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The *OFFICIAL* 2012 Samsung EH4000/EH5000/EH5300 Owner's Thread... - Page 48

post #1411 of 2167
yup the viewing angles are pretty much (for me at least) one and that is straight on. if i barely move from straight on, the TV goes grey......SMH
post #1412 of 2167
I find mine is good for about 30 degrees either way from centre, and viewable to 80+ degrees. But I can't tell you what panel it has.
post #1413 of 2167
on the rear side of your TV, what is the version? I think If it AH then its Optronics, TS is Samsung panel.
post #1414 of 2167
I have to reduce Blue Gain with your settings to 26 otherwise I see too much blue in the dark areas. I like your idea of activating the Eco Sensors with Backlight to 10.smile.gif
No matter which settings I try the grass still appears neon green on my set and I have seen this on most of the othe LED TV's as well. Is this why vediophiles prefer Plasma's? Is there any LED TV which is tru to colour gamut and does NOT show neon grass and lifeless skyblue?
post #1415 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by techpeter View Post

on the rear side of your TV, what is the version? I think If it AH then its Optronics, TS is Samsung panel.
As I have explained before, my label says "05", and nobody knows what that means. This is a UK set.
post #1416 of 2167
Hi all. I'm hoping someone can help me! I have been the owner of a 46" EH5300 for 6 months now and I am experiencing a strange problem. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced it? Recently, I am waking up in a morning to find my tv kind of on. The panel is not showing any picture at all and the standby light is on, but its not black like when its switched off. My guess is that the backlight is on? I switch it off at the plug to compare and it goes completely black then. This has happened a lot recently now, we are double checking that we are putting the tv onto standby, and it still happens.

Shall I return it to where I bought it?
post #1417 of 2167
rbmaster,
I agree that greyscale claibration does make huge improvement to the picture quality. But isn't it specific to the HDTV set and the Blu-ray player settings. If you change the colour saturation or brightness on the blu-ray player your calibration would also change? Or let's ay you change your blu-ray player, will the greyscale not change? Let me know if I am not speaking sense.
Does a claibrated TV also show improvement when used for wathcing cable channels? I am asking this because there is no way to claibrate TV seperately for cable tv.
Lastly, to my eyes the screenshots shown on blu-ray.com are truly reference quality. After you calibrated your Samsung, do you blu-ray images look close to those screenshots at blu-ray.com?

cheers
post #1418 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmaster View Post

What??? You surely don't know what you're talking about, I'll show you in pictures rather than text:

This is how your TV is performing:



This is how it will perform once calibrated::



That's a huge difference in picture quality and even worse is those settings like dynamic contrast, black tone, etc (which I bet you have them on too), all of those alter the original picture and makes it lost a lot of details.

So don't call other people picky for wanting to have a good picture on their tvs. Standard settings are awful on almost all lcd tvs, AWFUL!
But if you still want to have a bad picture with stupid colors which looks like you're watching your tv with blue lens glasses and lose a LOT of details too, be my guest, that's your tv and if you like it the way it is I'm not here to judge you, what's important is you're happy with it.
I surely agree with you :P


rbmaster,
I agree that greyscale claibration does make huge improvement to the picture quality. But isn't it specific to the HDTV set and the Blu-ray player settings. If you change the colour saturation or brightness on the blu-ray player your calibration would also change? Or let's ay you change your blu-ray player, will the greyscale not change? Let me know if I am not speaking sense.
Does a claibrated TV also show improvement when used for wathcing cable channels? I am asking this because there is no way to claibrate TV seperately for cable tv.
Lastly, to my eyes the screenshots shown on blu-ray.com are truly reference quality. After you calibrated your Samsung, do you blu-ray images look close to those screenshots at blu-ray.com?

cheers
post #1419 of 2167
The top shot is the way he thinks my TV is performing!
post #1420 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by techpeter View Post

rbmaster,
I agree that greyscale claibration does make huge improvement to the picture quality. But isn't it specific to the HDTV set and the Blu-ray player settings. If you change the colour saturation or brightness on the blu-ray player your calibration would also change? Or let's ay you change your blu-ray player, will the greyscale not change? Let me know if I am not speaking sense.
Does a claibrated TV also show improvement when used for wathcing cable channels? I am asking this because there is no way to claibrate TV seperately for cable tv.
Lastly, to my eyes the screenshots shown on blu-ray.com are truly reference quality. After you calibrated your Samsung, do you blu-ray images look close to those screenshots at blu-ray.com?

cheers

1- Some players (bd players, dvd players, pcs, etc) do offer some basic calibration controls but you should not mess with them, they are usefull only if your tv doesn't offer those calibration settings. You should always calibrate your display and let the player calibration options on default (they are not display calibration controls, they are sort of post processing calibration). All players should provide the same picture to your display, if they don't it's because they're applying some sort of post-processing effects to the picture.

2- A calibrated TV shows improvements whatever the source is. Be aware that you need to calibrate all the inputs individually (in this tv there are no differences between inputs, calibration wise they are the same, but there are some differences between Game Mode (Higher Contrast), PC Mode (Different Sharpness Method) and normal operation mode).

3- Are you watching those blu-ray.com pictures on a display calibrated to the reference levels? For example, I'm on my laptop, if I watch those pictures here they'll not look as they are intended to because my laptop's display do not meet the reference levels (by far). To compare your tv to a reference quality picture the easiest way is to print those pictures with an high quality printer.

4- My TV looks really close to the reference levels, it is not perfect but even if I calibrate it using professional equipment it would never be perfect. One thing I can assure you, it is way way way better than most of the displays I saw calibrated under 1000 pounds (<42 except panasonic plasma tvs).
post #1421 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashbot View Post

The top shot is the way he thinks my TV is performing!

It's the way it performs with the default settings (You said you were using the default settings so... :P)
post #1422 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmaster View Post

1- Some players (bd players, dvd players, pcs, etc) do offer some basic calibration controls but you should not mess with them, they are usefull only if your tv doesn't offer those calibration settings. You should always calibrate your display and let the player calibration options on default (they are not display calibration controls, they are sort of post processing calibration). All players should provide the same picture to your display, if they don't it's because they're applying some sort of post-processing effects to the picture.

2- A calibrated TV shows improvements whatever the source is. Be aware that you need to calibrate all the inputs individually (in this tv there are no differences between inputs, calibration wise they are the same, but there are some differences between Game Mode (Higher Contrast), PC Mode (Different Sharpness Method) and normal operation mode).

3- Are you watching those blu-ray.com pictures on a display calibrated to the reference levels? For example, I'm on my laptop, if I watch those pictures here they'll not look as they are intended to because my laptop's display do not meet the reference levels (by far). To compare your tv to a reference quality picture the easiest way is to print those pictures with an high quality printer.

4- My TV looks really close to the reference levels, it is not perfect but even if I calibrate it using professional equipment it would never be perfect. One thing I can assure you, it is way way way better than most of the displays I saw calibrated under 1000 pounds (<42 except panasonic plasma tvs).

Thanks for the quick response rbmaster.
I am getting more and more interested in the calibration process and eager to calibrate my TV some day. I know this is not the right forum to discuss calibration meters/tools, but can you guide me to some thread elsewhere in this forum that can help me? I have 2 HDTV's one with 2 point scale and another with 10 point calibration scale. Off late I never understood what to do with them, but now that I am elightened..cant wait smile.gif
What did you use to claibrate your TV?
Can you guide me with some inexpensive, not cheap but serious tool to calibrate my TV's? I know with each tool the results may vary a bit but I will still end up having a better TV set than others smile.gif
post #1423 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by techpeter View Post

Thanks for the quick response rbmaster.
I am getting more and more interested in the calibration process and eager to calibrate my TV some day. I know this is not the right forum to discuss calibration meters/tools, but can you guide me to some thread elsewhere in this forum that can help me? I have 2 HDTV's one with 2 point scale and another with 10 point calibration scale. Off late I never understood what to do with them, but now that I am elightened..cant wait smile.gif
What did you use to claibrate your TV?
Can you guide me with some inexpensive, not cheap but serious tool to calibrate my TV's? I know with each tool the results may vary a bit but I will still end up having a better TV set than others smile.gif

Free (and awesome btw) -> AVS HD 709 REC

Paid (best cost/quality calibration disc) -> Disney WOW: World of Wonder [Blu-ray] (25$ on Amazon)
Edited by rbmaster - 5/29/13 at 9:47am
post #1424 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmaster View Post

Free (and awesome btw) -> AVS HD 709 REC

Paid (best cost/quality calibration disc) -> Disney WOW: World of Wonder [Blu-ray] (25$ on Amazon)

Thank You!...and what meter do you use with AVSHD REC 709?
post #1425 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

UN40EH5000 Calibration Settings

(I'll update this post whenever I update my settings)

I have three different calibration settings for the three modes I use: "Standard", "Movie" and "PC mode" (which is what I call renaming the input to "PC" - eliminates subsampling and enables 4:4:4 capability).
All three modes have been calibrated to look the same.

* indicates where the settings diverge some in order to accommodate for differences in processing for each mode.

Pictures Settings

  • Backlight: 20 on all (adjust for your own room conditions).
  • Contrast: 92 on all
  • Brightness: 45 on Movie/"PC". I use 46 on "Standard" to compensate for the gamma shift caused by the automatic backlight dimming.
  • * Sharpness: 50 on "PC mode", 0-10 on "Movie/Standard" (your personal preference on those modes. I use 5)
  • * Color: 50 on "PC mode (can't change it)", 53 on "Movie", and 41 on "Standard" mode
  • Tint: 50/50 on all

Advanced Settings:

  • Color Space: Auto on all ("native" does horrible things to the greens)
  • * White Balance: R-Gain: 8, G-Gain: 25, B-Gain:27 on "Standard" Mode, "PC" Mode & "Movie" Mode both use R-Gain: 22, G-Gain: 39, B-Gain: 41
  • Gamma: -1 on all
  • Dynamic Contrast: Off on all
  • Black Tone: Off on all
  • Flesh Tone: 0 on all
  • Motion Lighting: Off on all, BUT the effect of this setting (dynamic backlight adjustment based on the percentage of black on screen) is always present on "Standard" mode anyways (also same for "Game Mode"), and I see no way to disable it. Movie and PC mode the automatic backlight dimming is disabled and motion lighting is greyed-out.


Picture Options:

  • Color Tone: Warm 2 on all.
  • * Size: 16:9 on "PC mode", Screen Fit on all other modes. These are the 1:1 ratios for this TV.
  • Digital Noise Filter: Off
  • HDMI Black Level: Depends on the source. It will be greyed out with a YCbCr signal - If it's greyed out you don't have to mess with it. With an RGB signal "Black Level: Normal" matches full range 0-255 signals, and "Black Level: Low" matches limited range 16-235 signals. Further explanation on full range vs limited range below...
  • LED Motion Plus: Off Led motion enables or disables backlight scanning. This intentionally flickers the backlight with the intention of reducing motion blur, but it also cuts the light output/brightness in half.


Keep in mind these settings are for a Samsung S-PVA panel.



______________________________

Notes:

Explanation of Basic Calibration, as well as limited range (16-235) vs full range (0-255) RGB signals. (Click to show)

Full Range 0-255 signal vs Limited Range 16-235:

8 bit RGB displays show 255 different values. So that's where the 0-255 comes from. 0 is pure black and 255 is pure white. This is what computers render at.

Videos, whether broadcast over cable or on a disc like blu ray compress that 0-255 range down to 16-235. They remap it so that 16 becomes pure black and 235 becomes pure white (instead of 0 and 255). If the TV isn't set to look for that "limited" range, it will keep looking for blacks and whites to spread across the entire 0-255 range. This is mismatched and the picture will quality will show it.

On the Samsungs, the "Black Level" adjustment controls this range. "Normal" sets the TV to 0-255, and "low" sets the TV to 16-235. It is only adjustable with an RGB signal, because RGB has the option of outputting at either limited range (16-235) or full range (0-255), while a YCbCr signal is always limited range. This is why the "Black Level" greys out when you have a YCbCr signal - the TV automatically sets itself to limited range as it knows YCbCr can only be limited range.

The majority of sources hooked up to a TV use the YCbCr color space by default (cable boxes, blu ray players). This is why most people will have the black level adjustment greyed out on their TV.

RGB is more likely to be used by a computer. Game consoles can use it too, but you sometimes have to go out of your way to turn it on.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is another way to think about it:

It's like trying to fit something into a box that's either too small, too big, or just right.

If the "box" (aka the TV) is too small (0-255 source signal going into a 16-235 TV) the corners get clipped off. The TV has set pure black to be at 16 even though the source is still outputting different shades all the way down to 0. The TV doesn't care though, and turns the 0-16 shades all into black. Same thing for the shades above 235 - the TV turns them all white even if there is information up there from the source. This is when you get crushed blacks and clipped whites.




If the "box" is too big (16-235 source signal into a 0-255 TV) there's a lot of wasted space that doesn't get used. This is when the blacks become dark grey and the picture washes out. The source wants the pure black to be up at 16, but the TV wants it down at 0, and the TV wins. Just like the Honey Badger, the TV doesn't care. So 16 ends up displaying as dark grey on the TV, even though the source thinks 16 is actually pure black. Result = washed out picture.



If the box is just right and a perfect fit (a 16-235 source signal going into a 16-235 TV... OR, a 0-255 source going into a 0-255 TV) it then fills up all the space perfectly without clipping any corners or having extra wasted space not being used. The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.



Basic Calibration:

By the way, this ^ ("The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.") is the same premise behind basic calibration. You want to set the white point to be as as white as possible without going over and clipping highlight information and without going under and washing out. You do this by adjusting contrast. You want to set the black point to be as black/dark as possible without going too low and crushing dark information or going too high and washing out (turning blacks dark grey). You do this by adjusting brightness. You want the color range to be as colorful as possible without going too high and clipping information (highest color shades blend together instead of being distinct) or going too low and washing out the colors. You do this by adjusting color. So on and so forth. You want to fill up all of the dynamic range that the TV has, as closely as possible, without going over or under.

This basic calibration stuff you can usually do by eye. You can look at patterns and see where it starts to clip information and set it just below that level. More advanced calibration involves adjusting the accuracy of the color, the greyscale color temperature, the gamma curve, etc. These things are harder to do by eye, which is why people use meters and software to help out.

I switch between PC, Movie, and Standard modes depending on what I'm watching. I have them all setup to look essentially identical to each other. I use PC for...monitor/PC use. Movie for TV. And Standard for gaming, and also for some movies/shows that have a lot of dark scenes (where the automatic backlight dimming is more beneficial)

I like to use AVS HD 709 to calibrate. I also used a blue filter for color/tint.

Good guidelines for doing a basic calibration, by PlasmaPZ80U.

[*] When renaming input to "PC", sharpness of 50 is the ideal setting, as anything above causes artifacts and anything below blurs pixels together. When not renaming input and on "Movie" mode, subsampling is turned on and the sharpness is more difficult to set. I don't recommend going above 15, and ideally somewhere between 0-10 would be better.


Differences between "Standard" mode and "Movie" mode.

1) Standard has always-on automatic backlight dimming, also known as "motion lighting" in the menus. The backlight dimming seems to happen on YCbCr signals as well as RGB full range, but not RGB limited range.In Movie mode backlight dimming is disabled completely (except for a pure black screen, where it will also shut off the backlight).
2) Standard has stronger color saturation, approximately 12 points more than Movie mode.
3) Standard has a higher white point (contrast), approximately 6 points more than Movie mode.


Turning up white balance R, G, & B gains simultaneously has the same effect as raising the contrast control (both raise the white point). So, calibrating "PC mode" and "Movie" mode to have the same contrast setting as "Standard" mode is possible, but it requires is that you turn up the R-G-B drives simultaneously - which is what I did above in my white balance settings.


- Some adjustment options are disabled when renaming an input to "PC".
- It is recommend to disable dynamic contrast, digital noise filter, and black tone as those controls are likely to screw up any calibration and degrade the picture.
- "Color Space: Native" over-saturates colors - "Auto" is recommended instead.
- "Game Mode" initially has horrible settings, with excessive sharpness, bad colors, and "dynamic contrast" enabled. Once you tune it down though, it behaves identically to "Standard" mode. It doesn't seem to change the input lag though (at least on the EH5000), so I'm not sure what exactly it's doing - and why Samsung thinks it "degrades the picture quality". It's possible that "Game mode" is simply an extra picture mode with no effect on processing, and the warnings are just a universal disclaimer to cover their higher end models where it actually does changes the processing...

__________________________________

Input Lag Results:

Input Lag Test Results (Click to show)
Here are my input lag test results for a Samsung UN40EH5000 (with Version TS02 S-PVA panel). Photos were taken at 1/1000 of a second, and the control screen is my laptop's TN display.

Average input lag appears to be 2 frames @ ~33 ms.

There isn't a substantial difference between having Game Mode ON or OFF from what I can see.


Game Mode ON:

50ms, 31ms, 50ms, 10ms, 37ms, 17ms, 34ms, 0ms ( zero?)




Normal (Game Mode OFF):

33ms, 16ms, 34ms, 32ms, 16ms, 50ms, 34ms, 32ms, 35ms




PC Mode (Renaming input to "PC", also allows 4:4:4 display):
20ms, 32ms, 33ms, 34ms, 39ms, 50ms, 17ms, 33ms, 51ms, 16ms, 17ms, 17ms, 35ms, 34ms, 16ms


Chicolom, which meter did you use along with AVSHD patterns to calibrate the greyscale?
post #1426 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by techpeter View Post

Thank You!...and what meter do you use with AVSHD REC 709?

Meter? O.o
post #1427 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmaster View Post

Meter? O.o

Colorimeter. And I think he mentioned he did it by eye a while back.
post #1428 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

Colorimeter. And I think he mentioned he did it by eye a while back.

This TV can apply RGB color filters itself
, just go to the picture settings menu and find something named like "RGB Mode".
post #1429 of 2167
Hello,
I've got a little problem with my UE40EH5300. I used Samsung AllShare at first but now I use Serviio - both work fine, but the Samsung Allshare software started to restart all the time (on the PC) so I changed it. Anyway I'm fine with the Serviio but I have another problem - this problem turns up every now and then. I had it with the Allshare as well, now with the Serviio it also happens. I don't know what causes it but it's not there permanently (although now It's been about 2 days since it started and still hasn't fixed itself). The problem is that when I open the allshare it is very slow - when I click to left/right/up/down (to change selection) it takes like 2 seconds until it switches - it's like some kind of lag. But the streaming is fine - I've had no problems with that even with 1080p the movies play without stopping for any buffering. The TV is connected directly with a LAN cable to 94mbps fiber-optic network so the internet is really fast and maybe this lag is from the TVs CPU or something like that I have no idea.. the firmware is the latest, tried updating it but there is no newer firmware. So does anyone else have that problem and how do you fix it? I can try resetting to factory settings but I don't wanna lose all my settings...
post #1430 of 2167
So I just picked up a 50EH5300fxza - it was an open item. I found the e-manual online, but was wondering if those who purchased a "new" TV had a manual included with your purchase. Like the older manuals that would list what each input was for, each setting, etc. Or is this e-manual all that was ever provided?

just curious.... thanks
post #1431 of 2167
Mine is a EH5300 as well and I had a manual in the box (it was also an open set - the TV was exhibit)
post #1432 of 2167
Someone a while back asked about enabling CEC control through the advanced menu on a UN40EH5000f. I just wanted to let them know it does work.

post #1433 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmm2112 View Post

So I just picked up a 50EH5300fxza - it was an open item. I found the e-manual online, but was wondering if those who purchased a "new" TV had a manual included with your purchase. Like the older manuals that would list what each input was for, each setting, etc. Or is this e-manual all that was ever provided?

just curious.... thanks

The manual included with a EH5000 is pretty slim: tells you a few things but mainly how to use the e-manual. The Samsung download is more extensive.
post #1434 of 2167
EDIT - I think i sorted out the Harmony issue -- darn "smart hub" button was throwing everything off **********

ok - so I have a Harmony 880 remote - I am having a heck of a time trying to get the features of the Sammy to work with that remote (smart hub, once using netflix using the play,pause, etc commands) -- so I figured ok, since I have really slimmed down my components since moving (only the TV and a blu ray player now) - I'll just use the sammy universal remote and program the blu-ray player to that remote and everyone will be happy. When I do into the universal setup all it recognizes is a "set top box" (which I dont have) --- so, since I'm the one that bought this as an open item with no manual, can anyone comment that is it possible to have the sammy control a blu ray player (sony S-370)? why is set top box only option listed (blu ray player is turned on), or should a factory reset be done -- and if so, how do I do that?

thanks again for any information. Things seemed a lot easier with a full home theater system - I thought pairing down would be a breeze for setup.
Edited by rmm2112 - 5/31/13 at 12:55pm
post #1435 of 2167
If your Blu-ray player supports CEC, it should be possible to control it directly from the TV remote.
post #1436 of 2167
Has anyone had problems with a 32 "EH5300? is heard but not seen anything, I can see (with a flashlight) the color panel works. Seems a problem with the lighting panel.

I searched but only found one review on amazon.com that had the same problem and sent it to warranty.

this "detail" happened today, this weekend I upgraded to the latest firmware (1031.4) by USB ... upgraded without knowing it had problems?

Greetings!
post #1437 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicrol123 View Post

Has anyone had problems with a 32 "EH5300? is heard but not seen anything, I can see (with a flashlight) the color panel works. Seems a problem with the lighting panel.

I searched but only found one review on amazon.com that had the same problem and sent it to warranty.

this "detail" happened today, this weekend I upgraded to the latest firmware (1031.4) by USB ... upgraded without knowing it had problems?

Greetings!

That's the back-light system malfunctioning, you should sent it to the warranty repair service ASAP.
post #1438 of 2167
I have 32EH5000 for about a month and yesterday I've noticed a greenish vertical line going from left to right while I watch tv channels. It just happens when I watch tv (SDTV), I havent noticed that while I watch movies from usb or playing xbox. Is there something I can do to fix this (maybe something isnt connected properly or something) or should I call the service?
post #1439 of 2167
I have a question for you guys with EH series; or in particular UN40EH5000FXZA sets. The firmware on my TV reports as 1017, the latest on the support site for my model is 1012. I've been trying to get a copy of the 1017 through Samsung for a while now and they all say that there isn't a 1017 and 1012 is the latest. I just got off the phone with a 'supervisor' who informed me that "the technicians have informed me that there is a bug where all EH series report the incorrect firmware initially installed on the TV, and even though yours says 1017, it is actually 1012 installed." I asked him how did I know this was true and that he wasn't just trying to blow me off. He basically couldn't give me an answer.

I just wanted to know, for those with EH series sets (and especially UN40EH500FXZA sets) who have not done a firmware upgrade, if your shipping firmware matches what would have been the shipping firmware for download on your products support site. Thanks.
post #1440 of 2167
My 32EH5000 claims to be 001023. I don't know if it might have done an over-the-air update, I certainly haven't done one by network or USB.
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