public anyway. I accept use of the ON when remaining elements are degraded, with the caveat that it be graded to the "ideal".
By all means, scan the ON at the best possible quality and preserve it as an archive whilst the film source deteriorates, but let's not fool ourselves that it is remotely close to what the producer/director/whoever intended us to see (and I don't mean what the producer could have done if the technology was somehow better at the time: a movie is a product of its place in time).
I would really like to see a Bluray of Total Recall that matches the presentation of the "ideal" theatrical experience as closely as possible, but I don't think that time has come yet.
Or are we really arguing about wanting a Bluray of a movie that betters the ideal theatrical experience?
Well, I certainly don't want a blu-ray that looks like your average wide-release print. I want them to look like a very nice print, in perfect focus.... which blu-ray can only hope to approximate, not better.
I'm sure if filmmakers in the analog days could make every print in the world look like the answer print they signed off on, they would. That's just not practical.
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post #548 of 559
8/28/12 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Considering that film producers presumably create a film to be presented to an audience in a cinema and that the inevitable compositing and printing losses are allowed for to arrive at a particular result for the audience, instead of arguing in circles about absolute resolution, can anyone advise whether there is a reference that is used in the film industry?
I'm thinking in terms of an ideal cinema and print that might serve as a reference for the best presentation a consumer could expect.
This "ideal", related back to the theatrical presentation of a movie should be what a Bluray ought to aim at, IMO, without extra tweaks.
Whilst it would be great to get the ON scanned at the highest resolution possible, quite frankly I think it is a fools errand as Bluray can not do it justice and it would not be the film that the producer would show the public anyway. I accept use of the ON when remaining elements are degraded, with the caveat that it be graded to the "ideal".
By all means, scan the ON at the best possible quality and preserve it as an archive whilst the film source deteriorates, but let's not fool ourselves that it is remotely close to what the producer/director/whoever intended us to see (and I don't mean what the producer could have done if the technology was somehow better at the time: a movie is a product of its place in time).
I would really like to see a Bluray of Total Recall that matches the presentation of the "ideal" theatrical experience as closely as possible, but I don't think that time has come yet.
Or are we really arguing about wanting a Bluray of a movie that betters the ideal theatrical experience?

Great, great post. This is what I have always tried to argue for in less eloquent terms.
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post #549 of 559
8/29/12 at 7:25am
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

There isn't.

You mean no reference white or standard for projector bulb colour or brightness per screen diagonal; no pristine master print before it is duped or sent through a projector for the first time, that can be used as an "ideal" to aim for in the generation of a Bluray?

That's just sad.
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post #550 of 559
8/29/12 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

You mean no reference white or standard for projector bulb colour or brightness per screen diagonal; no pristine master print before it is duped or sent through a projector for the first time, that can be used as an "ideal" to aim for in the generation of a Bluray?
That's just sad.
I'm not sure about reference white, I assume that would be a function of the lamp technology, but SMPTE standards do specify a recommended brightness.
And there's certainly "master" prints that can be used for reference, the filmmakers have to approve the final color timing after all... of course, older films fade.
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post #551 of 559
8/29/12 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

You mean no reference white or standard for projector bulb colour or brightness per screen diagonal.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about "resolution."
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post #552 of 559
8/29/12 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Sorry, I thought you were talking about "resolution."

Absolute resolution is probably the last thing I would consider in obtaining a Bluray as faithful to the theatrical presentation as possible, considering Bluray is only 1920x1080p and obviously film has higher intrinsic detail capability (in most cases).

My old eyes will probably never resolve higher detail than Bluray is capable of anyway, so my focus is on faithful colour reproduction/brightness/contrast and no filtering: if I want to tweak the appearance of a movie, I can do that well enough myself in the display chain.
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post #553 of 559
8/30/12 at 2:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

My focus is on faithful colour reproduction/brightness/contrast and no filtering: if I want to tweak the appearance of a movie, I can do that well enough myself in the display chain.
rolleyes.gif Current consumer displays are inferior.
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post #554 of 559
8/30/12 at 8:53am
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Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

rolleyes.gif Current consumer displays are inferior.

Inferior to what? What is your point?
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post #555 of 559
8/30/12 at 5:03pm
Soundwave superior, Constructicons inferior.
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post #556 of 559
8/30/12 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

rolleyes.gif Current consumer displays are inferior.

By display chain I meant player, VP and display.

I really dislike studios dumbing down releases to the lowest common denominator, when they should be aiming for the highest and allowing the consumer to dumb it down to their individual tastes: you can't go the reverse path once entropy has done its work.
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post #557 of 559
8/31/12 at 7:17am
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Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post

Inferior to what? What is your point?
In fairness, a lot of consumer displays come out of the box adjusted for shop-level lighting - which means massively inflated contrast/brightness/backlight/sharpness. Also means stuff like grain sticks out like a gigantic sore thumb, hence why studios end up DNR'ing the heck out of it - because Joe Average sees it through his eye-burning display and thinks "why the heck is this so fuzzy?"

That at the very least makes the majority of consumer displays inferior... Even if people can calibrate them to be better.
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post #558 of 559
8/31/12 at 10:06am
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Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

rolleyes.gif Current consumer displays are inferior.

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?google=13333
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post #559 of 559
8/31/12 at 11:50pm
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?google=13333
Is this your early birthday gift to me? Thank you.
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